Well to be quite honest that is exactly what it seems like from quite a few fans. No matter what it involves be it movies, shows, figures, any of it. They are never satisified with any of it. so yes to me it seems like they are complaining and "boycotting" just to do it. I am not saying people cant have an opinion about it but to say it is going to be bad and I am going to boycott it without even knowing what it is going to be about is ridiculous. If down the road we were to find out that they were going to reboot the franchise as a comedy and have Jim Carey play Kirk then yes I would be rigt there wth those people "boycotting" the entire thing. But the fact is that we dont know what is going to be about yet or who all of the actors are or much of anything for that matter. So to make such a big deal out of it and say "I am boycotting" or "it is going to be horrible" is very shallow minded. But I have said my peace and that is all I am going to get into. This is a toy forum and BS like this is what turns places bad especialy when there are so many vultures around here just waiting for a "cause" to jump on. No matter how asinine it is.
'Star Trek' Writers Talk Direction, Technobabble
#61
Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:36 AM
Well to be quite honest that is exactly what it seems like from quite a few fans. No matter what it involves be it movies, shows, figures, any of it. They are never satisified with any of it. so yes to me it seems like they are complaining and "boycotting" just to do it. I am not saying people cant have an opinion about it but to say it is going to be bad and I am going to boycott it without even knowing what it is going to be about is ridiculous. If down the road we were to find out that they were going to reboot the franchise as a comedy and have Jim Carey play Kirk then yes I would be rigt there wth those people "boycotting" the entire thing. But the fact is that we dont know what is going to be about yet or who all of the actors are or much of anything for that matter. So to make such a big deal out of it and say "I am boycotting" or "it is going to be horrible" is very shallow minded. But I have said my peace and that is all I am going to get into. This is a toy forum and BS like this is what turns places bad especialy when there are so many vultures around here just waiting for a "cause" to jump on. No matter how asinine it is.
#62
Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:52 AM
#63
Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:51 PM
I think it's entirely fair to say that some people want to complain or boycott.
I'm not saying everyone who complains is doing it because they get a kick out of it, but there's a percentage where that's true.
#64
Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:56 PM
Ok I admit I'm shallow minded about this and I hope people will accept that side of the arguement, as I have no intention to go personal on this with anyone. Its just what I feel down in my bones (No pun intended) about this project. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were such a big part of my childhood, its like it wasn't the best, or others could do better etc.. It goes to what I feel is the cornerstone of Trek IMO.
I've boycotted movies in the past. I didn't see "Pearl Harbor" as I heard the great historical oversights in it, especilly with living eyewitnesses available. I did part for the franchise, I've to every movie opening day since TFF, even taking work off to see them. It's no big still I'm sitting this one out.
#65
Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:35 PM
#66
Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:11 PM
It can't be said better than that...
#67
Posted 29 July 2007 - 01:17 AM
I'm not saying everyone who complains is doing it because they get a kick out of it, but there's a percentage where that's true.
In which case, those people would have to have nothing else going on in their lives! I honestly don't see any genuine Star Trek fan enjoying the idea of a Trek movie they think is going to be bad. For a lot of people ~ just as VF said ~ the idea that a TOS will be essentially remade is positively painful based on past experience because it could be an extremely indifferent result and they are entitled to their opinion without being accused of having a closed mind. I am pretty certain that many of these people would be happier than many of the rest of you if Abrams could reverse recent history and produce a product that makes a return to TOS genuinely worthwhile. However, for a lot of these fans, "commercial success" would ensure a sequel, but beyond that, opening weekend grosses are far less important than actual quality.
I, for one, don't subscribe to the argument that bad Star Trek is better than no Star Trek, and was already reconciled to the idea of there being no new Trek until somebody came up with an imaginative idea. I also don't agree that a good story makes a movie. It doesn't, it is one important element, but the performances are very important, and it isn't just a case of "plugging" in new actors just because the old ones wore out. I've been watching TOS quite a bit recently and I've come to the conclusion that TOS works because of the consistently fine performances of the cast. In an age when there was no CGI, a lot of the tension in TOS is derived from very simple cut away camera techniques to deliver visual shocks, and the ability of the cast to make the peril seem believable. Because of CGI and short attention spans, a lot of that subtlety has entirely disappeared from film making, so, what we are likely to see is a version of TOS with pretty young actors of indifferent quality trying to mimic classic performances in a film bloated with CGI action and explosions galore. To me, that doesn't sound appealing, and I could care less that Transformers made money and some people here like it, I wouldn't go and sit through that movie if I was paid to, and I don't want to see that treatment meeted out to my favourite franchise. I don't think that is being awkward, I see that as wanting to hold onto to some more ephemeral standards that will outlast the current vogue for mindless blockbusters with a short lifespan and even shorter influence.
Trying to pander to a mass market audience torpedoed Nemesis and made Enterprise into a moving flesh-fest that ultimately failed. There is ~ or there ought to be ~ something more to Star Trek that resists such trends and if Paramount says it can't, then there are a significant number of potential audience for this movie who can. These people are not being awkward ~ they may even go and see other blockbusters ~ but "Trek" and "Trendy" have simply never gone together, because Trek used to be about standards, and yes! I am including Rick Berman in that statement because I as much as some unhappy fans get up some other people's noses, the ingrates who bash the guy (just because he was in the job too long) who kept Trek going for 18 years really get up mine.
I'm not out to start a flamefest either, but it strikes me that the fanbase ~ already divided ~ needs to embrace IDIC and respect the opinions of both sides of this argument as valid, and not dismiss the other side as being either "too easily pleased" or "impossible to please". As for where I stand, I am awaiting reassurance ~ in whatever form Abrams wishes to give it out ~ that this movie will be a thoroughly worthwhile recast of TOS and a genuinely bright new beginning for this franchise ~ not just a kick in the exhaust to keep the old bus chugging along for a few more years to wring money out of it.
I don't think that's being unreasonable.
#68
Posted 29 July 2007 - 07:07 AM
#69
Posted 29 July 2007 - 07:16 AM
It's their right, but if people will boycott the movie without knowing anything about the story or the cast, how could the producers please them, even if they release the greatest movie ever?
I don't think anyone is saying bad Trek is better than no Trek. Who knows if this movie will be good? Some think they know, but they can't possibly.
Sybeck, it's your right to feel how you feel. Is it closed-minded? I think so, but so what? My opinion on your entertainment preferences has as little effect on you as your opinion on this production has on me.
However, your viewpoint sounds very similar to TOS fans who boycotted TNG. Where you're saying "Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley are Kirk, Spock and McCoy", they said "Kirk, Spock and McCoy are Star Trek." Their boycott had no effect (not that you're doing this to affect something) and they only robbed themselves of the enjoyment of a great show, IMO.
Personally, I know that I'm never going to see William Shatner star as the hero of another filmed Trek adventure. That's a shame, but it's life. But, as much as I love the actor, I love the character more. If there's a chance I could get another batch of quality Kirk adventures, I have to embrace the possibility.
#70
Posted 29 July 2007 - 08:29 AM
I never saw TOS as campy, then again i saw it back when the show was ahead of its time and before shows had obscene amounts of money to spend on costumes or CGI shots. I imagine many young fans of the Mission Impossible movies would be bored stiff with the original Mission Impossible series just as many young Star Trek fans dont like TOS. TOS was made 40 odd years ago and its doubtful that many young folks will see it as the generation that watched it in its infancy.
I think everyone here has a right to their own opinion concerning the new Star Trek production, and we should not belittle others opinions. There are a wide variety of opinions, and it seems that age and what Star Trek show you grew up watching seems to influence your opinions to some extent. I myself grew up watching TOS and it will be hard for me to accept a new TOS crew, but the parts i talked about earlier, Story,performances,director and effects could win me over and breath new life into the franchise.
Speaking of boycotts, i was quite upset with DST's TWOK line and had refused to buy into it until they released some info about a Spock figure, and now that ive seen it and how good the Spock figure looks, i am extremely excited about this line. Some will say patience pays off, but i say "A little information, please" works wonders to appease people's fears. I think a little more info about the upcoming Star Trek movie would help appease those who are extremely apprehensive about a new TOS crew. I have to say that the info about Leonard Nimoy appearing in the new movie has given me new hope that it may be something to look forward to. I just hope that Nimoy's Spock isnt telling this story from his death bed. We have already seen Spock die once and thats quite enough.
#71
Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:18 AM
I hate to say this but in fact the world is different now. Why do I worry that ANY sort of Trek movie will fail? Because the world is different then it was even five years ago. The younger generations of today, the movie going drop my dollars on this generation of today is used to having everything instant and seems to feel cheated when they have to wait for anything. They feel like their lives are not what they should be if Bob has a nicer cell phone then they do. We live in an instant word. Some small examples,instant meals, you can call anyone anytime with cells phones, if you don't really want to talk, send a text, send them an e-mail on their phone, instant music downloads, four hundred channels on TV. Why wait for a minute to see if anything about the program is any good? There are Three Hundred and Ninety Nine other channels that I can run too. I can not think of one single person that I know that does not try to watch at least two programs at once. IF and that is IF they stay on one program as soon as the ads start, they are channel surfing again. We want it NOW and sometimes we don't even know what it is that we really want, but we want it now. I'm a bit nervous that if they make a great movie, with a great story, with a great cast, and it does not have enough of those pan in and pan out, crazy MTV hold my short attention span style shots, the generation of today won't be able to set through a ninety minute SciFi story with a great plot and not enough "fast action" Why will my son, who is Sixteen, only watch Nemesis? Because it's the one that is most like that high speed "MTV style" filming. For an example, the new BSG has to much thinking for this MTV generation or it would be an even bigger hit. The only reason that the fifteen to thirty group watches it all I bet is that it's dark.
This new movie will not fail because some great fans don't like it. It will fail if it does not bring in the bucks to make money and that means getting these, I go to the mall with my ten friends, types to drop the money to see it.
#72
Posted 29 July 2007 - 10:42 AM
However, I've liked every series of Trek on TV including Enterprise. But what pissed me off so much about Enterprise wasn't the series, it was the way they ended it.
Worst. Series. Ending. Ever!!!
I'm pretty much hoping for the best with this movie as I think that it will either make or break the franchise. I've long since gotten past the fact that we're not going to see "our" Kirk, Spock, and McCoy on the big screen ever again unless it's played by different actors.
And as long as they can do the characters justice, that's fine by me.
-Kyp
#73
Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:22 AM
This new movie will not fail because some great fans don't like it. It will fail if it does not bring in the bucks to make money and that means getting these, I go to the mall with my ten friends, types to drop the money to see it.
This sums up the state of things these days. I dont like it but this is the "Instant Generation".I think this generations instant gratification penchant is the reason why so many bad decisions are made and why we have so much dysfunction in our lives. Patience is something young people dont seem to have anymore and therefore they dont think through decisions before they make them and have to live with the consequences of those bad decisions.
I am hopeful that the new movie will be good, but this opinion could change either way as we begin to get more info on it.
#74
Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:29 AM
If anything, TOS ought to be "my generation's" Trek, and TNG was the show I badly wanted to take it forward to reflect my generation having "grown up". In point of fact, I have loved every Trek incarnation to date, but I am a confirmed DS9 girl!
With regard to TOS being campy and cheesy, well, when I got my set of TOS DVDs I was rather expecting ~ after not having seen it through since 1979 ~ that it would be all those things, but to my very great surprise it's not! True, thehsbr, the acting style is somewhat different than you would see today, but I wouldn't call it bad having watched some seriously bad acting in more modern, "trendy" TV shows.
In fact (because I can't be bothered to type it all out again!) here is a paste of my reflections on rewatching TOS that I posted over at TU:
I've always said that TOS had an ephemeral quality of greatness that could never be copied or reproduced in Abrams venture, but now I've started watching TOS through on DVD, I am utterly convinced that Abrams shouldn't be going anywhere near this era or these characters.
Me finding the idea boring and unexciting is one thing, but I am now firmly of the opinion that recasting these characters is just going to be a sad parody...at best.
The biggest mistake Abrams and his crew are making, and something that many of the people who support this ill-gotten venture have said is that "TOS is all about good story telling", well actually TOS had some great stories, but watching TOS again for the first time in nearly 30 years, I'm saying that ain't it at all!
The greatness of TOS lies in it's character interraction beginning and end. I gave been amazed at how even the second-stringers like Grace Lee Whitney can put it all up there in a few seconds of screen time (and I am no talking about T&A, although I am aware that there are a few men who will fail to see beyond that ). Watching the early episodes of TOS has been amazing in that it has shown me how fabulously well-developed the characters are already, it's like Shatner and co have been playing these parts for years. It's like the actors know who their characters are, look comfortable in their own skins, and are not simply hanging around waiting on the writers to give them character development, and I'm going to have to say that TNG and ENT compare very badly when looked at from this angle. I choose my spin-offs wisely here because I felt DS9 and VOY were actually very good in this respect. TOS is brilliant because it hit the floor running, and it really shows how desperately wrong it is to try and recast these characters in a movie of all things! Paramount's biggest boob is assuming that the brilliance of "brand TOS" is in the characters that they can shake out like empty vessels and pop some wannabe into. WRONG! The characters are not brilliant at all, it was the actors that made NCC1701 fly ...nothing else, no big budgets, no CGI, no great stories. Roddenberry's great bird only got off the ground because amongst all the crazy adventures he was giving us, the actors made it seem so very plausible and believable.
Anybody who thinks a big budget and a hot-shot writer is going to save Star Trek needs to think again, because TOS delivers some real visual shocks with simple cut-away camera techniques that makes today's obession with CGI seem ridiculous. TOS is eminently watcheable even today because the quality of the performances (I haven't got to Walter Koenig yet, but there has to be an exception to every rule !) are so fine, measured, and seemingly effortless, the tired-old exterior of the ship footage and the dodgy FX simply pass you by. Even though Jimmy Doohan is struggling a bit to perfect that Scottish accent, already the great Scotty is in place. Nimoy plays Spock with so many nuances, he makes later Vulcans seem unforgiveably one-dimensional and stilted. Shatner isn't playing a man who's in charge, he is in charge! His ease with who Kirk is apparent from the get-go and he gives a great expanse of character for the other actors to bounce off. Yes, the writing's good, but all the great lines in the world will come to nought if you don't assemble a cast of actors that can deliver them. There is a knowingness in the cast's performance. It is unmistakeably an adult show, aimed at adults, and not the adolescent market that Hollywood seems to think it's so worthwhile courting.
I've been jumping up and down about Abrams for ages now just on the basis of what I already knew about TOS from watching it as a kid and teenager. Even before I settled down to watch it again as a fully fledged adult I knew it was going to be great, but even I underestimated how great.
Obviously thehsbr and I will have to disagree on this one!
#75
Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:34 AM
Likewise, but I have less hope than you!
#76
Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:36 AM
I'll see you guys on the toy threads, as I'm signing off the movie ones.
#77
Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:44 AM
This is what I mean. Five yeas ago you would have not heard anything before the movie came out. Now we are used to hearing every detail and deciding if we like it before we have ever seen it. We all have to have it NOW. Five years ago we would not even be having this talk due to the fact that we would not know anything about the movie and we would not, many of us, have decided that we just won't think that it will work. We might have had to wait and go see it in a real theater not read the entire script online six months before it came out.
#78
Posted 29 July 2007 - 12:02 PM
Twenty two years ago I helped set up a Star Trek fan club, and even without the help of the internet you can bet that the neswletter I was editing had every piece of juicy gossip on the forthcoming Trek movie The Voyage Home, and you can bet that we were mulling over whether or not we liked the idea of Eddie Murphy being given a role in it! LOL! Does anyone who was sentient at the time remember that rumour?? We already knew that the movie had a strong "conservation theme" and that two whales were going to feature in it somehow, and that Sulu would get to meet his ancestor (sadly excised form the movie).
Anticipation based on dribbles of information about upcoming Trek movies was always part of the fun.
The difference between now and then ~ speaking personally ~ was how excited I felt about Star Trek IV, something that I can't say I feel today....yet.
#79
Posted 29 July 2007 - 12:51 PM
Twenty two years ago I helped set up a Star Trek fan club, and even without the help of the internet you can bet that the neswletter I was editing had every piece of juicy gossip on the forthcoming Trek movie The Voyage Home, and you can bet that we were mulling over whether or not we liked the idea of Eddie Murphy being given a role in it! LOL! Does anyone who was sentient at the time remember that rumour?? We already knew that the movie had a strong "conservation theme" and that two whales were going to feature in it somehow, and that Sulu would get to meet his ancestor (sadly excised form the movie).
Anticipation based on dribbles of information about upcoming Trek movies was always part of the fun.
The difference between now and then ~ speaking personally ~ was how excited I felt about Star Trek IV, something that I can't say I feel today....yet.
I agree with Jules. I used to read "Starlog" magazine which usually had info about upcoming movies, especially rumors and such, long before the movie ever came out. We might not have had a forum like this to express ourselves about it but we surely kept up with the info coming out. Starlog began before STTMP even came out so ive been reading up on upcoming Star Trek movies for quite some time.
#80
Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:58 PM
Twenty two years ago I helped set up a Star Trek fan club, and even without the help of the internet you can bet that the neswletter I was editing had every piece of juicy gossip on the forthcoming Trek movie The Voyage Home, and you can bet that we were mulling over whether or not we liked the idea of Eddie Murphy being given a role in it! LOL! Does anyone who was sentient at the time remember that rumour??
Yeah, Jules, I remember that. I heard years later that Paramount decided not to waste two stars, Murphy and Star Trek, on one movie. So, mercifully, Eddie went and made The Golden Child instead.
But, FHC is right that it's a different environment. You got some rumors back then, but not with the volume and speed of today. With e-mail, cell phone cameras, blogs and YouTube, nothing can be kept secret for very long. Even the Quinto announcement, which would've been a surprise years ago, had been expected for weeks and was confirmed days before Comic-Con started.
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