It didn't have any info that us crazed…er, I mean us enthusiastic Defiant afficianados didn't all ready know except the part concerning its appearance in First Contact:
The Defiant was “digitalized” for Star Trek: First Contact by Vision Art and rendered by Industrial Light & Magic.
I had assumed it was the physical filming model that was made to look damaged with some digital damage superimposed. If it was completely CGI it is a shame that model was not converted and given over to DS9. It looked damn fine to me.
Maybe this article was in error? Any insights? (looking at you Jay K )
Regards the ILM version, I know as much as anyone. That is to say, I've absolutely no idea why they didn't use it. If I had to guess, it might have been something to do with the resolution of the model, as I remember reading that the Akira had to be redone a bit before it could be used on Deep Space Nine (might be confused here, so don't hold me to that). But yeah, I'd love to know why it was never used. I've seen some really technically-minded people say that the ILM version isn't completely accurate, but to my eye, the shape looks bang-on - curvy, chunky-looking and wide nose - and that's all I care about really. lol
This is all the info I know regarding CG Defiant models (click to read):
Spoiler
There's four known CGI models of the Defiant that were used on screen:
The ILM version in First Contact (see video in first post).
The early CG version from the series, also used in the Voyager episode chasing down the Prometheus: See picture here - http://i.imgur.com/by5cp8d.jpg - and it's top left, and middle right (message in a bottle and sacrifice of angels). As should be clear, when compared to the filming model, it looks way off.
The later CG version from DS9, which is much closer to the studio model barring a few minor differences - video here with first-appearance around 10 seconds:
This version is what Round 2 are using for their cadet-series kit, as well as the one being offered with their re-issued Deep Space Nine model. It's also the version upon which the Eaglemoss model is based.
Lastly, there's the CG model seen most regularly by everyone (although they don't know it!), and that's the one in the DS9 opening titles:
This version seems really good to my eye, with only one glaring error - the nose (Warhead Module) is seated too low down (notice the gap at the top). The shape of the nose in this version is near perfect though (notice the smooth curve on its dorsal side - something that's not quite right on the version above this one).
I'll be honest, one day I hope to own a model which is at least 90% accurate to the physical miniature. It's a similar situation to the problem that fans of the Galaxy class have (6 foot version compared to the 4 foot 'bulldog' version). The only difference with the Defiant, is that you absolutely can't get a model or toy that is true to the original filming miniature, whereas through third-party parts, you can with the Galaxy class! Furuta, F-Toys, Playmates and AMT/Ertl, they all used the 'Sacrifice/Message in a Bottle' version for their Defiant models. It's only within the last eighteen months that we've really had models which are much better in terms of accuracy, but not completely. Being completely honest, I'm fine with that though. As long as it has its curvy, chunky nose, and the nacelles are pinched towards the back - not parallel, then it'll do for me.
What do you mean,they don't know it? A lot of people do actually know that,lol! The Defiant is ok,a nice little ship. Still reminds me of a toilet seat though,LOL!
What do you mean,they don't know it? A lot of people do actually know that,lol! The Defiant is ok,a nice little ship. Still reminds me of a toilet seat though,LOL!
LOL! Cool tat btw! My Trek tat is kinda boring,been meaning to update it.
And yes,I do love my Playmates Defiant,lol! Even the one from Hallmark is pretty neat.
J-R!
thank you. i need a touch up on her i have had it for some time now.
i just love that ship bad @$$ looking has the power and a c.d. any day any ship i think she will win. i think in my op. the only ship that can keep up with her is Prometheus not that Prometheus would win in a fight but she can keep up..
thank you. i need a touch up on her i have had it for some time now.
i just love that ship bad @$$ looking has the power and a c.d. any day any ship i think she will win. i think in my op. the only ship that can keep up with her is Prometheus not that Prometheus would win in a fight but she can keep up..
Now now, lets not say anything to crazy here. The Defiant is a tough little ship, but Prometheus would mop the floor with it in a fight. We saw Prometheus take fire from what, 2 Defiant Class ships, an Akira and a couple Romulan Warbirds, and barely took any damage. Not to mention it took down a Warbird in a couple shots. Defiant might put up a fight, but it is outclassed by Prometheus.
Regards the ILM version, I know as much as anyone. That is to say, I've absolutely no idea why they didn't use it. If I had to guess, it might have been something to do with the resolution of the model, as I remember reading that the Akira had to be redone a bit before it could be used on Deep Space Nine (might be confused here, so don't hold me to that). But yeah, I'd love to know why it was never used. I've seen some really technically-minded people say that the ILM version isn't completely accurate, but to my eye, the shape looks bang-on - curvy, chunky-looking and wide nose - and that's all I care about really. lol
This is all the info I know regarding CG Defiant models (click to read):
Spoiler
There's four known CGI models of the Defiant that were used on screen:
The ILM version in First Contact (see video in first post).
The early CG version from the series, also used in the Voyager episode chasing down the Prometheus: See picture here - http://i.imgur.com/by5cp8d.jpg - and it's top left, and middle right (message in a bottle and sacrifice of angels). As should be clear, when compared to the filming model, it looks way off.
The later CG version from DS9, which is much closer to the studio model barring a few minor differences - video here with first-appearance around 10 seconds:
This version is what Round 2 are using for their cadet-series kit, as well as the one being offered with their re-issued Deep Space Nine model. It's also the version upon which the Eaglemoss model is based.
Lastly, there's the CG model seen most regularly by everyone (although they don't know it!), and that's the one in the DS9 opening titles:
This version seems really good to my eye, with only one glaring error - the nose (Warhead Module) is seated too low down (notice the gap at the top). The shape of the nose in this version is near perfect though (notice the smooth curve on its dorsal side - something that's not quite right on the version above this one).
I'll be honest, one day I hope to own a model which is at least 90% accurate to the physical miniature. It's a similar situation to the problem that fans of the Galaxy class have (6 foot version compared to the 4 foot 'bulldog' version). The only difference with the Defiant, is that you absolutely can't get a model or toy that is true to the original filming miniature, whereas through third-party parts, you can with the Galaxy class! Furuta, F-Toys, Playmates and AMT/Ertl, they all used the 'Sacrifice/Message in a Bottle' version for their Defiant models. It's only within the last eighteen months that we've really had models which are much better in terms of accuracy, but not completely. Being completely honest, I'm fine with that though. As long as it has its curvy, chunky nose, and the nacelles are pinched towards the back - not parallel, then it'll do for me.
Thanks for the in-depth reply. Yeah those are the CGI models I know of also. The resolution of the one used in the credits sequence is a little low also. If you notice the rim around the bridge it is not a smooth circle. You can see what I would call blockiness. This one was used in "Starship Down" and "Broken Link" yes? I wish Star Trek: Legacy had used the season 7 model but it was another version of the "Sacrifice of Angels"/AMT version. Sigh.
Another random Defiant topic is the variation of the sound of the pulse phasers being fired. I love the "correct" one as heard in that famous money shot in "The Die is Cast".
Absolutely agree dude, that's the one thing that irks me about her in First Contact. The original sound of them is definitely the best.
Speaking of games, I loved Legacy (good laugh to play), but I was gutted when I saw the Defiant as well. I had it on the 360, but I did see a video of the PC version in which someone had put a better Defiant in through mods, and it looked amazing. Same guy also had the Prometheus, and the Dominion/Cardassians. I can't find the video now, but to say I was envious is an understatement. lol
Robster, in regards to my 'lot of people don't know' line, it wasn't meant to be a brag/insult, just more of a 'it doesn't immediately spring to mind' - which describes it perfectly in terms of my poor memory skills. lol
No worries mate,I'm not easily insulted,lol. Disappointed maybe,but not insulted. LOL! What I find totally hysterical though,is when people watching a movie and some know it all wanker says,oh that is so obviously cgi,and it isn't,LOL! Cracks me up every time,and it's great fun telling them they're WRONG! lol! I remember seeing ST FC with a bunch of morons in this country and someone behind me said,humour?,in Star Trek?,and I turned around and said,you obviously haven't seen much Trek. Reaction from the guy? Priceless!
And it really was great seeing Defiant on the big screen. Saw ST FC in London,first time around. Then here and there over the years.
I'm late to this party, but I have a foggy recollection of hearing that the CGI model of the Defiant used in First Contact got screwed up in the conversion from ILM's software to Lightwave, so it didn't get ported over along with the Steamrunner, Sabre, and Akira classes. IIRC, the Norway class model was similarly screwed up and deemed lost.
I think there's a fleet-shot in some episode where the vertex order of the Steamrunner's saucer is clearly reversed (making it appear "inside out") - a common symptom of 3D model conversion woes!
Random question, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on this.
When they remastered TOS for bluray, they re-did all the effects shots - not sure if they remastered the old ones as well, but I'm just going off what I've seen Doug Drexler say: He hates it, and I have to agree with him - I dislike the updated shots. However, with TNG, they recreated them perfectly, minus some small corrections and updated planets. So we still had the 6 foot version of the Enterprise, mingled in with the 4 foot bulldog version.
In a dream scenario, what would you guys want with a DS9 remaster? Personally, I'd be fine with CBS Digital completely redoing a good chunk of them, using an accurate Defiant of course (Tobias Richter), whilst still roughly following TNG's guidelines. For example, the scene where the Defiant saves Dukat and the Detapa Council from the Klingons. That, I'd keep EXACTLY the same, just updated with better weapons and tractor beam effects. But the later battle scenes where there's dozens of ships on screen, but only the Defiant and a handful more are actually firing their weapons, usually right in the foreground? I'd be fine with them changing that to show the background ships slogging it out as well.
Also, the final battle at Cardassia - throw the Enterprise E in the background, and tone down the amount of duplicate Galaxy, Excelsior and Miranda class ships, and throw in some others such as the Ambassador class, and maybe even a few really cool fan designs (that 'Galaxy-fied' Sabre class for one).
Of course, that would never happen because it'd be way too expensive, but I'd love them to do that. Also, even if they just update the original scenes TNG bluray style, how cool would it be for them to make the ship and space scenes appear in 16:9? Keep the show 4:3 when actors are featured, but for any space-shots, I'd love to have that little bit extra on the sides. This would've been lovely for them to do with TNG as well.
I wasn't keen on the TOS remastered effects at first, but now I love them. The nice thing about those BluRays is that you have the option to watch every episode with the original effects. I really like the group of Klingon D7s in "Errand of Mercy" and the Romulan Bird of Prey thrown in for "The Enterprise Incident."
For DS9, I'd love it if it got the same treatment as TNG. All the visual effects that were primarily done with real models should just be re-composited with updated weapons fire, shield hits, etc. CG. I think the first episode they should do to really get consumers excited about the series in HD is "The Way of the Warrior." It's in that mini-movie that the tone of the series shifts, Worf joins the crew, and Starfleet takes on the Klingons in two distinctive and AWESOME battle sequences. I'm still amazed at all the motion control work done for that massive fleet, not to mention all the dough spent on each of the shots fired by the station. I would love to know if there's an official count on how many torpedoes we saw firing on screen.
As you get to the later seasons where all the battles are CG I am all for entirely new sequences with more up to date models. After seeing what CBS did with the Enterprise-D in "Unification" I have full confidence they would blow us away. And amen to your comment about including other designs that were never digitized. Show some love to the Ambassador, Negh'Var, Norway, Constellation, upgraded Excelsior, and Oberth classes. Throw in more Nebula, Defiant, and Intrepid class. And for heaven's sake, put some $%#^&%$ names on those ships! Also a good idea not to use NCC-1701-D or NCC-1864 on any in the foreground (looking at you "Sacrifice of Angels"). If licensing issues can be resolved, by all means throw in the Enterprise-E where appropriate. Heck, the Prometheus could also be seen in the last few battles.
Dang it Jay K, now you got me really wanting to see all this happen. I'm still hoping that someone will make a decent video game where I can fly the Defiant up against Jem'Hadar and Cardassian ships. You mentioned the pretty good Legacy mod but that's well above my pay grade. What a shame Dominion ships were no where to be found in the game proper.
Haha, same here man! I completely agree with you regarding Way of the Warrior being the first one to get the HD treatment (and for none of its scenes to be altered other than new effects, etc). As good as later episodes are, this one will always be my favourite as so much of it is perfect. Story, action, acting, and just how insane it was at the time that they brought Worf in, and it didn't feel awkward or cheesy - but was in fact, perfect. I remember watching it with my friend at the time (we were ten), and it was probably the first tv show or film to get locked in my brain as in, it was all I could think about.
Big post about Trek games.
Spoiler
I was (am) still gutted that the Dominion and Cardassians weren't in Legacy! I convinced a few guys I played Halo with at the time to pick it up (for the multiplayer and co-op), and it was glitchy, but really fun when it worked. The Defiant was incredibly un-balanced (those two would go Klingons - usually two Vor'cha class), and take on me, just using the Defiant - so much fun! Also, defending DS9 from the Borg was great, although it was a shame you couldn't switch the enemy to the Klingons. Really decent game at the time, and it's a shame it didn't sell well as a sequel could've been really good.
Not sure if you know, but there's a fan project called Star Trek Excalibur - a sort've brand new game built upon the PC's 'Bridge Commander' series, which aims to allow all this (big battles, all races) and more. It's basically as close to a Starship Sim (with modern age graphics) as we'll ever get. Mission examples include responding to distress signals, and rescuing other ships using your tractor beam. All the ships function as you'd love them to as well. For instance, the Galaxy-class features saucer separation (as do other ships), Voyager's nacelles raise up when going to warp, and the Captain's yachts, shuttles and runabouts can all be used (launched from the ship you're commanding).
However, even though they're posting updates lately, it's been in the works for a long, long time, and has a few little things that worry me (they're using the Sacrifice Defiant, as well as some other inaccurate renders - shouldn't be a problem as you can mod the game extensively apparently). Either way, take a look: http://www.stexcalibur.com/
Well, nobody's selling the game anymore - and with the legal quagmire that Paramount/CBS' relationship with Activision became, nobody ever will again - so I think, since you already own the game, you'd be within your rights to download a "backup copy" that doesn't need the disc. I ended up needing to do that when my disc got scratched, that copy still works perfectly.
I loved that game too. The Excalibur stuff sounds promising. I tried really hard to get a BC mod working but couldn't. I need the book "Modding Bridge Commander for Dummies." Then I need another book called "How to Understand 'Modding Bridge Commander for Dummies'". Also my main computer has been a Mac since 2007. I guess if it ever becomes something I really want to setup I can hire some nice fellow Trekster in the LA area to make a house call.
In the meantime my Xbox360 keeps Legacy spinning a few times a week.
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