1901 replies to this topic

[VulcanFanatic]

[Alteran195]

Doesn't look that different to me. 

 

Large monitors on the walls and consoles. 

Darker colors and lighting. 

 

Its just been modernized a bit.

 

If you cant see the similarities, you're blinding yourself to them because you don't like it. Which you've made abundantly clear is exactly what you're doing.  

[VulcanFanatic]

Doesn't look that different to you and I am the one who is blinding himself? That's interesting.I understand that we all want a new Star Trek series but I, like many, many other folks are not willing to just settle for anything they decide to put out with a Star Trek logo on it. Nope...

[Alteran195]

Instead of multiple CRT monitors, in 2017 they have a single longer monitor that can display the same information.

Theres giant CRT displays above the consoles that are replicated on the Shenzhous bridge with the larger display led throughout the bridge.

The dark grays, blacks, and blues are also present in both, just with modern set construction materials so they look metallic instead of wooden.

The lighting is darker and more dynamic on both The Cage bridge and the Shenzhous.

Its a modernization of the aesthetic from The Cage mixed with the aesthetic from Enterprise, and it fits.

But since youve hated everything Star Trek since TNG, you dont care and refuse to see it.

[VulcanFanatic]

I've never said anything about hating everything since TNG, matter of fact I enjoyed DS9 and Voyager as well as TOS, TNG,TAS , and all of the movies up until Nemesis. Nemesis and Enterprise we're products of the powers that be trying to change Star Trek into a darker, grittier show,ala the BSG reboot. Paramount and CBS hasn't learned their lesson about trying to change Star Trek. Hopefully they will learn it soon though. It will be interesting to see their ratings and subscription numbers after the premiere and see how it goes in a few months.

[Alteran195]

DS9 was when they tried to change Star Trek into something grittier and darker, and yet you say you liked it.

It was the least like Star Trek out of every series that’s been made. If there is any series that Discovery will be similar to, it’s DS9. Again, which you liked.

Voyager and Enterprise was TBTB reverting back to a more typical TNG style show. Enerprise was definitely not them trying to change Trek into something different.

[Alteran195]

New article about the Klingons, some good stuff in here.

http://trekcore.com/...ucer-interview/

[VulcanFanatic]

DS9 was when they tried to change Star Trek into something grittier and darker, and yet you say you liked it.

It was the least like Star Trek out of every series thats been made. If there is any series that Discovery will be similar to, its DS9. Again, which you liked.

Voyager and Enterprise was TBTB reverting back to a more typical TNG style show. Enerprise was definitely not them trying to change Trek into something different.

DS9 didn't throw out what came before though, it built on to Star Trek, it didn't try gutting it and making it into something else. I know exactly what those shows were, I was there watching them during their original airings.

[Alteran195]

Enterprise didnt throw anything away at all, and it did a pretty good job of sticking to canon.

Discovery also isnt throwing anything away, the people making it have said multiple times how important Star Trek is to them, and how important canon is.

They said from the beginning there were going to be visual updates, and again theyve done a good job of updating it while still respecting the original look.

DS9 did Star Trek different, and its the only series that did. I cant understand how you can say it didnt try to turn Star Trek into something different.

Its a darker, grittier, much more character driven show.

Every other series followed the TNG formula. Episodic, stand-alone episodes.

Including Enterprise.

The only time Enterprise did something different was in seasons 3 and 4, which the majority of people consider to be its stronger seasons. Especially season 4.

[VulcanFanatic]

As I said, DS9 didn't go back and change established canon, just watch "Trials and Tribblations". They were faithful to TOS in that episode. Building on to Star Trek is different than changing established things that have happened in the previous series. Enterprise had numerous things that went against canon. Prequels shouldn't be made if they are not going to be faithful to what came before.

[MisterPL]

 

2271

 

It's amazing how much things can change in six years.

 

[Alteran195]

Its almost like Trek updates its appearance based on budget and tools/technology available at the time it was made. 

 

The only reason they used the TOS aesthetic in Enterprise and DS9 was fan service. 

 

They really didn't have much choice in DS9 since they literally used the episode from TOS. 

[Alex]

The years may be right, but the bridges are wrong, 2255 should be the bridge from the U.S.S. Discovery, the U.S.S. Shenzhou is closer in age to the NX–01, although by how much remains to be seen. Coincidentally, you've actually hit on the bigger continuity error, which is the uniforms. This is especially irritating when we were apparently going to get TOS style uniforms in more subdued colors originally, which would have fit this era perfectly, and could have easily passed as something a year after The Cage.

 

 

2271

 

It's amazing how much things can change in six years.

 

I'm actually glad that you brought this up and included an image of this bridge design in particular, because it's honestly what the bridge of the U.S.S. Discovery reminds me the most of from the 23rd century bridge designs. It almost feels like DSC's production crew looked at this design, stripped out some screens, and then slapped a darker coat of paint on it and went with one "turbolift(?)" door. You can't see Spock's station in this shot, but I swear that what I'm assuming is the helm at the front of the U.S.S. Discovery's bridge reminds me of the science station from TMP. Actually the finished version of the U.S.S. Discovery test renders make the ship look like it should have been a contemporary of the refit 1701.

 

Prequels shouldn't be made if they are not going to be faithful to what came before.

I'll add that this includes the aesthetic! Trek could make changes like this without questing prior to ENT, because it was always moving forward. One of the biggest complaints about the first Star Wars prequel before the film even hit theaters, was that it looked way to advance to occur before ANH, despite Lucas actually having solid rationale for why they were able to update the aesthetic in–universe. ENT made the same mistake with Trek and with less of a justification for it, and then had to backpeddle to make itself fit in continuity with a hammer. I can tolerate the bridge of the U.S.S. Discovery,what VulcanFanatic inadvertantly pointed out is the bigger "mistake," which is that the uniforms on DSC are wildly out of place for the era, which is inexcusable when even the Kelvin Timeline managed to make those work and on the big screen no less. It's one thing to udpate the aesthetic, it's another to flagrantly ignore it. Since TMP was referenced above, it's worth pointing out that we were able to explain that away with the ship's refit, and there was a massive gap between TMP and TWOK, which allowed for another aesthetic update. Fans are fine with aesthetic updates as long as they fit in–universe, it's why Rogue One doesn't have anyone whining about the ship designs and TPM does for Star Wars. As for the ships, the Shenzhou is a bad comparison given that it's apparently much older than the U.S.S. Discovery, which is supposedly much closer in age to the 1701, which I can honestly believe. The bridge is still too large and still a little too modern for me, but I could see it being from the same general era. The uniforms are a headache though, the only way to handwave them is that we're seeing a Generations style uniform roll–out ocurring over the course of a couple years. My bigger concern right now isn't the aesthetic mess though, it's that DSC still looks like a generic space war story with the words Star Trek slapped onto it, complete with that dystopian tone everything has had since BSG04. I'm trying to like this series, I really am, but every promo that comes out and every clip that's revealed makes it harder and harder to do so when I'm being told this is Star Trek put it looks more like a cheap Game of Thrones knock–off in space.

[MisterPL]

Its almost like Trek updates its appearance based on budget and tools/technology available at the time it was made. 

 

The only reason they used the TOS aesthetic in Enterprise and DS9 was fan service. 

 

They really didn't have much choice in DS9 since they literally used the episode from TOS. 

 

Can you imagine the backlash if, instead of "Gumping" DS9 characters into existing footage from TOS, showrunners had decided to reshoot those scenes with more contemporary designs?

[VulcanFanatic]

 
2271
 
It's amazing how much things can change in six years.
 

It was in the future of TOS, so it wasn't going back and gutting it, it was building on to Star Trek. It is different, but things usually change as you go forward in time so I had no problem with that change. It was the 1701 after the refit had been done. Uniforms change eventually as time goes on, but to go back the point where Discovery is and make the changes they have done is wrong.

[VulcanFanatic]

Its almost like Trek updates its appearance based on budget and tools/technology available at the time it was made. 
 
The only reason they used the TOS aesthetic in Enterprise and DS9 was fan service. 
 
They really didn't have much choice in DS9 since they literally used the episode from TOS. 

Fan service you say? You say that like that's a cumbersome chore for the producers to do. You mean the fans that made a show the juggernaut success it has been for 50 years? Is it it a bad thing to provide service to the people that pay your bills? If you have watched all of the series over the years, paid for movie tickets, bought loads of merchandise connected to the franchise and supported it over the years, wouldn't you feel like a customer that deserves some respect by those that you buy from?

[Alteran195]

There is nothing wrong with fan service episodes at all, but expecting an aesthetic made in the 60's to be used in a 2017 TV show is far too much fan service, and would not work with modern audiences. 

 

Remember, Star Trek isn't just for the hardcore fans. 

 

Instead they've decided to update it, while still respecting the original looks. 

 

I fully expect fan service in Discovery, even more direct call backs to the original aesthetic, or a TOS Connie showing up at some point. 

[Gothneo]

I think someone has said it before, but it kinda comes down to branding, had paramount/CBS branded everything after TOS as "A Star Trek Story" you're basically free to do what you like.

 

And Mister PL.. yeah... "Trials and Tribulations" is a fan favorite precisely because of the  attention to original detail... I read some where that paramount basically re-created the original TOS set between DS9 and ENT "In a Mirror Darkly", and even in those ENT episodes they were true to TOS uniforms.

 

I honestly don't loose sleep over it... this is Hollywood... and they always gotta mess with things.

[MisterPL]

I'm actually glad that you brought this up and included an image of this bridge design in particular, because it's honestly what the bridge of the U.S.S. Discovery reminds me the most of from the 23rd century bridge designs. It almost feels like DSC's production crew looked at this design, stripped out some screens, and then slapped a darker coat of paint on it and went with one "turbolift(?)" door. You can't see Spock's station in this shot, but I swear that what I'm assuming is the helm at the front of the U.S.S. Discovery's bridge reminds me of the science station from TMP. Actually the finished version of the U.S.S. Discovery test renders make the ship look like it should have been a contemporary of the refit 1701.

 

Once they settled on the McQuarrie design, it pretty much cements Discovery's place in the timeline, at least to fans. However, if we're using NCC-1701 as a standard, we have to remember that particular starship hadn't changed much for the almost 20 years we'd seen it on TOS. It's reasonable to assume that there were other, newer ships being manufactured during that time that simply weren't seen. I have no problem accepting the upgrades of the refit having been around for ten years.

 

 

I'll add that this includes the aesthetic! Trek could make changes like this without questing prior to ENT, because it was always moving forward. One of the biggest complaints about the first Star Wars prequel before the film even hit theaters, was that it looked way to advance to occur before ANH, despite Lucas actually having solid rationale for why they were able to update the aesthetic in–universe. ENT made the same mistake with Trek and with less of a justification for it, and then had to backpeddle to make itself fit in continuity with a hammer. I can tolerate the bridge of the U.S.S. Discovery,what VulcanFanatic inadvertantly pointed out is the bigger "mistake," which is that the uniforms on DSC are wildly out of place for the era, which is inexcusable when even the Kelvin Timeline managed to make those work and on the big screen no less. It's one thing to udpate the aesthetic, it's another to flagrantly ignore it. Since TMP was referenced above, it's worth pointing out that we were able to explain that away with the ship's refit, and there was a massive gap between TMP and TWOK, which allowed for another aesthetic update. Fans are fine with aesthetic updates as long as they fit in–universe, it's why Rogue One doesn't have anyone whining about the ship designs and TPM does for Star Wars. As for the ships, the Shenzhou is a bad comparison given that it's apparently much older than the U.S.S. Discovery, which is supposedly much closer in age to the 1701, which I can honestly believe. The bridge is still too large and still a little too modern for me, but I could see it being from the same general era. The uniforms are a headache though, the only way to handwave them is that we're seeing a Generations style uniform roll–out ocurring over the course of a couple years. My bigger concern right now isn't the aesthetic mess though, it's that DSC still looks like a generic space war story with the words Star Trek slapped onto it, complete with that dystopian tone everything has had since BSG04. I'm trying to like this series, I really am, but every promo that comes out and every clip that's revealed makes it harder and harder to do so when I'm being told this is Star Trek put it looks more like a cheap Game of Thrones knock–off in space.

 

Not every aesthetic holds up over time. Discovery could have designed a bridge that looked like it fit right in with the budgetary restrictions of a 1964 sci-fi TV production but I doubt it would have attracted nearly as many viewers, even with contemporary cinematography.

 

The uniforms were jarring at first until I looked at them in context between ENT and TOS, particularly the away team suits from "The Cage."

 

 

That said, if the Enterprise shows up on Discovery, I'd expect it to look just like we saw it in "The Cage."

 

As for the Star Wars prequel aesthetic, I don't see a problem with it at all. That universe has two looks; lived-in and fresh off the factory floor. In the OT the Empire was in control so they got the new toys. The Rebel Alliance had to make do with older ships that were constantly being serviced and modified. Had it been up to me, the Naboo Starfighters would have been replaced with Y-wings that looked brand new, if only to show the progression.

[Alteran195]

Wish the Y-Wings from The Clone Wars TV series had shown up at some point in the movies, would have been a great tie in.