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The Official Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion


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#121 Whirlygig

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

Kirk and spock intentionally kill Kennedy. Sounds bad to me. Your mileage may very.

Based on other information in the article link Gothneo provided, it sounds like "Kennedy" is brought on board with the idea after they show him the future that results from his assassination and presumably does not result otherwise.  Call it derivative, call it unnecessary, call it a plain old rip-off of ideas direct from TOS, but in the end, if handled right (played straight and compassionately), I could picture it making a heckuva story -- and with "space race" optimism at the very center, to boot.  Although it may have still been "too soon" if done as a followup to TMP.



#122 Gothneo

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

In general, I'm  a bit fascinated by the numbers over all... not really trying to read too much into what they say about a particular segment or population. 

 

My rational is a bit as follows:

 

1. The U.S. is (typically) the largest single market for most movies. Thus movies targeted at the U.S. have a certain "domestic" expectation.

 

2. The sum of all other markets are actually greater than the U.S. market, thus they are as important, if not more important than the U.S. market.

 

So, a really healthy movie should have a strong showing in the single largest market, but also must appeal to the entire market. What I think this means (and I really could be wrong about this) is that the total foreign sales should really be some value larger than the domestic U.S. sales for a movie to be considered a world wide hit.

 

STID, seems to be on this trend with Foreign Sales exceeding the Domestic. They are good, just not great. When I look at the numbers of something like Fast & Furious 6, it really exceeds these expectations, its a monster and seems to be much more popular with foreign as well as domestic markets. 

 

This suggests that maybe this is the type of movie that appeals to the largest segment as well as the world-wide segment.

 

So I guess the question is why is that? Why is something like Fast & Furious 6 so much more popular than STID?



#123 Whirlygig

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:20 PM

Why is something like Fast & Furious 6 so much more popular than STID?

 

For years I've been trying to figure out why every movie in that franchise is so much more popular than repeatedly beating one's head against a brick wall.



#124 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:32 PM

Kirk and spock intentionally kill Kennedy. Sounds bad to me. Your mileage may very.


Yes, without the context that Roddenberry had in mind being included with your statement about his story, it does sound bad.If the story included a time traveler who traveled back and prevented the Kennedy Assassination from happening and therefore changed the future in some extraordinarily negative way, then restoring history to its proper path sounds Like the right thing to do, even though it would be a gut wrenching thing for Kirk and Spock to do. Remember Edith Keeler? Remember how hard that was for Kirk to allow her death to happen when he could have stopped it, and how dramatic and emotional that was? I think that could have been a very powerful story, but I think at the time Roddenberry proposed it, Kennedys death was still too fresh in the peoples minds to accept it.

#125 Gothneo

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:57 AM

You know, the production quality of the opening scene was really quite stunning. It kinda made me wish they spent more time actually walking about and exploring Nibiru



#126 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:37 PM

Yes, I think The opening sequence was an example of the awesome effects this movie did display, but the lack of substance such as an explanation as to why the ship needed to be submerged in water as opposed to just orbiting the planet that makes more sense to me. Less opportunity for a pre first contact society to see you. I think the emerging from the water scene was just another attempt to duplicate the majestic Enterprise scenes of TWOK Mutara nebula scenes, which just seems like another cheap ripoff of TWOK, just like most of the rest of the movie was.

#127 Gothneo

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:06 AM

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that the scene doesn't feel forced. You don't out run Volcanic eruptions due to the pyroclastic flow, so the entire sequence of leading the populace away is contrived.

 

But the depiction of Nibiru is stunning, and the contrast of color amazing, which is why I was saying I would have like to see them actually explore and interact with the populace more.



#128 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

 
But the depiction of Nibiru is stunning, and the contrast of color amazing, which is why I was saying I would have like to see them actually explore and interact with the populace more.

Yes, in that respect, I agree as well. It would be great to meet some new races of beings and explore new planets never seen before in Star Trek. The red hues of the planet were indeed fascinating!

#129 Gothneo

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

A friend of mine, who is not a Star Trek fan by any means, but saw the 2009 movie went to see STID the other day, so I asked him what he thought.

 

"A deeply flawed movie" was his opening phrase. "However, very fun and with some serious editing it could be a good movie".

 

He continued to go on to say they could have gotten rid of the bulk of the cast, keeping only Kirk, Spock, Khan and Dr. Marcus, as the rest really served no purpose. In other words, they tried to stuff too many cast members into it, and the plot was strained trying to make up stuff for them to do.

 

He loved Cumberbatch's Khan, and commented that he felt Pine was still to "young" and wasn't truly believable as a starship captain. He's normally a fan of Urban, but thought he wasn't given any good dialog and what he did have wasn't acted well.

 

He summarized by saying he had to remind himself he was in a theater and couldn't make "Mystery Theater 3000" comments out loud... though he wanted to because there were allot of silly scenes.  But it was a good effort, and better than most movies out today. He gave it a 60 out of 100.



#130 s8film40

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

Levar Burton made a comment about it.

http://www.tmz.com/2...erry-jj-abrams/



#131 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

If another Star Trek movie comes out, i sure hope they get new writers and a Director that actually put the Star Trek back in Star Trek. Levar Burton was right, there is no Gene Roddenberry in this movie at all. Pine is not credible as Captain Kirk and the list of flaws goes on and on. Either make it right or dont make it at all.



#132 Gothneo

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:39 AM

There will def be another Star Trek Movie. Thus far, STID ranks #4 in the list of best grossing films for 2013. They won't miss the opportunity to have a movie for the 50th's in 2016.

 

Besides, STID, is considered a Commercial success.  It sounds like JJ will be off on Star Wars, where he always wanted to be, but unfortunately, Orci and Kurtzman may be back.

 

http://critic.thedai...versary-sequel/



#133 Guest_1701_*

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

I think Orci and Kurtzman will be back to write but direct??? That article suggests they'd be helming the project?? I can't see Paramount giving their biggest and most precious franchise to men who've not had the experience of directing big money blockbusters. 

 

I don't have a problem with Orci and Kurtzman returning to write, Lindeloff I don't really care for.

 

I would love to see any one of these Directors do it: 

 

Joss Whedon (Marvel may tie him down)

Christopher Nolan (directing a sci-fi movie for Paramount atm, is that a hint from Paramount that they are considering him?)

Brian Singer (if it's going to be a fan-boy then why not Singer)

Brad Bird (JJ Abrams collaborator on MI:Ghost Protocol)

 

Duncan Jones (Director of MOON, could do great things with Star Trek as long as he was helped by Abrams)

 

I would just like for once, someone to direct the next Star Trek movie that in the interviews promoting the project say's he/she grew up watching Star Trek and was inspired by Star Trek and loved Star Trek more than he/she did Star Wars. 



#134 Redshirt#7

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:28 AM

I went to see the film only yesterday, and although it was a good Sci-Fi film, it wasn’t Trek. I agree with the comments made by Le Var, VulcanFanatic, Daysleeper, and Wildcard among others, so I won't beat a dead horse over it. I will say however that I hate the Starship Troopers esqe Dress Uniforms, and I think the Klingon's should of stuck to their Samurai Armour, and the story was less than great to say the least, although I did like Section 31 being in there, as DS9 is my favourite series with TOS. Maybe him going to Star Wars isn’t such a bad thing, as from the interviews he seems like a perfect match for Lucas...



#135 Gothneo

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:38 PM

I think you have an interesting list 1701, and I agree, I think Orci and Kurtzman will be back, though I personally would like Manny Coto to take a stab at the next Trek movie. 

 

Seth McFarlane has expressed an interest, but his writing style is a bit more satirical and he hasn't done much that suggests he'd be a good match.

 

Bird, seems similar to McFarlane in the sense that his credits are mostly animation. some good stuff to be sure, but I don't know how directing animation translates to live action?

 

Duncan Jones, might be a really interesting choice! I really liked Moon, and it had a message, but its pretty much all he's done. 

 

Nolan, would be another interesting choice. The Prestige and Dark Knight are two fantastic efforts, and while I though Inception was a bit overly elaborate, it worked and was well done. In fact, I had high hopes for Man of Steel, because I thought he was directing or wrote it, but he was only the exe producer. 

 

Whedon I actually think would do a fantastic job with Star Trek. Firefly/Serenity are cult classics. And I like that he can give a fresh modern take on one of the bards classics, like much ado about nothing. His writing cred may be stronger than his directing cred as cabin in the woods is really a fresh take on horror movies. In fact I normally don't watch those types of movies, but the high critical praise made me curious, and it really was something different then I had expected. Someone that can take some Shakespeare, wrap it in blanket of Gene Roddenberry and knows how to deliver exciting action like Avengers seems like a formula for success. 



#136 bgiles73

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:51 PM

Man of Steel was awesome! Christopher Nolan may have produced, but Zack Snyder's directing is truly epic! I also very much loved 300 and Watchmen. I don't doubt that another director can slip into JJ's chair and make an epic Star Trek movie. Different directing styles is what will keep the franchise from getting stagnant again. It probably wouldn't hurt to jump around the different generations in Star Trek. I bet Tom Hardy would be awesome as a young Picard in command of the Stargazer in the JJ-verse!

#137 Gothneo

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

Was it? I really wanted to see it, but because it got such bad critical reviews, my buds wont go to it with me. I actually rented "Superman Returns" from my local library to try and watch it again, and it got pretty good critical reviews, but while it may be well acted, the plot is quite a bore!

 

Man of Steel looked like good summer action fun.  I might have to go see it myself.



#138 bgiles73

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:35 PM

In much the same way as Star Trek and Batman has been rebooted, so has Superman. Unlike Superman Returns, Henry Cavill wasn't cast to simply fill Christopher Reeves boots and cape. I'm sorry, Brandon Routh, I enjoyed your take as Superman, but it truly was just a rehash of Superman 1 and 2. "Man of Steel" makes Superman relevant, exciting and fresh! I am very happy that they have already green lit a sequel, and I can't wait to see what characters might make it in the movie. I've been trying to think of who I would like to see cast as Lex Luthor! I'm sure we will get to see characters like Darkseid and Brainiac in future movies too.




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