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AskDST #237: Star Trek!


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#61 Alteran195

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:30 AM

 
I strongly disagree with this. Whilst there are obvious exceptions due to the screen time a  ship has been given and the popularity/recognition that ship has had within a series or a movie, as toys/models (and perhaps as characters themselves) Star Trek ships are vastly more popular than the flesh and blood characters within the shows.


I feel like this is especially true with Voyager and the NX-01. In trek fandom both of those shows aren't super popular and a lot of people don't care for the characters but love the ships.

#62 weyoun_9

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 03:01 PM

I'm also not sure this rule applies to the Voyager ship and crew, since the closest attempt to do anything Voyager in the 7" line was a 7 of 9 included in the ill-fated Borg line. If a "first wave" with Janeway, EMH, 7 of 9 and, say, Tuvok was offered, I think the response would have been different. There was also mounting frustration at that time of production delays, which I'm certain had an influence on pre-orders for items such as the Borg line, Chapel, Rand, the Salt Vampire, etc. Oh, and something about the economy. ;) I realize this is an old and well-argued point, but I mention it to support the idea that...

 

...just because a previous item from a Trek series was not successful five plus years ago doesn't mean the market wouldn't support it now. Especially the captain, the title ship, or other popular characters. (Sidebar...Kale Mulgrew is hot right now with Orange is the New Black. Seems like a no-brainer to try Voyager again right now)



#63 Jay K

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:11 PM

If shown evidence, I'm all for being proved wrong when I say this (nothing 'single-minded' about it). But, like you guys are saying, it's my feeling that sales between action figures and model ships aren't related at all, and just because I don't collect figures, doesn't mean I don't pay attention.
I remember reading that the TNG+ figures didn't sell as well as expected, and certainly no where near the TOS+film figures. Yet, HOW many re-issues of the Enterprise's D and E have we had now? The D has been made 2-3 times now, and the E has had the original run, the battle-damaged version, the Nemesis version and a First Contact version. Surely, if the ships were only selling as well as the figures, there wouldn't be so many new/altered versions coming out? And then, what about the Enterprise B - a one-movie ship - getting an alternative version (battle-damaged), as well as the Klingon Bird of Prey getting several, almost as many as the Enterprise-E?

I thought the reason for re-issuing ships, was to also help with the costs of producing a brand new ship. Well if these ships aren't selling, what's the point in bringing them out again, and again?

 

As for the 'new' ships (not just re-issues), there's apparently two on the way, and the Excelsior isn't one of those 'two'. I say that, because that's what I've read either here from DST Zach, or from Chuck on an askDST. Stuff I've also read here from Zach, or from Chuck via ask DST:

Voyager isn't being considered and isn't in the next two.
The Enterprise C, for the same reason.
Non-hero ships such as the Akira class, or Prometheus class, are too risky - therefore, not on the list.

No Alien ships are part of the next line-up of ships.

When taking all that into consideration, that really does only leave the Reliant (Khan's ship - very important), and the Defiant. The Defiant is now not part of the next two, so that leaves me baffled in terms of what I've read from those people at the company. Either Zach isn't well informed on the ships (0% chance), or one of those things listed above has changed. Thus why I said that I'd love to have a little update every month on the future of the line. The reason we're not flat-out told what's coming next, is (according to Zach) because it might cause some people to skip a ship they might've bought, only to wait for the one they want. I'd say that to anyone who actually considers buying these ships, that that's in actual fact a very small percent - certainly not people in the fan base or collecting communities. Would there really be any harm in Chuck typing up a single paragraph in the monthly Trek/Sci-fi Q&A's, containing little snippets of basic information? I understand that it's good to tease, but based off of all the information that I alone have read over the last year alone, I'd thought there was a good chance that my favourite ship would finally be getting made. Also based off of what I'd read, there's no WAY anyone could say, "well that's your own fault for getting your hopes up", because reading the list above, how could it not have been the Reliant and Defiant (please, correct me if you feel there was any other ship I might not have considered, which would fit in with that information)?

 

So yeah, I'm thoroughly confused and, as of late, disappointed. One little snippet a month on the status of future projects - literally, information no more revealing than "One's an Alien ship", or "There's now no Alien ships, we've chosen to go with another", as well as clarity between 'new' ships, and 're-issues' - would be MOST welcome. I feel I've been extremely loyal to this line, passing through both companies (AA and DST), and believe me, I'm grateful that there's a company out there making Star Trek ships, but having bought so much in regards to the Trek Tek and ships, I'd just like a little more clarity on what's to come. You won't see me getting pissy about delays, I'm insanely patient, and if it means the final product is better (BoP and B, anyone?), then so much the better. But having let myself get excited and now let down, by nothing more than piecing together hints here and there, well, my hopes will be firmly kept in check in the future. Also, I'm not buying any more products from the Original Series. I bought myself one of each (i.e. one Phaser, one 1701 etc), but then bought some duplicates and variants, and part of the reason for that, was that yes, I felt I needed to support this company, for the toys are amazing and put a huge smile on my face, and the thought of getting TNG+ era Trek Tek, and a model of the Defiant in the future, was worth it. Well, no longer. Don't get me wrong, I'll be first in line for any NEW items from these ranges in the future (Excelsior alone, jesus, can't wait!), but in regards to buying an extra one to support the company, I'm calling time on that. I feel I've more than contributed to the cause in that way.

 

EDIT: proof read it, then clicked accept, but wow, that post was huge. My apologies. lol



#64 Alteran195

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

One of those things must have changed, maybe an alien ship is in the works now? I don't know if I'd like that or not since the Defiant should come before any alien ship left in trek that's big enough to be made by DST. I also would hope it would compliment the other ship coming out, like the BoP compliments the B/Excelsior (I kind of think the Excelsior was the ship that was supposed to come first since it's the Undiscovered Country version and so was the initial BoP, but I don't know for sure) maybe the Klingon Battle cruiser from the TOS/TMP era?

I don't know, I was also basing my ship assumptions on those same hints from the AskDSTs and the Defiant and Reliant were indeed the only ships left that could have been made. I wonder if we'll get a concrete answer at this point as to what's changed or not, I doubt it since they've been so secretive up until now but it would possibly help with some of the disappointment.

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:48 AM

It's keeping Khan a secret from fans promoting Into Darkness all over again. Companies (and studios) need to understand, it doesn't matter when you release information, it's how you release it. Just like Paramount should have done in presenting Khan to the world as the next bad guy in Trek... DST should do something that is quintessentially Star Trek to launch their next ship (a stop motion video of the new ship leaving a space dock or something) I mean it's not as if DST are new to it all, they have had the Star Trek license for well over 10 years now, has it changed a damn thing keeping the next ship a secret in the past? No. 

 

Instead of creating some buzz surrounding their product, their kind of missing the point... Even if it was like a Hot Toys teaser poster and they revealed a tiny portion of the next ship in an awesome poster... God make your products something special, something that no one can resist! It infuriates me that people who are working in a relatively creative industry, aren't more creative with how they present their product to fans. 



#66 Alteran195

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:14 PM

It's keeping Khan a secret from fans promoting Into Darkness all over again. Companies (and studios) need to understand, it doesn't matter when you release information, it's how you release it. Just like Paramount should have done in presenting Khan to the world as the next bad guy in Trek... DST should do something that is quintessentially Star Trek to launch their next ship (a stop motion video of the new ship leaving a space dock or something) I mean it's not as if DST are new to it all, they have had the Star Trek license for well over 10 years now, has it changed a damn thing keeping the next ship a secret in the past? No. 
 
Instead of creating some buzz surrounding their product, their kind of missing the point... Even if it was like a Hot Toys teaser poster and they revealed a tiny portion of the next ship in an awesome poster... God make your products something special, something that no one can resist! It infuriates me that people who are working in a relatively creative industry, aren't more creative with how they present their product to fans. 


The difference between what DST does and what paramount did is that DST has offered various hints towards the next ships from their AskDSTs which now seems to have changed at some point. Paramount just denied it was Kahn completely.

I agree they should just say what they plan on doing in some way, your suggestions for doing it are pretty cool. I know if DST had announced the Excelsior/B earlier I wouldn't have spent a good chunk of money on a pro built model.

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:01 PM

The difference between what DST does and what paramount did is that DST has offered various hints towards the next ships from their AskDSTs which now seems to have changed at some point. Paramount just denied it was Kahn completely.

I agree they should just say what they plan on doing in some way, your suggestions for doing it are pretty cool. I know if DST had announced the Excelsior/B earlier I wouldn't have spent a good chunk of money on a pro built model.

 

I hear ya but it's kind of the same pointless secrecy that doesn't do anything but turn people away. 



#68 Alteran195

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:06 PM

The biggest thing I don't understand is why bother with secrecy? DST is the only company making large scale ships, its not like they have any competition in the market.

#69 tuvok47

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

I'd imagine it's to lessen complaining and negativity regarding release timelines.  If we found out today that DST had may the decision to move ahead with the Defiant, and that it wouldn't be out for 18 months...that would cause a ruckus.  And then when it gets delayed by 3 months..another ruckus.  21 months of nit-picking every tiny thing and complaining that it's taking FOREVER.



#70 trekhunter1701

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'd imagine it's to lessen complaining and negativity regarding release timelines.  If we found out today that DST had may the decision to move ahead with the Defiant, and that it wouldn't be out for 18 months...that would cause a ruckus.  And then when it gets delayed by 3 months..another ruckus.  21 months of nit-picking every tiny thing and complaining that it's taking FOREVER.


It's taken 5 years to get the Excelsior!!

#71 Alteran195

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:47 PM

I don't have a problem waiting for ships, the Excelsior will be worth it I'm sure.

I have a problem with hinting at things and changing stuff with no indication of it. The problem with the AskDST stuff is that when they answer a question b it's assumed that answer won't change so no one ask's it again.

A update on theirs plans occasionally would be very nice.

#72 tuvok47

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:26 PM

It's taken 5 years to get the Excelsior!!


See? :)

#73 Alteran195

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

Wasn't part of that 5 years dealing with factory issues?

#74 weyoun_9

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:18 PM

I totally feel for DST though, because it's kind of a lose/lose situation. On one hand, they could tell us what we want to know, show us samples, and get us really excited for a product...and then if it doesn't happen, we complain about how nothing ever gets done. Then, when they keep secrets to wait until they're sure they can move on a project...we complain that they never tell us anything. 

 

That said I really wanna know what the next Select figure is. Will be. Could. Be. (It's totally that Troi someone posted with the Klingon skeleton and the psychic beams, isn't it?) ;)



#75 tuvok47

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:08 PM


We know that the 4th select has a base that works with Picard. Borg fighting Troi with chocolate sundae would make my year.

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:47 AM

Assuming they know people will take photos of the next ship or ships at toy fair then DST are still going to potentially face a barrage of fans complaining that it's taking too long etc...

If they show nothing then they're equally going to face a barrage of complaints by angry Trekkies

So why not just announce the next ship, build excitement for it but don't give a release date, just make it clear that the release date is to be confirmed in big bold letters.

#77 tuvok47

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:43 AM

I'd imagine buyers want to see release dates, even if they end up changing.

I'd also imagine that DST won't have anything on display at Toy Fair that they're not comfy with leaking to us consumers.

#78 Commodore Kor'Tar

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:03 AM

I for one, of course would prefer to get products ASAP, but with DST I have learned patience. For the price and a usual fairly high quality, it is worth the wait. I hope we do see some teases of products yet to come at Toy Fair.



#79 DSTZach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

 

Whilst there are obvious exceptions due to the screen time a  ship has been given and the popularity/recognition that ship has had within a series or a movie, as toys/models (and perhaps as characters themselves) Star Trek ships are vastly more popular than the flesh and blood characters within the shows.

 

I think you're a little biased, being a ship guy, but even you acknowledge that ship popularity varies based on recognition. I would posit that the Defiant may be loved by hardcore DS9 fans, but is not as distinctly identifiable as "Star Trek" to a large number of casual fans who love the movies and the property in general. I'm sure we'll make it some day, but it's another example of tooling with limited applications. You need to think about the ship's class as much as the ship itself. Even when we make an Enterprise, we need to make other versions of it to make it work, and a Defiant will (in all likelihood) not sell as much as an Enterprise.



#80 DSTZach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:56 PM


...just because a previous item from a Trek series was not successful five plus years ago doesn't mean the market wouldn't support it now. Especially the captain, the title ship, or other popular characters. (Sidebar...Kale Mulgrew is hot right now with Orange is the New Black. Seems like a no-brainer to try Voyager again right now)

 

If Orange is the New Black is the best reason to make new Voyager product, we're in trouble. :)






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