1901 replies to this topic

[VulcanFanatic]

Its you're. Not your.

I am not surprised that you stoop to the childishness of criticizing someone's spelling on here when your arguments are usually childish anyways.

[Daysleeper]

1701D, yes I am a Trekkie. But why should I waste my time watching something I don't like? I gave it a chance, tried to approach this show with an open mind. I watched 7 episodes, discovered that I like none of the characters, that I find the writing ranging from weak to abysmal, that I don't like the look/design/music (the intro is downright terrible). Why should I go on watching it? I don't mind you enjoying it. In the meantime let me enjoy the Star Trek I like and stop insulting people who don't like something you do like. Different opinions shouldn't be a problem for someone who claims to be open minded.

[VulcanFanatic]

1701D, yes I am a Trekkie. But why should I waste my time watching something I don't like? I gave it a chance, tried to approach this show with an open mind. I watched 7 episodes, discovered that I like none of the characters, that I find the writing ranging from weak to abysmal, that I don't like the look/design/music (the intro is downright terrible). Why should I go on watching it? I don't mind you enjoying it. In the meantime let me enjoy the Star Trek I like and stop insulting people who don't like something you do like. Different opinions shouldn't be a problem for someone who claims to be open minded.

I watched 4 episodes, my opinion is basically the same of the show. However, it seems like the only way to sway a company today is in their pocketbook, and so making your opinion of this show known and hopefully gain enough momentum to make a statement to this network that their are a lot of Star Trek fans that want a return to what they consider real Star Trek, not the garbage they have been trying to pass off to us since Voyager ended.

[Gothneo]

Yeah, I agree with you on that Daysleeper. I don't think a persons fandom should be rated by if they like everything... in fact quite the opposite. I respect fans that are say, TOS/TNG only fans... or Fans of the new movies... you've basically said you don't care for it and its not like your trolling discussions w/o a frame of reference (e.g. dissing it continuously while not watching it).

 

I was talking with a co-worker just last week and he mentioned he and his wife were watching it so I asked him what he thought of it just to get another "unvarnished" opinion... and he echoed many sentiments that people like you have said as well... he said its entertaining... incredibly well produced... but struggled to describe why he, and his wife couldn't gush about it... ultimately saying "Wheres the hope". 

 

I then asked if he and his wife had been watching the Orville, and he lit up... saying we both absolutely love the Orville. I think that element of optimism and hope that Macfarlane has in The Orville *is* something that belongs in Trek.... and many fans have noticed.

 

Personally, I think the jury is still out on if its good Star Trek... and it may get there... but because its taking us on such a long dystopian journey... I'm not sure it can ever be "Great"... I don't mind that its serialized and not episodic.. but every few episodes I think they really need to bring it back to that optimistic humanist centric future... I kinda think they missed an opportunity to do that at least with the mid-season finale.  

[VulcanFanatic]

Yes, the hope and optimism is gone and that is in large part what attracted so many people to Star Trek over the decades past. Dystopian themes run through most movies and TV shows today, and so it is no surprise that depression and hopelessness runs rampant in people's lives today, especially the younger generation. People used to look at Star Trek and the original Battlestar Galactica as examples of goodness and hopefullness, now both franchises have turned to dystopian and hopeLESSness as their themes.I think movies and TV affect society a great deal today and to constantly churn out hopelessness and dystopian themes in cinema is actually having a negative impact on society. People really want hope because there is already so much hopelessness in the world. We want characters that are good and moral and will lead us to greater things,we don't need more dysfunctional characters as examples to look up to.

[1701D]

1701D, yes I am a Trekkie. But why should I waste my time watching something I don't like? I gave it a chance, tried to approach this show with an open mind. I watched 7 episodes, discovered that I like none of the characters, that I find the writing ranging from weak to abysmal, that I don't like the look/design/music (the intro is downright terrible). Why should I go on watching it? I don't mind you enjoying it. In the meantime let me enjoy the Star Trek I like and stop insulting people who don't like something you do like. Different opinions shouldn't be a problem for someone who claims to be open minded.

Thats fair enough, and to be clear, I have no problem with your opinion on Star Trek: Discovery... though I will ask you this question;

Have you ever had the same opinion on a previous Star Trek show and then years later changed your mind about that show?

I hated Voyager when it came out, the characters were weak, the stories just rehashed from TNG and the whole lost in space vibe out there alone... there were a lot of problems I had with Voyager, I didnt watch it.

That was until Id finished with Enterprise. Being the only Star Trek series Id not watched at that point, I gave it a go! And you know what, whilst its not the greatest series, its got some fantastic characters and character moments and relationships.

I wonder if as a Star Trek fan, youll at some point decide to watch Discovery...

Just sayin

[Gothneo]

I hated Voyager when it came out, the characters were weak, the stories just rehashed from TNG and the whole lost in space vibe out there alone... there were a lot of problems I had with Voyager, I didnt watch it.

 

 

I grooved on VOY... for me DS9 was off to a slow start, but once I got into and then went back and watched the 1st couple seasons I missed... I had a new appreciation for it.

 

But I think your message is that sometimes we're just too close to something and need to let it "age" a bit and come back to look at it with a fresh view. I thinks thats good advice... I know sometimes I re-watch something and think it gets better... but on some occasions it can go the other way.

[Daysleeper]

I liked every other series from the start. In the case of Voyager, I'd even go so far and say that I found it better the first time I watched it, noticing more weaknesses during the second and third times. And I was a huge Enterprise fan right from the start. It's my favorite show after TOS.

It's the same with the movies. I like 1-9, but I can't stand Nemesis and the JJTreks, and therefor I don't watch them any more. I gave Nemesis a second chance a few years after I had seen it on the big screen, and I found it just as bad as the first time.

[1701D]

But I think your message is that sometimes we're just too close to something and need to let it "age" a bit and come back to look at it with a fresh view. I thinks thats good advice... I know sometimes I re-watch something and think it gets better... but on some occasions it can go the other way.

People hate change. Not just Star Trek fans, just people in general hate change but the old adage of time heels old wounds is very apt here.

With every incarnation of Star Trek going right the way back to TNG and possibly even before with TMP and TWOK, there have been those fans whove really hated the changes made at every point but many fans eventually come round and after time, they begin to see something in a new light. Sometimes you might simply not like something, thats cool, but sometimes you might look back at Into Darkness and say, actually this might not be the greatest Star Trek movie, but actually there are some bits in it that redeem it as something I can justify as being great Star Trek.

I think there is definitely the sense that a very few number of fans are too close to the changes happening with Star Trek to see things in perspective. Loads of fans still want the continuation of Enterprise, others want a return to the TNG type of storytelling, and some dont really know what they want but they know what they dont like. So I do think that as time goes on, fans will likely warm to Discovery.

[Alteran195]

 time heels old wounds 
 

*Heals.

 

[Daysleeper]

I don't mind change, as long as the general idea and feel of the original are still there. And I don't have that with Disco. Let's take Star Wars as an example for a second. Episodes 1-3 didn't have the vibe of the original trilogy and are considered weak by a lot of fans. Episode 7 managed to get the vibe back (but was an obvious rehash of episode 4 with some elements of episode 5 sprinkled in). Change is fine, but a sequel/prequel to a beloved franchise shouldn't just take everything and throw it overboard for the sake of change. Disco is more a reboot than a continuation of an established universe, and the elements that made Trek this lovable and interesting franchise (at least for me) are nowhere to be found.

I talked to a friend the other day, asking him whether he's been watching Disco, knowing him to be a Trekkie. And he likes it. He wanted to know why I didn't, and I told him. And he said, "I can understand why you don't like it." and that was it. No argument, no insults, nothing of the sort. I guess he and I just have different things we look for in a Trek show, and obviously we perceive things differently. Another friend of mine really enjoys JJTrek, and he knows it is not my cup of tea. And we still get along and have the occasional Trek marathons.

But once you go online and have a different opinion, you're called close-minded, backwards thinking, not a true friend etc. I don't know if you get off on that or whatever, but I've had enough.

[Daysleeper]

One more thing: Has anyone here been told he or she can't be a true Trekkie because he or she likes Discovery?

What I mean is, people like me who don't like the show criticize the show, not its fans.

[Gothneo]

Daysleeper, when someone presents their views as an external expression, vs internal expression, they are attempting to present an argument as fact rather than opinion. Such expressions are often attempts to speak from a center of authority to delegitimize someones internal opinion... when done with such intention, to me this is the same thing as saying "your not a fan". 

 

I believe fandom can and should be diverse... and I think its ok for the shows to reflect that diversity, but sadly, online rhetoric seems to have turned towards relativistic externalization... and thus the difference between what you've experienced online vs talking with your friends directly. 

[1701D]

*Heals.
 

Bahahaha 😂

[1701D]

I don't mind change, as long as the general idea and feel of the original are still there. And I don't have that with Disco. Let's take Star Wars as an example for a second. Episodes 1-3 didn't have the vibe of the original trilogy and are considered weak by a lot of fans. Episode 7 managed to get the vibe back (but was an obvious rehash of episode 4 with some elements of episode 5 sprinkled in). Change is fine, but a sequel/prequel to a beloved franchise shouldn't just take everything and throw it overboard for the sake of change. Disco is more a reboot than a continuation of an established universe, and the elements that made Trek this lovable and interesting franchise (at least for me) are nowhere to be found.

Im not sure I agree with that. I think there have been a lot of Star Trek moments in this show and it most certainly delves into themes and ideas that are very much those that Star Trek has always entertained. I think youre partially right in terms of the look; certainly the Klingons look very different to what we expect them to look like in this time period.

I think however this is all just part of the over arching plot. I dont think weve seen the prime universe yet. I think what weve been watching is one of the parallel timelines Lorca had discovered through plotting every jump Stamets made. Did Discovery jump into the prime timeline as weve seen it in TOS at the end of episode 9? Or is it the Mirror timeline? Who knows, but what Im saying is that I think the writers and producers have made it very clear that they are aware of how different the show looks and I guess weve got to be willing to stay the course and find out if the writers were lying to us or indeed this show will end up looking like a genuine prequel to the established TOS look.


I think the other thing you and I need to remember also is that Star Trek is and has never been Star Wars. Star Wars is very much a singular timeline, it doesnt deal with hard scientific theories, its a fairytale in space - you expect that the universe will look the same, wherever they decide to tell their story.

With Star Trek it isnt that simple and theres no reason to suggest that Discovery wont eventually end up being the period specific series many fans want it to be. Just think, weve been watching all season, scratching our heads as to why this looks different and at the very end of the season, a jump occurs and they are thrown in front of the USS Enterprise commanded by a Mr Captain Pike... full on TOS recreation using the New Voyages sets dressed up to look like a pre TOS version of the ship.

Thats the beauty with Star Trek. It can be anything, go anywhere and really do anything.

I talked to a friend the other day, asking him whether he's been watching Disco, knowing him to be a Trekkie. And he likes it. He wanted to know why I didn't, and I told him. And he said, "I can understand why you don't like it." and that was it. No argument, no insults, nothing of the sort. I guess he and I just have different things we look for in a Trek show, and obviously we perceive things differently. Another friend of mine really enjoys JJTrek, and he knows it is not my cup of tea. And we still get along and have the occasional Trek marathons.

Youre never going to win an argument on the internet. Its a totally different way of communication. Youre talking to dozens of people who youve never met, who arent close to you as your friend is, we (and others) dont KNOW you at all so of course youre going to bump heads with us. The internet is not a very nice place to be honest, people are very angry and defensive on the internet, completely contrary to how they are in real life.

But once you go online and have a different opinion, you're called close-minded, backwards thinking, not a true friend etc. I don't know if you get off on that or whatever, but I've had enough.

There may be some truth in that but i think by and large, I cant see anyone here calling you backwards thinking or closed minded. I think its almost universally recognised that VF is a closed minded bigot but you, you just dont like Discovery and thats fine stranger! I mean ok youve not told us the reasons as to why you stopped watching Discovery but regardless of that, the above applies; this is the internet! You get a group of strangers together in one place who have no connection to one another apart from their own opinions on something they love and all hell will break loose.

Personally speaking, I dont actually care about what others say regarding Discovery, I have my opinion on the show and on Star Trek and no faceless internet comment is going to change that. Its interesting to read what others think and sometimes I agree but dude, dont take anything said on the internet so personally, you have your view and isnt that all that should matter?

[Gothneo]

Youre never going to win an argument on the internet. Its a totally different way of communication. Youre talking to dozens of people who youve never met, who arent close to you as your friend is, we (and others) dont KNOW you at all so of course youre going to bump heads with us.

 

1701D, I agree completely. What I enjoy in these discussions is to hear a view that may not be my own... its unlikely to change mine, but I can appreciate a different perspective. Typically the net is no real place for complete validation of anykind!

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

Hello!

I've not been here for a while so I'm pretty impressed I actually remembered my password to sign in!

I have been an occasional "lurker" and have read the comments about this new series with interest. I haven't actually set myself up to view this myself but it seems as though I might like Discovery.

Once I have had the chance to watch the first few episodes, I'll let you know my thoughts, but generally the reaction seems to be favourable with quite a few comparisons to DS9 ( my own favourite iteration of Trek).

[Gothneo]

Jules nice to see you posting again!

[VulcanFanatic]

Hello!

I've not been here for a while so I'm pretty impressed I actually remembered my password to sign in!

I have been an occasional "lurker" and have read the comments about this new series with interest. I haven't actually set myself up to view this myself but it seems as though I might like Discovery.

Once I have had the chance to watch the first few episodes, I'll let you know my thoughts, but generally the reaction seems to be favourable with quite a few comparisons to DS9 ( my own favourite iteration of Trek).

Actually there are quite a few Star Trek fans that hate Discovery. I liked DS9 , but this is no DS9. Welcome back Jules.

[1701D]

I think youll really like it Jules. Youll have some issues with bits but overall, I think youll definitely be compelled to stick with the series.

I have my problems with it, its clearly a show that has had problems in its development that bleed into the show itself, but its a show that has a lot of redeeming qualities, it is definitely building to something really great. The writing and acting is some of the best in any Star Trek show, the characters are complex, well developed in the context of a first seasons and the ideas and themes it explores are really a testiment to how well many of the writers understand Star Trek law. You can really tell that everyone working on this show want it to be the best show they can make, there is some real passion and dedication to Star Trek woven into something that tries to, dare I say, go boldly in a new direction, which is refreshing to see happen to a 51 year old franchise.

Its a really promising start, have a great time watching!