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Star Trek: Discovery. Series talk and discussion


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#361 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

And of course a tribble!

#362 Whirlygig

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

Hmmmm.... but wouldn't they have figured out what he was when they tried to meek him look human? And on that note... wouldn't a medical exam be standard upon return to duty ? Because wasnt a scan with a tricorder how McCoy unearthed one?

 

All I will say is if Section 31 (or some kind of temporal agents) wanted to fake/forge/fix/rig anything they needed to, I will assume they'd have the technology and inside information to be able to do it without regular old Starfleet personnel finding out, or the Klingons either.  Or they wouldn't have tried.

 

I'm not going to assume just because McCoy figured something out easily in an old episode/film, it means that in Discovery they can't have better technology to the point where that little plot device they used way back when is no longer a workable factor.



#363 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:36 PM

I'm not going to assume just because McCoy figured something out easily in an old episode/film, it means that in Discovery they can't have better technology to the point where that little plot device they used way back when is no longer a workable factor.

 

but... but... CANNON says!!!!  :roflmao:

 

Yeah ... we'll have to see how it plays out!



#364 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

BTW... don't forget... Lorca has a tribble!!!



#365 Alteran195

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 03:34 PM

Not so sure about that.

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#366 1701D

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

Im still convinced that Voq is Tyler and a spy working for the Klingons. I think Lorca will meet his fate by putting his trust in a klingon spy and a mutineer.

I think it will also explain why Klingons look so human in TOS. The dozen or so we saw in TOS were genetically altered to appear human.

I also think we will see the constitution class Enterprise in Discovery. I think its going to happen before the end of season 1.

I genuinely think we are actually watching the mirror universe version of Discovery. I think the mirror Episode will be the prime timeline episode of Discovery - it would explain every single departure from continuity - the changes in look.

That could also explain why Stamets seems so different and more positive about things.

#367 VorlonKosh

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:31 PM

It would explain the advancements in tech since they would have the defiant from the enterprise episode 'in a mirror darkly' to start from.



#368 1701D

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:34 PM

Could you imagine... Empress Sato turning up!

#369 Alteran195

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:33 PM

I dont think this is the Mirror Universe.

Theres no Terran Empire here, and the Federation didnt exist in the Mirror Universe.

I really hope that Lorca isnt from the Mirror Universe either because it would detract quite a bit of the interest with his character for me.

Having a damaged, PTSD suffering captain in the Prime timeline is more interesting than just your average evil Mirror Universe person.

Stamets could be a Mirror version of himself, or something like that, but not the entire show.

#370 Gothneo

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 07:11 PM

That was a pretty good episode, but it seems like it did very little to move the overall plot forward. We do learn some more about Stamets' unique condition... and it seems Mudds involvement in the show may be brought to a conclusion. 

 

I wouldn't say it was inspired though as we've seen a number of Trek episodes that use the "Time Loop" gimmick in a similar manner. 

 

Spoiler



#371 Whirlygig

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:07 PM



Stamis'

 

Spoiler

 

Update your crew roster, the spelling on that is 'Stamets'...  :)

 

Spoiler

 

I agree, this Mudd thing was a waste of time.  They did execute the episode a lot better than I feel they have in the past when it comes to time loops.  It had a quick pace, never felt like it was spoon feeding the situation too much, in fact I liked how someone already knew what was going on by the 2nd loop.  In that sense it was different from the similar TNG episode (which is one of my favorites) -- the problem wasn't figuring out they were in a loop, the problem was what could they do about it.

 

Also...I figured the internet would be up in arms today over what a Starfleet party looks like.  I kind of was...



#372 Gothneo

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:29 PM

 

Update your crew roster, the spelling on that is 'Stamets'...  :)

 

On it Cap'n!



#373 Whirlygig

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:14 AM

https://www.forbes.c...r/#6b22e6c01b37

Ouch! I'm with him, though... whenever I think about the spore drive crap the angrier I become so I try not to think about it...

Meanwhile the masses won't care, no matter how much that guy and I crow about it - not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Sci-fi has a lot of fans who don't care or know much about science. Just ask the series Fringe about its success and belovedness...the spore drive mumbo jumbo would fit right in in that universe. Nobody cared because "Walter was funny and sounded smart".

#374 Daysleeper

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:05 AM

Oh were it only for the spore drive. Unfortunately, Disco has so many countless problems. After the bs that was episode 7, I've decided to spend my time with something worthwhile instead. But I won't bother watching this terrible show any longer.

#375 MisterPL

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:32 AM

When did people become so uncomfortable with the fiction part of science-fiction?



#376 Alteran195

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

Oh were it only for the spore drive. Unfortunately, Disco has so many countless problems. After the bs that was episode 7, I've decided to spend my time with something worthwhile instead. But I won't bother watching this terrible show any longer.

I'm curious what was so BS about episode 7? It was a very Trek feeling time loop episode that was very well executed. 

 

I've seen a lot of people calling it Discovery's first traditional Trek episode, and I'd agree that it is the most Trek like episode we've gotten. 

 

As for the spore drive, it isn't any more magical than any of the other BS trek science that we've seen in the various series. Don't really get why some fans are having such an issue with it. 



#377 Whirlygig

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

As for the spore drive, it isn't any more magical than any of the other BS trek science that we've seen in the various series. Don't really get why some fans are having such an issue with it. 

 

There's a lot of BS Trek science.  A lot of it was confined to one episode or another as a plot device or what-have-you.  Other series-spanning things like teleportation are acknowledged as "budget saving" devices in their origin.  But this spore drive thing is not like that, and moreover it's not just plot critical, it's series-existence-justification-critical, spanning and driving the entire show which itself is supposedly integral to the entire canon/timeline after it.  Like the writers thought "I know, let's make a show and tout it as exploring some unexplored event, so exciting, such storytelling possibility" but the only story they apparently really wanted to tell behind all the smoke and mirrors was some made up crap about spore drives, couched in some cliche stuff about personal growth, duty, honor, blah.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I haven't soured on the show in sum total.  Don't be like some people around here and act like we can't have any criticism.  To say you can't criticize element X just because it existed in Trek before is a logical fallacy.

 

It's just one of those things where, WHY?  They chose to slather MORE BS science on top of existing BS science, and why?  They couldn't figure out a way to tell a cool story in this "sooooo interesting, tumultuous time for the Federation" that made use of the warp technology we already established/accepted?  They had to throw this junk in there, too?  WHY?  Maybe they couldn't really write an interesting story after all, without a macguffin, so they had to invent one.  That's really what the spore drive is in several episodes.  It's often the main thing propelling the storytelling forward, and the only thing creating setbacks (Mudd needs Stamets to complete plot to steal spore drive because hand-waving-pseudoscience...aaaaaand that's a wrap, great episode guys, you geniuses you!)...  Heck if it's that easy to write good television these days maybe I'm finally old and wise enough to jump into screenwriting.



#378 Gothneo

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:05 AM

When did people become so uncomfortable with the fiction part of science-fiction?

 

 

 

There's a lot of BS Trek science.  A lot of it was confined to one episode or another as a plot device or what-have-you.  Other series-spanning things like teleportation are acknowledged as "budget saving" devices in their origin.  But this spore drive thing is not like that, and moreover it's not just plot critical, it's series-existence-justification-critical, spanning the entire show and supposedly being integral to the entire canon/timeline after it.  Like the writers thought "I know, let's make a show and tout it as exploring some unexplored event, so exciting, such storytelling possibility" but the only story they apparently really wanted to tell behind all the smoke and mirrors was some made up crap about spore drives, couched in some cliche stuff about personal growth, duty, honor, blah.

 

It's just one of those things where, WHY?  They chose to slather MORE BS science on top of existing BS science, and why?  They couldn't figure out a way to tell a cool story in this "sooooo interesting, tumultuous time for the Federation" that made use of the warp technology we already established/accepted?  They had to throw this junk in there, too?  WHY?  Maybe they couldn't really write an interesting story after all, without a macguffin, so they had to invent one.  That's really what the spore drive is in several episodes.  The only thing propelling the storytelling forward, and the only thing creating setbacks (Mudd needs Stamets to complete plot to steal spore drive because hand-waving-pseudoscience...aaaaaand that's a wrap, great episode guys!)

 

Ok.. I was gonna reply.. but 'gig... you summed up my thoughts. 

 

And I'll add this was a huge problem for me on the JJ movies too.

 

Ultimately the question will be is it re-watchable... I find other trek series have different degrees of this.



#379 Alteran195

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:37 AM

Never said you couldn't criticize the show, just that I don't see the issue with the spore drive. 

 

What if this was a series focused on Excelsior and its experimental transwarp drive, and it was powered by something equally crazy? We know the drive failed, but we really don't know anything about it or how it worked. 

 

The spore drive is just going to end up similar to that, except we actually know how to works. 

 

It really isn't any different than the magic dilithium crystals that power/control the warp drive. Warp Drive has just been a lot more fleshed out. 

 

I still think the story is going to end up being something we've seen referenced in the past like they said, whether that be Lorca becoming Garth of Izar, or the spores being linked to Omega in some way resulting in the destruction of subspace that was referenced in Voyager, or something else. 



#380 Gothneo

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 11:02 AM

To me... the spore drive stuff just smacks of being a bit too lazy on whats probable... we know now how improbable warp tech is... but at time (in the 60's) there were credible thoughts about such tech. 

 

Since faster than light speed isn't really possible... and even close to speed of light has all types of general relativity issues... what a great update would be that warp tech works by bending space, pinching two parts of the universe together (like a worm hole) allowing space ships to "hop" through. how big of warp you can make will dictate the number of "hops" needed to get to your destination. 

 

In that regard, BSGs re-imaging is much better. Still... I get that its pretty much canon and thus it is what it is... but they could have used something like that as the theoretical "new way to fly" because we have to imagine that were bound to hit a wall somehow that makes the tech completely unusable. 

 

But I can criticize it as a plot mech, and move on..  as you say there is other canon just as absurd  I can and just did crit it too






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