Star Trek: Discovery. Series talk and discussion
#201
Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:01 PM
This is definitely Star Trek: Bleak. I hate to say but I kind of cheered what happened to that person.
#202
Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:27 AM
Good and bad for me thus far...
The Good:
- The story, thus far, is bring up some darn good moral dilemmas, which I think many people see as a hallmark of Trek.
- This really is a new story... e.g though you can see "shades" of influence, thus far it seem pretty unique to me.
- I rather like Lorca and Burnham and they have been developing them nicely.
The Bad
- having to read lengthy Klingon translations in sub-text really throws me out of the experience... and I just can't take the Klingons seriously. In person they seem clumsy and artificial with all the prosthetics.
- The use of the creature did seem a bit obvious.
- There are really really obvious contradictions in the story already.
My prediction is that in the end... everyone is going to die... and with them their secrets... but not before they manage to deal a blow to the Klingons that brings them to the bargaining table.
#203
Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:49 AM
#204
Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:23 AM
#205
Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:14 AM
It's definitely a darker chapter in Trek history and I think that's one of the reasons I'm liking it so much.
Maybe... but it certainly is true to the dark aspects that DS9 introduced.. and were touched on even in VOY and ENT. But I don't think its untrue to, or fails to mesh with that bit of Cannon.
I really really like the style of the Uniforms... and... notice that while they don't have replicators like TNG... they do have some type of advanced additive manufacturing.. e.g. 3-D printing! Burhnam "Printed" up her uniform! I thought that was a nice touch!
#206
Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:20 AM
You mean like the Starfleet officers aboard the Equinox did?Enslaving another race to act as a conduit for travel around the Galaxy? Wow, reminds me a little of Encounter at Farpoint where a being was being enslaved by another race and the Enterprise set them free of their captivity. This show is not real Star Trek.
Ya, definitely not something some Starfleet officers could do in desperate times. Not at all.
#207
Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:24 PM
It has very serious Star Trek themes running through it. Its almost a show about how important the message the other Star Treks promote.
To get there though I think this show is very anti-Roddenberry. To prove that the ideas Star Trek has shown us over its 50 years is critical to our own development in the real world and I think Star Trek: Discovery is that show. The problem is, it has to go to a place where the question has to be asked, the question that has been there since we knew what this show was going to be; do we really need a Star Trek like Discovery, or is it ok to go back to a type of Star Trek show weve seen before?
So yes it is Star Trek, but its a series about a fight between our world today; lets destroy the enemy at any cost and science; lets stop, lets listen, lets approach this in a peaceful way and discover rather than kill. Its not showing you the obvious version of Star Trek where humanity is the good guy on the Enterprise, holding hands and going out into the unknown fixing problems with other cultures, its showing our own human flaws and hopefully by the end of this chapter, the end of the 15 episodes, lead by Burnham, this will be a crew that embodies the very best of humanity, Inclusion and Roddenberrys philosophy.
#208
Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:35 PM
It was nice to see something happen in the Klingon plot that indicates there may be more to those scenes in the future than rave scene lighting and awful dialog and costumes...
Still into it for now. Have complaints though!
Oh yeah...I was quite happy and relieved when commamder whats her face got what was coming to her. Also, the effects at the beginning with the uniform were just lame IMO. Didn't need to see that or spend the money on that sequence...
#209
Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:42 PM
Agree with others on the "Spore Drive" ... its more sci-fi-fantasy than sci-fi.
If we follow cannon... the good and the bad of it... we know section 31 exists in the future... so it doesn't just come into being... as explained its there all along.
We got shades of a captain willing to do anything it takes in ENT... so we know that darkness is in the past too!
TOS and TNG gloss over a lot... A huge premise of VOY was that not everything everywhere in the federation was all roses... and even TOS and TNG touched on that at times.
I guess where I'm going with this is I see a real reflection of current day politics and world events in this story... one aspect is how the Klingons basically view the federation like the Borg... coming to assimilate them... which could be a juxtaposition for what many view as western cultural imperialism.
Traditional Trek gave a view of the federation as utopia and used alien encounters to make moral and social commentary on humanity indirectly. Discovery and even some of its predecessors like DS9, VOY and ENT, were slowly pulling back that veil to include humanity and the federation as flawed and to make direct commentary on humanities flaws.
Or ... maybe I'm over thinking it all ;-)
#210
Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:37 PM
I guess where I'm going with this is I see a real reflection of current day politics and world events in this story... one aspect is how the Klingons basically view the federation like the Borg... coming to assimilate them... which could be a juxtaposition for what many view as western cultural imperialism.
Traditional Trek gave a view of the federation as utopia and used alien encounters to make moral and social commentary on humanity indirectly. Discovery and even some of its predecessors like DS9, VOY and ENT, were slowly pulling back that veil to include humanity and the federation as flawed and to make direct commentary on humanities flaws.
Or ... maybe I'm over thinking it all ;-)
I think this is the problem with Discovery. It shows flaws in humanity.
Well, In the future humanity would of got through all of their petty differences. Thats a nice future to strive for and why Star Trek was so popular. Star Trek: Discovery isnt that, its a glimpse into our present through the eyes of the future and thats really where Discovery kind of fails for me.
Its great, Im enjoying the story but for it to be Star Trek, it needs to say; the present has its problems, were going to explore those problems but as for humanity, we get there, we succeed and this is what we could be if we worked together despite our differences.
#211
Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:57 PM
Ok.. but the cracks in showing the flaws directly in humanity in trek started in DS9... pretty much in the Pilot Cisco is shown to be "Damaged"... actually maybe even a bit in some episodes of TOS and TNG... though I wouldn't say it was a theme.
The truth is that even in the future people have pain, suffering, heartbreak.. etc. so why not express it in Trek? If one dislikes Discovery for this, then you need to throw out everything after TNG... which I think some people have espoused to.
#212
Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:04 PM
#213
Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:47 PM
Ok.. but the cracks in showing the flaws directly in humanity in trek started in DS9... pretty much in the Pilot Cisco is shown to be "Damaged"... actually maybe even a bit in some episodes of TOS and TNG... though I wouldn't say it was a theme.
The truth is that even in the future people have pain, suffering, heartbreak.. etc. so why not express it in Trek? If one dislikes Discovery for this, then you need to throw out everything after TNG... which I think some people have espoused to.
Youre absolutely right! Pain, suffering, heartbreak is human and should be explored in Star Trek, But DS9 and VGR had first the luxury of being an expansion of the TNG universe and second in all of the 24th century shows as well as Enterprise, there was always a sense of levity, unity and family and optimism. It wasnt all war, it wasnt all bleak, there was always hope
Discovery may not end up being bleak or distopian and may end up being the perfect Star Trek show but i dont know if this story and the way its being told, is really necessary?
I keep going back to Doctor Who as an example here but I think its relevant.
Its not that Discovery is a bad show, its not. Its not even bad Star Trek but If Doctor Who were told as a serialised series like Discovery is, would it still hold true to what you want from a new doctor who series? Id have to say no because it becomes something fundamentally different.
From day 1, Star Trek was episodic Television that was about a crew of 7, that experienced pain, heartbreak and suffering, but always worked together to overcome an external force that involved moral dilemma reflecting the issues we deal with in real life. In every series though, the crew of the Enterprise or Voyager or Deep space Nine, they were what we should aspire to being. A model for humanity.
Yes Discoverys crew is diverse, yes they are interesting characters, but they are flawed, unlikeable human beings from the 21st century (with some exception), from our world today, not the 23rd or 24th and thats the problem. Its an interesting argument to have; This is Star Trek, it has Star Trek themes running through it but at the same time its not Star Trek, its a show that reflects a lot of Star Trek but it is something else entirely. Whether it evolves into Star Trek... thats another argument.
#214
Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:13 PM
I dunno... the more I learn about the Discovery crew... the more I like them.
I kinda like Lorca... and I like Buhnam too. Even Stamets is growing on me.
#215
Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:22 PM
Burnham has also grown on me, as has Stamets. Stamets attitude is pretty understandable given his circumstances.
#216
Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:52 PM
https://m.imgur.com/a/6HZB4
Really can’t wait to see Eaglemoss’s version.
#217
Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:57 AM
Also we saw some of this very same disfunction in VOY with the integration of the Marquee and Starfleet.
Discovery may not be a Necessary Star Trek Story... which is probably a polite way of saying they are crap... but at the moment its all we're getting... which of course doesn't forgive any sloppy story telling.
There are plenty of Trek stories I don't think were necessary... like Nemesis... Into Darkness... the whole temporal Cold War... stuff like Spock's Brain... it goes on... but we take what were given and then try to find the gems.
Part of the brilliance of the Dr Who franchise is that Dr re-encranates... so your not tied to a single actor incarnation... people have a fav Dr, but the franchise isn't anchored around a Shatner or Nimoy.
#218
Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:10 AM
Part of the brilliance of the Dr Who franchise is that Dr re-incarnates... so your not tied to a single actor incarnation... people have a fav Dr, but the franchise isn't anchored around a Shatner or Nimoy.
But wasnt that the brilliance to Star Trek?
The crew doesnt regenerate but a new crew takes to a new Enterprise, to boldly go where no one has been before...
Whats wrong with that formula?
Discovery is great, Im enjoying it and the characters are growing on me. Saru, Burnham, Tilly, Stamets. but theres still a nagging feeling that theyve changed too much and for what?
#219
Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:50 AM
Not so much... there is a steadfast group of fans that say Star Trek is the Enterprise, Capt Kirk, Mr Spock etc.
Basically thats what the JJ reboots followed... and why I think many fans really like fan fiction like Trek Continues... JJ-verse had other issues for some fans, but it does pull Kirk, and the crew of the enterprise back together.
I'm not saying I agree... I liked shows like DS9 and VOY that fleshed out the broader Federation... but I'm guessing fans that don't like them because they tend to show more about "how the sausage is made".
#220
Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:52 PM
Star Trek is about more than Kirk and Spock.Abrams going back to Kirk and Spock showed me that he didn't understand Star Trek. Star Trek is about an evolved Human race that lived through and learned from World war 3, and became a United human race that no longer is enslaved to greed, crippled by disease or engaged in war. They now, along with other races from other world's, explore strange new world's and new civilizations. They are not out to conquer, enslave other races and have strict rules and regulations about contacting and interfering in other world's affairs.Starfleet officers are supposed to honorable,highly trained , ethical and are supposed to make well thought out, wise decisions. Star Trek is supposed to be an optimistic view of the future. Discovery is a definite fail.Not so much... there is a steadfast group of fans that say Star Trek is the Enterprise, Capt Kirk, Mr Spock etc.
Basically thats what the JJ reboots followed... and why I think many fans really like fan fiction like Trek Continues... JJ-verse had other issues for some fans, but it does pull Kirk, and the crew of the enterprise back together.
I'm not saying I agree... I liked shows like DS9 and VOY that fleshed out the broader Federation... but I'm guessing fans that don't like them because they tend to show more about "how the sausage is made".
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