981 replies to this topic

[Alteran195]

Star Trek has shown on multiple occasions that that isnt the case for every single Starfleet Officer in the universe.

Thats what Starfleet and the Federation strive for, but it isnt always possible. Especially during a time of war.

[VulcanFanatic]

Starfleet doesn't throw out it's discipline and morals and regulations out the window in time of war. And maybe there have been examples of Starfleet Officers not being as honorable and disciplined as they should,and they usually pay the price for it too. An example here and there doesn't excuse an entire crew or the whole of Starfleet in the discovery show being prideful dicks that make rash decisions that get people killed.

[Alteran195]

The entire crew isn’t like that, Lorca is and Landry was. I’d be very surprised if this season ends well for Lorca.

Stamets sounds like he was pretty much forced into his current assignment to do something with his research he doesn’t want to. His attitude is very reminiscent of David Marcus in Wrath of Khan.

Michaels recommendation to attack the Klingons was the same recommendation Spock made with the Romulans in Balance of Terror. The difference is Spock didn’t suffer from PTSD from a traumatic childhood event that made Michaels decision making at that time questionable.

How she acted in the most recent episode showed that she does believe in the Starfleet ideals that you mentioned, and I guarantee we’ll see more on that in the future.

This is a story told over 15 episodes, not one. Everything isn’t resolved in 45 minutes. There is going to be a clash between typical Starfleet/Federation ideals, and Lorca and his yes men.

[VulcanFanatic]

Yeah, she believes in Starfleet ideals alright, nerve pinch her Captain because she doesn't agree with her. Sorry but I'm not buying this BS.
Go ahead and enjoy this garbage all you want to, hopefully it won't last more than one season. I've watched the last episode I'm going to of this travesty. I don't expect to ever see real Star Trek again, Hollywood doesn't seem to make anything with a optimistic view of the future anymore.

[Gothneo]

And star fleet draws from its citizens... members of the federation, which have time and again shown they aren't necessarily some elevated form of humanity.... I see the federation as people that strive to do the right thing... but often they fall into similar traps as people do these days.

[Gothneo]

Also... Lorca seems to be a man that knows how to walk the tightrope, bending by and pushing the rules but not necessarily breaking them... that type of leadership has its place.

[Alteran195]

No no, humans can’t have flaws in the future, they have to be perfect for it to be real Star Trek. They can’t possibly be overwhelmed by emotion, and make a bad choice that they later clearly regret.

[s8film40]

No no, humans cant have flaws in the future, they have to be perfect for it to be real Star Trek. They cant possibly be overwhelmed by emotion, and make a bad choice that they later clearly regret.

I can accept that characters in the future, even the utopian future of Star Trek can have flaws. The question is why are they choosing to tell that story. Why have they chosen to go backwards to a period of time where there is war. Star Trek in the past chose to shine the light on the positive and tell those stories. The negative things were often referenced to show that they had gotten through those things and that they had learned. Sure the writers would occasionally fall back on the easy conflict stories but it was more often than not a way to show the positive that came out of that. I guess for me even if I get past all the canon and time period stuff the thing is its just not the story in the Star Trek universe that I want to see told. Thats what Star WARS is for and Ive never been a big fan of that. I watch Star TREK for the journey and exploration.

[Gothneo]

basic exploration should be pretty boring and uneventful. They have to add antigonist to make it entertaining!

[Alteran195]

They’ve said this story will show them getting to that utopian future of TOS, but we don’t really know what the specifics of what this story will show.

Sure, they said it’s about the war, but we haven’t really seen much of it since the first episode. The most recent episode showed Discovery jumping in to save a mining colony, but the majority of the episode was about studying Ripper, and getting the spore drive working.

I really am waiting for Discovery is over before deciding if the story is worth telling or not. Yes, I’m clearly enjoying the show, but I haven’t made any final verdicts on it yet.

[VulcanFanatic]

No no, humans cant have flaws in the future, they have to be perfect for it to be real Star Trek. They cant possibly be overwhelmed by emotion, and make a bad choice that they later clearly regret.

Of course they can have flaws and have emotion and make bad choices but this show let's those things rule them rather than just be an issue they deal with from time to time.

[Alteran195]

She literally lost everything. She watched her mentor die, and had everything she worked for rightly taken away because of a horrible decision she made.

Shes blamed for starting a war thats killed thousands, and even seems to accept that responsibility even though it wasnt entirely her fault.

That isnt something you just get over, and deal with from time to time. Especially when other people bring it up a lot.

Michaels situation seems pretty realistic and believable to me.

[VulcanFanatic]

Theyve said this story will show them getting to that utopian future of TOS, but we dont really know what the specifics of what this story will show.

Sure, they said its about the war, but we havent really seen much of it since the first episode. The most recent episode showed Discovery jumping in to save a mining colony, but the majority of the episode was about studying Ripper, and getting the spore drive working.

I really am waiting for Discovery is over before deciding if the story is worth telling or not. Yes, Im clearly enjoying the show, but I havent made any final verdicts on it yet.

They are only 10 years away from the time of Kirk and Spock. The so called utopian future of Star Trek should have been arrived at already by the time that Earth ventured out to explore strange new world's.People aren't going to change that drastically in 10 years. That's just rediculous.

[robster]

And yet,it's still JUST a tv show,and I'm happy with that,lol!

[MisterPL]

Clearly some people are happier watching a show with zero conflict. They should stick to Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

[Gothneo]

There seems to be some method to the character development. The writers have straight up said that when it seems they have taken an exception to cannon.. in most cases it's for a real purpose which will be revealed eventually. We just need to let the story unfold to see if it's true or not.

ENT had MACOS and even ST beyond tied into that theme.

I bet an honest review of even TOS episodes will show a good number are based directly on moral flaw or failings of human federation citizens. The 2nd pilot (where no man has gon before) starts off right away with a theme of ultimate power ultimately corrupts. Both Spock and Kirk even embrace the old adage get rid of what you don't understand... mostly because mitchel gives into his human failings. It's a great episode... but in no way makes me believe in some human utopia... but better? Yes.

[s8film40]

basic exploration should be pretty boring and uneventful. They have to add antigonist to make it entertaining!

 

Clearly some people are happier watching a show with zero conflict. They should stick to Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

You can have conflict without war. You can have conflict in the process of exploration. It requires a greater level of creativity. The easiest form of storytelling is a direct good vs. bad, building a story around a war is the laziest approach possible. This is often the primary focus in video games and children cartoons because the concept can be presented very clearly with little effort. 

 

Take for example the fan favorite TNG episode "Inner Light". It's a basic exploration episode. They encounter a strange probe and it injects memories into Picard. It's boring exploration and there's no immediate apparent conflict. They simply deal with the probe, learn what it is and move on. The conflict as we find out is far deeper. It's not just a story of those are the bad guys and we have to beat them. The conflict is within the mind of Picard as he deals with a sudden lifetime of memories and has to face the fact that none of them were real. We as the viewer instead of being excited that the good guys won, think to ourselves what would that experience be like and how would it affect us. So it last longer with us, it leaves something to think about rather than "yay, the good guys won, what's next".

[Gothneo]

Fer sure inner light is fantastic... and there are many other good ones that don't succumb to the plot devices you've described.

There is an entire genre of war films and even TV shows... they like anything else some good some bad... or maybe you don't like war conflict in your sci-fi ? But look at something like children of men which is arguably a sci-fi tale set during war.

If your saying you don't like war in Star Trek... ok but then they should figure out how to do it all w/o phasers and photon torpedo.

[s8film40]

I think what Im saying is I dont want that to be the driving force behind the whole story. Sure theres going to be conflict and you occasionally need to have some threatening bad guys. This overarching theme of war is just not very interesting especially in a prequel. Its like watching Titanic, we all know its going to sink were just waiting around for it to happen.

[Alteran195]

We know what the outcome of the war is, Starfleet doesnt lose.

But this ship and crew are an unknown. We have no idea what their fate is, or how this story will unfold. Its a completely new story, and well see how it ultimately fits into Treks canon when its over.