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#281 Alteran195

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 09:30 AM

If this had been the original design in 2009, I doubt we would have had nearly as many complaints. It's a really nice design that I want to see in person.

I just noticed it even has the bar things on the inside of the nacelles. Nice detail.

#282 Alteran195

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 09:58 PM

Here's an interesting shot of the new bridge some.

http://m.imgur.com/2V8dyKj

It pains me to say it, but I don't know if there is a window for the view screen on it. It doesn't look like there is.

Also, the video:


#283 Morgan

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:23 PM

Saw it on a plane again a few days ago, still didn't get what Krall's beef was exactly. It gets a bit lost in all that action and the sheer spectacle/pointlessness/fragility of Yorktown Station.

 

Having said that, still feels like the best of the three films.



#284 1701D

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 07:39 PM

Krall would have been a better villain had he just been an abandoned starfleet captain. I thought him being an alien and then turning back into a human was a bit odd.

I had no problem with Yorktown Base. I thought it was just the kind of thing the federation would build; impressive, free and vulnerable. McCoy made the perfect observation of Yorktown.

But yeah Krall should have been an abandoned starfleet captain, forgotten by the federation and ultimately someone that goes rogue using the advanced technology found on the planet but perhaps aligning himself and his crew with the natives who also aren't too fond of the federation imposing their way of life onto them. Luring the Enterprise to the Planet to destroy it and to begin an all out war against those who live their lives freely within the Federation.

#285 MisterPL

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:06 AM

But yeah Krall should have been an abandoned starfleet captain, forgotten by the federation and ultimately someone that goes rogue using the advanced technology found on the planet but perhaps aligning himself and his crew with the natives who also aren't too fond of the federation imposing their way of life onto them. Luring the Enterprise to the Planet to destroy it and to begin an all out war against those who live their lives freely within the Federation.

 

If Into Darkness was a reboot of "Space Seed," the premise of what you describe would have had people accusing Beyond of being a reboot of The Wrath of Khan.



#286 Gothneo

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 04:51 PM

Well... I'm late to the game commenting on Beyond... other than its financials... but thats because I just had the opportunity  to see it on my last Business flight.

 

In general, I have to agree with most of the commentary and analysis. This was a solid start trek effort!

 

Things that made it work for me...

 

1. The mcguffins weren't huge, in your face pure fantasy... ala red matter or miracle blood. Instead they were more subtle, and while some I don't think worked they didn't out right offend my scientific sensibilities.

 

2. I finally felt a bit of optimism! finally we aren't killing entire planets or tearing apart vaunted institutions.

 

3. The CGI in Beyond was truly Gorgeous... to the point that I could see myself getting it on blue ray. Gotta agree that the space station was something special and done well.

 

4. The character interactions worked for me... loved that they finally admitted that long term missions can take its toll on people and relationships. The dialog between McCoy and Spock was especially good IMO.

 

5. Kirk finally finds himself.

 

This isn't to say I think its perfect... some of the issues I had;

 

1. Lins fast and furious style did grate on me a bit in the 2nd act... I found my self thinking they needed to get to the point a few times.

 

2. The antagonist was a bit weekly done in some aspects... and over done in other aspects...

 

3. Not sure why Kirk didn't hi tail it out of there at the first sign of trouble... a poorly done mcguffin IMO.

 

Overall the the pros outweighed the cons IMO.... This is the first of the new movies that I think I can actually watch again!



#287 MisterPL

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:47 AM

I think we're looking at a less expensive followup.

 

As of this weekend's box office, Beyond is still about $43.7 million away from breaking even for the studio, which is exactly where Ghostbusters ended up. That's with China and without factoring in the marketing budgets. I'd expect Beyond to perform better on home video but either way, this Trek came up short.

 

The three-picture deals with the cast are up so it looks like this might be an opportunity to look ahead, bring in some new (IE - cheaper) blood, and feature a story that's lighter on VFX. We'll see.



#288 Alex

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 02:15 AM

Saw it on a plane again a few days ago, still didn't get what Krall's beef was exactly. It gets a bit lost in all that action and the sheer spectacle/pointlessness/fragility of Yorktown Station.

 

Having said that, still feels like the best of the three films.

Oh, it's definitely the best of the three Kelvin Timeline films, and one of the best Trek films to date overall IMO. It felt like a two–hour episode and I mean that in a good way, not in the Star Trek: Inssurrection way of two hours being wasted. (See Into Darkness for something along those lines.)

 

As for Krall, he was just an abandoned Starfleet Captain, who happened to use various aliens to keep himself alive, in turn taking on some of their traits as a result of the technology he used to remain alive. (I actually thought this was a brilliant way to have a bit of a twist in the story instead of just started out with Krall being a human from the get–go. It's part of what sets this apart from Into Darkness and simply aping TWOK.) With regards to his "beef," the impression that I got after watching the movie a second time is the same as it was after watching it the first time: Krall was a military man who fought in and helped win the Xindi and Romulan Wars of the 22nd Century. When Starfleet was formed, the MACO organization that he was a part of was disbanded and integrated into Starfleet. All of this is established in the film itself. My take on Krall is that he had some level of PTSD from his fighting that was probably kept in check when he was first given command of a ship by Starfleet. After the Franklin crash–landed though, and after it became obvious that Starfleet wasn't coming to rescue him or his crew, Krall's mental state likely began to fall apart, which is hinted at when his logs start to turn into incoherent ramblings and he begins opening them with lines like "I can't remember the Stardate." In effect, Krall goes mad like so many of those Captain's that Kirk ran into in TOS on ships that had been left in shambles, and winds up taking the lives of his crew. He basically blames Starfleet and the Federation for being left for dead on that planet, but he also claims to take issue with the idea of an organization that has the Earth working peacefully with aliens he likely would have been fighting as a MACO. At face value you could call him an "Earth Supremisist," and a Terra Prime–esque xenophobe who Starfleet somehow didn't manage to screen out when assigning Captains to ships. When I think about it a bit more though since Beyond requires its audience to think the way Trek used to, (and I thank it for that,) the takeway I get is that Krall likely gained that hatred for the Federation only after his ship was marooned, and after he had to kill multiple aliens to keep himself alive, slowly beginning to believe that he was better than them. It's not spoonfed to us as the audience, but it's definitely implied that Krall had a bit of a mental breakdown that lead to him behaving the way he did, killing his crew and others, and ultimately becoming the vengful person that we saw fighting with Kirk. In fact, Kirk has one line of dialogue that sums Krall up perfectly with the theme of the movie, "He got lost." It works on so many levels, he lost his morals, he lost control, he lost his mind, he lost his command, and he lost his way to name a few. While it's easy to dismiss Krall as just copying Khan's motives, that's a mistake as well. If you subscribe to my theory that he slowly went insane from being marooned, he has some overlap with Khan, but differs from Khan in the sense that Khan always had a hatred of the Federation, whereas Krall's developed slowly over time. Additionally, there's quite a bit of Commodore Decker in Krall when it comes to losing his command and going insane as a result, so to me he's sort of a cross between Khan and Commodore Decker or Gary Mitchell in terms of motives, with a little bit of PTSD thrown in for good measure. The way I see it Krall become vengeful after losing his mind, and any repressed hatred for other species just bubbled up to the surface. This is what distinguishes him from Khan to me; Krall grew vengeful whereas Khan was vengeful from the get–go. I actually think that if Kirk had gotten Krall into some sort of Starfleet medical facility instead of having to kill him, his mental health might have been salvagable to some extent, and that he'd have realized why he was wrong. Basically though, his beef is that the Federation flew in the face of what the MACOs did. The Federation has different species working together while the MACOs were humans whose job as part of the Earth Military was to kill threatening aliens, which Krall was supposedly very good at. The movie could have done more to expand on Krall's backstory, but then it would have lasted for three hours and people would have whined that it was too long, so I'm willing to take the abridged backstory.

 

I think we're looking at a less expensive followup.

 

As of this weekend's box office, Beyond is still about $43.7 million away from breaking even for the studio, which is exactly where Ghostbusters ended up. That's with China and without factoring in the marketing budgets. I'd expect Beyond to perform better on home video but either way, this Trek came up short.

 

The three-picture deals with the cast are up so it looks like this might be an opportunity to look ahead, bring in some new (IE - cheaper) blood, and feature a story that's lighter on VFX. We'll see.

Oh, there will be a follow–up, and it will definitely be less expensive. Even before Beyond was released, Simon Pegg was already hinting at the idea that he wanted Paramount to cut some of the flashier VFX as a way to drastically cut the budget since he felt that there was no reason Beyond needed to be as expensive as it was, other than the fact that Paramount was basically demanding lots of pyrotechnics and action scenes. Basically, the thing that fans typically see as a negative were the same thing that was driving the cost of the film through the roof, and Pegg immediately realized he could please everyone by doing away with that thing. Fewer action scenes makes fans happy, and a lower budget makes Paramount happy; it really is a win–win for everyone.

 

As for Beyond coming up short, don't expect it to affect any plans Paramount has for a follow–up film too much. 2016 was a disastrous years for sequels and reboots financially, and Beyond's box offices problems were largely seen as a part of that, hence why expectations were adjusted downward before it was released, and why Paramount noted they weren't concerned by said adjustment. The film still took the #1 spot at the box office on opening weekend and performed within expectations relative to other films released this year, so it's flaws have less to do with the film and more to do with general trends in moviegoers as a whole. It didn't help that the first teaser alienated a good chunk of the audience and that Paramount did so little to promote Beyond domestically that casual moviegoers wound up not even realizing that it was out. China's box office wasn't as strong as it could have been because Star Trek is (somewhat surprisingly) not that well known there despite being translated into a slew of different languages. It's not like it is in western countries where people are very familiar with it, and the involvement of Chinese production companies was largely to help get Chinese moviegoers into theaters to see the film. Needless to say, they weren't exactly thrilled with Paramount's pandering to them.

 

Right now Paramount has already begun inking additional deals with the surviving cast from Beyond, so it's unlikely that things will change anytime soon. It also sounds like they even have an idea in mind for the next film, (Kirk somehow crossing paths with his Dad,) and the idea doesn't sound FX intensive, so I suspect we'll see another Kelvin Timeline movie that has some substance too it. Pine and Quinto are under contract already, I believe Zoe Saldana might have also inked a new contract as part of the deal to appear in Beyond, (some of the cast was only signed for two films originally; when they inked contracts for this one, they also signed up for a fourth film,) and Pegg has already said that he's very willing to write and take on production duties again, with everything just being a matter of the lawyers agreeing on numbers, which it sounds like they will. Karl Urban has also stated that if Pegg is onboard for the next film, he is too, most likely since both men are Star Trek fans and they know how to handle the franchise in a way fans appreciate and the studio approves of. Besides, another reboot would only further alienate any of the audience the last three films brought in. If there's anything remotely positive to come from the tragic death of Anton Yelchin, it's that the loss of Chekov in the Kelvin Timeline has opened up a spot on the bridge for the writers to get creative with. Paramount and Pegg are in total agreement to not recast Chekov, which means that there's an empty bridge seat, and that opens up the room for some more diversity on the bridge. A lot of people seem very fond of the idea that Jaylah could become a bridge officer replacing Chekov and adding some diveristy, (non–human female) to the crew, and Pegg has also stated that he's willing to bring back Alice Eve to reprise her role as Carol Marcus if it fits with the story. (Apparently Pegg decided not to involve her in the last film since she'd have been reduced to glorified scenery, and he felt that would have been a waste of her time and the character she portrayed, so he just opted not to have her involved at all rather than shoehorning her in for the sake of showing her on screen.) I wouldn't expect to see her at the helm, but she could also add diversity and a new dynamic to the crew in addition to Chekov's replacement, which combined with a reduction in action scenes, could give the Kelvin Timeline the shot in the arm that it needs with people who didn't see Beyond. Likewise, I have a feeling that Beyond is going to surge in popularity out of theaters, possibly to the point where it might see a brief second run once people realize what they missed out on by skipping this film.

 

Don't worry too much about the box office for this movie; it's not great, but it's what Paramount was expecting when they saw how other sequels performed. Look at The Divergent Series' last installment for a great example of this. Allegiant was the best film that apparently nobody other than my girlfriend and I saw, and it didn't get nearly the audience it deserved. Both of us left the theater thrilled with it, and neither of us could wait for the second part/follow–up movie that would have been called Ascendent. (It was Lionsgate's way of not calling it Allegiant Part 2, even though there were only three books to base the movies off of.) Neither of us were exactly thrilled when the film was shelved and announcements were made that it's being reworked into a TV series, and part of me wishes Lionsgate would go back on that and just let the thing end as originally planned, even if they threw in some material to allude to a TV series follow–up. Then again, I also enjoyed Beyond, so I clearly am doing a poor job of picking profitable films, even if I'm picking ones that are very enjoyable despite nobody actually seeing them. :(



#289 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 04:50 PM

When they cut the budget and demand more for less with TWOK we got something special. Likewise... Deadpool is a recent example where the studio cut the budget and it actually seems like it helped make it better.

 

They don't need to stand on flash... write a decent script and it will sell!



#290 1701D

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 07:07 PM

The studio need to stop thinking big summer blockbuster. It has horrifically backfired on Paramount being so reliant on these huge tent pole movies that are made for huge amounts of money with the expectation that they will make huge amounts of money back.

With Star Trek Beyond, this was a movie already made for less and made even less.

In 2009 Paramount tried to turn Star Trek into this big budget spectacle franchise on the same footing as Star Wars. A big juggernaut, tie ins and toys that all combine to create this massive new Star Trek movie.

well let's be honest, Star Trek is a low budget affair with big ideas. The best Star Trek stories have been those entirely driven by excellent acting and characters. Everything else is secondary and done creatively.

The next Star Trek movie shouldn't be a tent pole summer blockbuster, it should be a smaller, niche character story revolving around either the crew as they are or one or two of them.

Trouble is though is that these are actors with rising salaries, no matter what happens, Paramount need to get Star Trek 4 in production by next year and out by 2018.

#291 Gothneo

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 04:28 AM

Star Trek Beyond's budget was 185 Mil, Into Darkness was 190 mil, so yes, it was less... but not significantly, especially when compared to the 140 mil budget of the 2009 Star Trek movie.

 

If you look at Deadpool... it had a budget of 58 mil, when compared to the X-man franchise starting in 2000... thats the lowest ever!  X-Men Apocalypse, was 178 mil.

 

This seems like a great example of moving a movie off the summer blockbuster tentpole, cutting the budget and getting the right people involved to make a great movie for substantially less. I think Star Trek needs to be in the 75 Mil range... and while I love the extended cast of Star Trek... its always been about Kirk, Spock and McCoy... I wouldn't mind seeing a star trek movie that just focused on those three.



#292 1701D

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 11:13 AM

Star Trek Beyond's budget was 185 Mil, Into Darkness was 190 mil, so yes, it was less... but not significantly, especially when compared to the 140 mil budget of the 2009 Star Trek movie.
 
If you look at Deadpool... it had a budget of 58 mil, when compared to the X-man franchise starting in 2000... thats the lowest ever!  X-Men Apocalypse, was 178 mil.
 
This seems like a great example of moving a movie off the summer blockbuster tentpole, cutting the budget and getting the right people involved to make a great movie for substantially less. I think Star Trek needs to be in the 75 Mil range... and while I love the extended cast of Star Trek... its always been about Kirk, Spock and McCoy... I wouldn't mind seeing a star trek movie that just focused on those three.

Pine Quinto and Urban's salaries would swallow that $75 million budget up before a single shot had been made.

Deadpool (💀💩L) had only one major star, Ryan Reynolds.

I think the lowest you could make a Star Trek movie these days would be around the $110 million mark if you were to focus on the current actors and perhaps not all of them.

My thought is that you don't go back to the Kelvin Timeline for a while. Instead you do an anthology series of movies that are one off, stand alone events that, like Rogue One, focus on a particular event in the Star Trek universe. a period piece set in the Star Trek universe.

Wolf 359 perhaps? The Romulan Wars? The Dominion War from the point of view of a small band of starfleet marines? The Battle of Nirandra 3? A Captain Garrett movie? A Worf movie? A Klingon movie that is entirely spoken in Klingon but subtitled? A Quinto Spock movie? Pine Kirk movie? A movie that expands upon Admiral Marcus and Khan? A Jaylah movie! Using the comic Star Trek: Countdown to base a movie off of? Instead of " Star Trek: let's make as much money as we can"

Let's have an animated Star Trek series that continues the voyages of the Kelvin Universe Enterprise A. Build up a younger following and then let's return to that world later on the big screen.

I think it's time Paramount and Bad Robot thought of ways to expand the universe rather than just go the sequel or prequel or reboot route. Let's see what happened during these events that have been mentioned but never filmed.

That way you could cut the budget down to $60 million, cast brilliant but unknown actors in the roles and release it outside of the summer or Christmas seasons.

Trek is a niche affair so exploit that unique aspect of it that makes Star Trek popular.

#293 Gothneo

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 04:35 PM

Pine was reported to pull in 6 mil for Beyond. Assuming all three got the same, thats only ~18 mil for their salaries. But reports are that paramount paid that much to Pine and Quinto to keep them on option for a 4th movie... so if they dropped the rest of the crew and kept only those two, that would be 12 mil.

 

Reynolds got about 2 mil for Deadpool, but also had a backend deal that probably earned him another 10 mil!

 

I'm not advocating for a sub 60 mil budget... but around 80million seems reasonable... and could still be done with Pine Quinto and Urban.

 

I really want Urban to keep doing McCoy. Love his McCoy best of all!



#294 MisterPL

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 12:56 PM

My thought is that you don't go back to the Kelvin Timeline for a while. Instead you do an anthology series of movies that are one off, stand alone events that, like Rogue One, focus on a particular event in the Star Trek universe. a period piece set in the Star Trek universe.

 

Bryan Fuller agrees but sometimes the aesthetic is a tricky sell to contemporary audiences.  ;)



#295 1701D

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 08:11 AM

I think there's too much of a fuss made over it not looking contemporary. Star Trek has its own style and it's own look, to reinvent or reimagine it for the sake of it looking more modern isn't always the way to go.

Sure if they're doing a series set in an unknown in universe future beyond what we know is the aesthetic then great! But if you're doing a show or a movie set at a specific point in Star Trek before or during what we already know is the look and aesthetic then they'd do well to follow that same aesthetic.

I don't think an audience would have a problem with watching the Enterprise as it appeared in the original series flying around on the big screen in 2016. It's an iconic and timeless design just as the Tardis is or the Millennium Falcon is.

These ships, the TOS aesthetic doesn't need reinventing. If you want to reinvent something then go beyond what has already been established and create your own look.

#296 Gothneo

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 04:44 PM

Just look at TOS remastered. For the most part the updated effects with the original style looks brilliant IMO.



#297 1701D

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 06:18 PM

Just look at TOS remastered. For the most part the updated effects with the original style looks brilliant IMO.


Totally. The designers on TOS were masters of their craft. They based their concepts on hard science and as a result it has stood the test of time.

Built so that the sets didn't wobble and with modern production techniques but following the same aesthetic, a TOS era series or movie would look both futuristic and absolutely stunning.

It's an iconic and unique look.

#298 Qcjoe

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:22 AM

Just got miy disc from Amazon. It only has two deleted scenes. Did they pull that crap where the retailers had separate features?

#299 Alteran195

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:47 AM

Just got miy disc from Amazon. It only has two deleted scenes. Did they pull that crap where the retailers had separate features?

They better not have, but it wouldn't surprise me. 

 

I should be getting my Amazon copy today, and the one I bought from Walmart later this week and will check then. 



#300 Alteran195

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:37 PM

Here some of the packaging and images of the ships that come with some of the Beyond versions. 

 

http://trekcore.com/...ing-exclusives/






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