26 replies to this topic

[tuvok47]

Is it too early to start speculating about toy rights?

 

http://www.startrek....es-january-2017

[Alteran195]

http://www.trektoy.c...?showtopic=5662

 

Already a topic on it.

[tuvok47]

A topic on the toy rights as related to the new series?  I think you may have pasted the wrong link.

[Alteran195]

A topic on the toy rights as related to the new series?  I think you may have pasted the wrong link.

Misread your post, sorry. 

 

If it gets big enough I'd imagine Hasbro or Playmates would get them. 

[1701D]

I reckon Diamond will probably have them as I believe this will be a Prime Timeline series and aimed at the older (teenagers - death) Star Trek fans who have already amassed a sizeable Star Trek toy collection.

[Alex]

Misread your post, sorry. 

 

If it gets big enough I'd imagine Hasbro or Playmates would get them. 

Alteran, I'm not entirely sure about that. From what I remember about the "old" Viacom split into CBS and "new" Viacom, CBS retained the rights to all Trek TV shows and the franchise overall while Paramount retained the rights to distribute the movies. As a result of this, the licenses for anything related to the "prime" universe were left largely untouched, while the licenses related to new movies were where things got chaotic. While things could have changed since then, at the time of the split I seem to remember DST's license being described as applying to "current and future Trek TV programs," which would mean that they would have the rights to this series assuming that 1) the wording in their contract with CBS Inc. is the same as before, and 2) the new show is legally considered a "TV series" for licensing purposes. (Which could be the case with and possibly even without the premiere being distributed on broadcast TV.) However, I wouldn't encourage anyone to get too excited just yet; even if this is the case and DST does have the license for the new show, we probably won't see anything until season 2 or 3. Voyager action figures didn't show up right when Voyager premiered, and I don't believe the ship was produced as a toy until the third season after Playmates had a chance to get the finalized design specs and create their mold. Enterprise launched with a toyline attached to a show that nobody was interested in, and Art Asylum wound up (literally) paying for it in the form of perpetual peg–warmers. Having the ship ready at the get–go was possible because Art Asylum just worked off of the same CGI model as the studio, just as they did with the Enterprise–E. I could understand if DST didn't want to touch this for a good two years even if they had the license to it as a result of what happened with Enterprise and Nemesis, but I would hope that they'd work off of the CGI filming model again when it came time to do the ship. Given that this is a streaming series, I doubt that Hasbro will have much interest in it, (they didn't even put out a proper toyline for the movie that they had the rights too,) and after the last Playmates line went down in a blaze of glory, I don't think we'll see them near Trek again anytime soon unless it's in the form of "sculpts by DST distributed by Playmates Toys" to meet mass-market production demand. (Which come to think of it, was supposed to happen with a series of TOS figures if the last Playmates line hadn't tanked. DST sculpted them, but Playmates never got them out the door.) I'm honestly not expecting anything earth–shattering with the toy license here, which is probably a good thing if this is a prime universe show that's done well.

[1701D]

If DST does have the licence to produce toys based on a new TV series, you'd bet your bottom dollar that CBS will want a line to launch with or as close to as possible the new series. My guess is that if DST are indeed licence holders that we'll see product shown at the 2017 SDCC.

[Alex]

If DST does have the licence to produce toys based on a new TV series, you'd bet your bottom dollar that CBS will want a line to launch with or as close to as possible the new series. My guess is that if DST are indeed licence holders that we'll see product shown at the 2017 SDCC.

Assuming that DST does indeed have the license, (again, it's possible that things have changed,) and assuming that the show is successful, I would say that you're probably right about products being shown at SDCC 2017, and ultimately launched sometime in 2018. The key word here though is "successful;" Enterprise had its toy line launch in the second season while ratings continued to crater, and Paramount was the one forcing Art Asylum to continue the show's toy line even after it had problems selling. I could see DST wanting to see some signs of success before they jump on this unless CBS Inc. directly forces them to do it, and Trek in general isn't the kind of property that gets a toy line right out of the gate. (Even the wildly successful Game of Thrones had to wait a couple of seasons before it really got a proper toyline.) Actually, I think an NYCC 2017 introduction for toys would be far more realistic, and I wouldn't expect to see any ships in the initial wave either. Action figures (assuming DST would revive their line,) would likely be limited to a few key crewmembers at first, and we'd probably get phasers and tricorders, especially if CBS Inc. decided to do what they (wisely) did with Enterprise and use the toys as "dummy" props for wide shots, giving DST a reason to crank them out quickly. (Heck, Art Asylum's Phase Pistol was so good that it actually managed to be used as a "hero" prop in Enterprise season four at one point, so I could definitely see something similar being done with this show.) Additional crewmembers would likely follow in wave two with a ship following after that. We've seen what happens when ships are sculpted from pre–production materials before, and the end result wasn't pretty; it'd be better for DST to wait until they have a finalized design to crank something out, especially since the demand will still be there if the show is successful. There's still demand for DST to get the rights to produce the JJ–prise at some point, so I would hardly say that they need to have the ship ready early on. Phasers and tricorders are another story for reasons noted above though. I would hope DST would do action figures, but I'm honestly not sure given that the line seems to be on indefinite hiatus.

[robster]

I would hope merch from a new tv show would be out long before 2018! And REALLY hoping we'll have NOTHING from Hascrap. I love junk and cheap tat,but draw the line at the junk they churn out. Still not bought any of their SW TFA stuff,and seems less and less likely that I will. Did buy a couple of Spidey items in the last five years,but that's about it.

 

Wishful thinking would be Playmates,but I'm open to quite a few others as well,like NECA,Mattel,even the ReAction line.....LOL!

 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm on the fence about the whole series,need to see casting and ship designs first. And of course,reading comments about this on various other sites really hammers home what a LOT of Trek fans are like,lol! Having fun reading the comments though.

 

J-R!

[Alex]

I would hope merch from a new tv show would be out long before 2018! And REALLY hoping we'll have NOTHING from Hascrap. I love junk and cheap tat,but draw the line at the junk they churn out. Still not bought any of their SW TFA stuff,and seems less and less likely that I will. Did buy a couple of Spidey items in the last five years,but that's about it.

As a fan and collector I kind of feel the same way that you do, but knowing what goes into a TV production and having tracked other toy releases before, I'm suggesting 2018 as a more realistic timetable. The show doesn't premiere until January 2017, and while something could be rushed out the door based on pre–production information from 2016, we've seen that done before and it just doesn't end well. I'd rather have a solid, accurate toyline that Trek deserves than one that's wildly inaccurate and rushed out the door early on. Based on past experiences, packaging is typically finalized a year in advance of a mass "retail–release," which means that for a line that's larger than what we're currently getting, finalized packaging would need to be ready by this January, and that's just not a realistic expectation. Then there are the toys themselves. Enterprise had a toyline by 2002, but that was because Art Asylum was willing to sink a small fortune into it, and Paramount was willing to really make a huge push for their then–new licensee. The action figure line was done by creating a 3D scan of the actual cast using Gentle Giant's digital imaging technology; each of those scans was significantly more expensive than a traditional sculpt, although it did yield some amazingly realistic action figures. The NX–01 was arguably one of if not the most complicated toy in the line, but Art Asylum was able to get exact copies of the digital files for the filming model used by Paramount, and to then use those to create the mold for the toy. According to people who were involved with this at the time, that not only made it more accurate than anything we'd seen before, but it shaved months off of the process of sculpting the ship. The electronics were still the most complex element, but the were less complex than they are now by virtue of only requiring sound FX and some lighting that Art Asylum was able to put together pretty easily. Trek Tek followed, and was partially "subsidized" by the production itself since they bought a bunch of the Trek Tek toys to use as props on the show, which allowed Art Asylum to develop them at a speed they might not have otherwise been able to. While this could potentially be done again, it's an extremely expensive method to get things out the door as quickly as possible when a bit more patience would allow things to be done on a much lower budget and still yield a comparable quality toyline without the rush that Enterprise had, and that Art Asylum quite literally wound up paying for. DST hasn't had to do the kind of distribution that was required for Enterprise, so this hasn't been an issue with more recent toy releases. Playmates tried to shove a line out the door, and it wound up tanking because of how many corners they had to cut to hit their deadline, and the fact that the stuff that was done well was released in a counterintuitive fashion that effectively killed the line.
 
Also, while I'm normally with you on a lot of what comes out of the Hasborg Cube, I have to defend at least a portion of the SW TFA line. "The Black Series" has some really nice items in it, particularly the "Titanium Series" ships that started their life as Micro Machines "Metal," became "Titanium Series" several years ago, and are now "The Black Series Titanium Series," having lost the "Micro Machines" monniker. The Resistance X–Wing is extremely impressive, and even if some parts aren't perfect on each ship, the attempts that were made compared to previous releases, (fully retractable landing gear and moving S–foils,) are at the very least highly ambitious. I'm quite pleased with the updated Millennium Falcon as well, and am thrilled to have these available again. Likewise, actual SW Micro Machines are finally on store shelves again, and I'm over the moon about that. I've already preordered certain sets and will likely buy more as these were always some of my favorites when I was younger and remain so to this day. The only thing about this that "annoys" me is that Trek didn't get the same treatment when the Hasborg Cube grabbed the license for it. What's the excuse for not pumping out Trek Micro Machines the way SW Micro Machines are (thankfully) being pumped out again? If Hasbro put this kind of effort into their ID line, I'd have swooped up an entire Micro Machine armada, especially if they included the kind of new and old obscure ships that SW seems to be having mixed in with the more recognizable ships of the past. The SW TFA line is far from perfect, (Why didn't it launch with a proper Resistance X–Wing?) but it's hardly as bad as some of the Hasborg Cube's other travesties, or that joke that they passed off as a Trek line that seemed "cloaked" as far as actually being on store shelves was concerned. I'd honestly be happy of their contribute to Trek was simply bringing back the Micro Machines line, and my empty wallet will happily reflect that.
 

Wishful thinking would be Playmates,but I'm open to quite a few others as well,like NECA,Mattel,even the ReAction line.....LOL!

If it's not DST I wouldn't mind Mattel or NECA getting the line. My only worry would be that if NECA got the line, it would reduce the chances that DST would ever have a shot at it. If Mattel got it, I think there'd still be a chance that DST would be able to do some collector's items for it like their gorgeous ships. (This is of course assuming that DST doesn't already have the license.)

 

Playmates would have been an interesting choice before I saw how badly they botched the '09 movie line that was handed to them on a silver platter. They could have easily churned out 7" or 4.5" figures that would have been comparable to AA/DST's 7" line or their own old 4.5" line and brought old collector's back into the fold, but went with 3.5" and 6" figures that only alienated a good portion of their collectors. Their JJ–prise looked like it was used as a notepad by a lawyer with all the legal copy on it, and as bad as that was, the baffling decision to have it randomly spit out sounds pretty much made me decide to skip it. (They had decent ideas but botched the execution.) The ship felt like it was designed by someone who knew DST's ships were successful, but didn't understand why they actually worked. The less said about the incomplete bridge, the actual release schedule of the figures, and the TOS line sculpted by DST that we never got, (which would have presumably given DST a chance to do some JJ–verse stuff,) the better. Given how well the movie did there was no excuse for that line to fail other than incompetence in its development. I just want whoever winds up getting the rights to handle the line competently, and Playmates Toys no longer has be convinced that they can do that.
 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm on the fence about the whole series,need to see casting and ship designs first.

I do agree with you on the "wait and see" approach for a decent amount of information about this series. However, I also think that it's best to address potential concerns with it early on so that they can be taken into consideration before it launches. Our speculation and complaints might not do anything, but then again, they might wind up being seen by someone at CBS Inc. who has some pull and is able to ensure that the show avoid certain pitfalls. Casting is obviously incredibly important, and I'd feel a lot better about ship designs if Doug Drexler or John Eaves were involved, but it's possible that someone like Tobias Richter could develop an awesome ship design for this series as well. I can fully understand why some fans are justifiably skeptical at this stage though, especially given what was mentioned in that press release.

[robster]

WOW Alex,thank you for a very nice and thorough reply! And I agree with you on just about all of it. Lot of info there that I didn't really know about as well,thanks.

 

That said,I actually liked the last stuff Playmates did for Trek. Yes,it's STILL annoying I'll never have a complete bridge,but life goes on. And yes,I DID look lovingly at the SW MM stuff,always loved my MM. And if there's anything I would be buying from the new movie that's from Hascrap,it'd be that,and MAYBE some of the 6" Black Series figs. Wanna see the movie first though.

 

And a big YES to Tobias Richter! I LOVE his work! The gorgeous renderings I have saved on my laptop,and he even makes the new movie Enterprise look gorgeous! Gotta ask him sometime to do a J,lol!

 

Thanks again Alex,I always love a thoughtful post even though mine almost never are,lol!

 

J-R!

[Jay K]

On the subject of Tobias Richter, and how Art Asylum made the NX-01, I wonder why DST don't use Tobias's digital recreations of the ships (sorry for bringing it up again, but the Defiant is a fine example) for their toys?

[s8film40]

I would love to see Playmates get back into their ST action figure line! They've done a great job with the TMNT line. I f they could do the same and keep in the same scale, re-release some older figures and finish off some of the older lines at the same time as producing stuff for the new show that would be amazing! I think it will all depend on how successful the new show is, I'm sure it being streaming only doesn't help build confidence for the toy companies, but streaming is the future after all.

[1701D]

Star Trek is in a different place today than it was in the early 2000's though. Theres a massive hunger for a new Star Trek show, especially if its set in the Prime Timeline  and whilst Enterprise came off of the back of a non-stop 18 year run, this series is coming into the world after a 12 year break between TV series. If its Prime Timeline as well as being set far enough in the future from TNG etc for new fans to easily get into... Then this could be huge... TNG huge.   

 

My preference would be for Diamond Select. I'm quite critical of DST but they do understand the Star Trek universe and ultimately they appeal to an older crowd of collectors. Since this Star Trek show is being shown online, my feeling is that there going for the students who watch most of their TV online and the older demographic with a more grown up, cerebral Star Trek series. That doesn't necessarily mean kids wont get into it but if you look at shows such as Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad and now X Files, they have or are getting smaller, niche toy lines made for the older fan. 

 

This isn't the 90's anymore and I think unless the Paramount movie franchise takes off leading into animated shows, the likes of a big company like Hasbro or Playmates who deal directly with making toys for kids, taking on something like Star Trek is probably not in their best interest.

 

Plus no company has been producing Star Trek toys longer than Diamond Select, a new series added to their already established line would just add to improve their Star Trek line and push it further into the public eye.

[Stargazer]

I'd like to hope that DST retain the rights to toys and figures, they really have done well over the years and I suspect that the range has struggled far more than a lot of people are aware of. With the new series, I will keep my fingers crossed that there is a mini renaissance with the Star Trek figures and we get a wave or two from it and that can only help classic sales, perhaps they may even merge the lines into a special collection of some description. I would also prefer that the new series remains universe-agnostic (i.e you aren't really sure what timeline it resides in because it is set far enough in the future where it doesn't matter....) at least, initially, just to appeal to everyone. I'd like it to be just as successful as a possible toy line.

[s8film40]

I'd like to hope that DST retain the rights to toys and figures, they really have done well over the years and I suspect that the range has struggled far more than a lot of people are aware of. With the new series, I will keep my fingers crossed that there is a mini renaissance with the Star Trek figures and we get a wave or two from it and that can only help classic sales, perhaps they may even merge the lines into a special collection of some description. I would also prefer that the new series remains universe-agnostic (i.e you aren't really sure what timeline it resides in because it is set far enough in the future where it doesn't matter....) at least, initially, just to appeal to everyone. I'd like it to be just as successful as a possible toy line.

While I agree that DST has done some great things with the figure line, they haven't released a new figure in over 5 years. If theres a possibility of them creating more that would be great but if someone else is ready to take the license and actually produce figures I would very much welcome that as well.

[1701D]

If CBS wanted a new company to work on Star Trek toys, now would be the time to change it up. With a new TV series launching a new line that would once again if successful would go back to TOS and TNG for future lines. NECA? Mezco? Funko? Each of those companies are doing or are going to be doing some kind of Star Trek product in the coming year and are more a direct competitor to what Diamond Select do.

 

The one thing DST has going for it is its ship line. It's not impossible to see NECA doing something along the same lines but the DST ships are unique to the Trek line. Even Star Wars, a toy line that to this day baffles me as to why they have never done electronic ships (beyond the short lived Kenner ships) similar to the ships DST do.

 

If DST do retain the rights then I'd like to see a totally new line of product from them. New action figures from all corners of the Star Trek franchise, new ships, props etc would be a cool way to go.

[DSTZach]

While I agree that DST has done some great things with the figure line, they haven't released a new figure in over 5 years. If theres a possibility of them creating more that would be great but if someone else is ready to take the license and actually produce figures I would very much welcome that as well.

 

We've released four figures in the past three years, which is four more than anyone else has released...

 

If DST do retain the rights then I'd like to see a totally new line of product from them. New action figures from all corners of the Star Trek franchise, new ships, props etc would be a cool way to go.

 

 

So far we've done two from TOS, two from TNG, and the next is movie-based. Other corners are of course possible, as Chuck has mentioned.

[1701D]

It's all very exciting! And I really do hope you guys end up with the licence that covers the new trek series but if you guys are the chosen company, I'd like to see more articulation come into your select figures (even if you don't get the licence, I'd like to see better articulation in your Trek Select)

[s8film40]

We've released four figures in the past three years, which is four more than anyone else has released...

And those are great and I think we all appreciate them! However they aren't new figures, they're just new versions of figures that were already produced. I know personally I only bought them for the accessories. I would love to see DST or anyone making new figures. In my ideal dream world DST would make 5-10 new 7 inch figures every year and simultaneously Playmates would pick their 4.5 inch line back up and produce 10-20 new figures each year.