300 replies to this topic

[Alteran195]

Exclusives are supposed to be special. If someone wants one bad enough, then they will pay more to get it, I did that myself with the SDCC Exclusive Hot Wheels Enterprise being refit in space dock, I paid $75 for it when I know damn well it was a lot cheaper to get it there, and it's even cheaper now. It's one of those items I'm proud to have because not every collector will have it. That's how I view exclusives, yes, you have to pay more for them in the aftermarket, but it's a piece you can be proud to have because it isn't as common as the mass produced stuff.

Like I said before, collecting is expensive, and if you don't like the idea of spending more money on a rarer, cool item for your collection then you don't get it. If you don't put money aside for these kind of circumstances where an exclusive is something you end up really wanting then that's not the manufacturers fault.

Exclusives exsist as a perk for people that go to these different conventions, do scalpers jacking up the prices suck? Yes, but thats how the world works, they know there's people that will pay high prices for exclusives, I'm one of them if its something I want badly enough.

[Daddybot]

   Put it up for pre order, make people pay for it in advance,if you get to the magic number your looking for you make it, if not you don't. That way you make your fanbase happy and not just a few people. After all isn't that what it's all about make your fanbase happy. The one's who buy your products.

[VulcanFanatic]

 

RETAILERS like exclusives that draw customers to their stores. And while they don't want to be stuck with too many, they want enough to keep people coming and making purchases. That's why we did the translucent BoP for AFX, and it had to be a sizable run of ships to make the new electronics cost out.

 

We're a manufacturer, and we want people to be aware of our product line. But a new ship that does less than our other ships, is hard to see and is readily available through multiple channels... isn't exciting. If we'd done a regular run and offered it to retailers, I'm sure orders would have been diappointing. We wanted to do something special for Trek fans at SDCC, something that would get people talking about the line, so we decided to make this particular ship available only there.

 

And while a low run does get people talking, it also costs less to make than a big run, so there's another reason for us not to make too many. We're already paying for five other exclusives, a ton of giveaway items, plane tickets, hotel rooms and a booth at the show, so we didn't really want to make thousands of these things and ship them all to San Diego only to not sell them all and have to ship them back. Most of our exclusives are Minimates for a reason.

 

I've seen people say they'll stop collecting the line because of this, and while I understand that mentality, I'll just say that they'll be missing out on some much cooler stuff down the road. And the new people who discover the line because of the publicity will hopefully increase sales and make new ships more frequent or likely. Scalpers will always exist -- but I am willing to bet that there are fewer people scalping Trek ships than there are many other lines. 

You dont have to make thousands, make 250 or 300, put one hundred aside for your website to sell exclusively. You dont have to ship those to San diego and all of the people who cant make it to comic con have a chance of getting a ship at regular price, not a scalper price. Scalpers will scalp anything if it means making fast money. And yes, your right, people who quit collecting will miss out on stuff down the road, like more hard to find exclusives that scalpers will try to sell you for $299.00. You are not serving your core fanbase by making items like this. Why do you want to stir up interest among people who might get interested in DST Star Trek items only to get discouraged when its so fraking expensive to buy the stuff they want because you only make a small run with only one place in the whole world you can get it at regular price. Its like you are opening the front door and inviting in a new customer with something new and shiny , while at the same time kicking an established customer in the nuts and throwing him out the back door because you assume they are ALREADY buying so they will KEEP buying. This strategy took down Playmates enormous Star Trek line back in the day, why dont businesses learn? People say that Comic con exclusives are supposed to be special, let them be special, put a comic con sticker on them. Make people wait until after comic con before you sell them on your site. I have lived long enough to have seen much change in the toy industry, especially where action figures are concerned. A shortage of an item due to fate, such as the warehouse fire that destroyed much of the Mego Aliens figures inventory, made these items soar in price eventually over time, certainly not overnight. Manufacturer or retailer limited editions are soley intended to cause a frenzy among collectors that artificially inflate the prices due to the scarcity of the item. I believe it was in the 1990's that these tactics began being used and there has been controversy and dissatisfied collectors ever since. The Star Trek select figures that i saw at TRU look so good that i think Walmart and Target would even sell them, if your manufacturing could keep up with demand and you didnt go with impossible to find exclusives there too. 

[BadBunnyMike]

Exclusives are supposed to be special. If someone wants one bad enough, then they will pay more to get it, I did that myself with the SDCC Exclusive Hot Wheels Enterprise being refit in space dock, I paid $75 for it when I know damn well it was a lot cheaper to get it there, and it's even cheaper now. It's one of those items I'm proud to have because not every collector will have it. That's how I view exclusives, yes, you have to pay more for them in the aftermarket, but it's a piece you can be proud to have because it isn't as common as the mass produced stuff.
 

 

I agree on what everyone is saying about Exclusives, they ARE meant to drive people t their particular store, they spent the extra money to make sure they only had that product so then knew they would make a profit on them. But those Exclusives are a little bit more readily availible with the internet so it makes them easier to get ya know. But a particular convention like that the cost would be tremendous to go buy a $60 ship ya know, or pay 300 bux on ebay for it, and even then that is also a turn off for collectors ya know.

 

Now Convention Exclusives make sense too, but at the same time such a limited run of them makes it hard for an actual collector to get them because whose to say there arent 200+ scalpers going to the convention and bringing 3 people with them and buying up every one of them before anyone has a hope in hell of actually making it to the table to get one. I have friends going and she told me she will get me one. I emphasized that they needed to get to that table AS FAST as they can due to the limited number of them so she can get me one. But at the same time I still worry about them missing out on it. 

 

I also understand Zach's point of view, but DST usually doesn't do such a limited number of things. I think 1000 was like the least i remember seeing on something. Unless it was an autographed item, then it was a bit different. But 200...geez. I get they dont want to cart them around but wouldn't it make sense to do a run of 1000, or even 500, ship half to the convention and offer the other to retailers or on their site alone? It is just kind of a turn off for most collectors to have to KILL themselves to get something SO EXCLUSIVE only to have most of them scalped right off the bat.

[VulcanFanatic]

If this ship was made in 1969 with a run of 200, with maybe 25 of them yet still MIB, then likely you would pay a pretty high price for that ship, factors being how bad the owner needed the money and if a buyer was actively searching for this ship. Being this type of collector, it is a foregone conclusion that you will need to be prepared to lay out serious cash for collectibles, or get out of collecting that calibur of collectible. But for a brand new collectible, such as the SDCC ship to be intentionally made with a low number, with only one avenue of procurement at regular price, this is a disservice to current customers of DST. When an item is artificially inflated in price, you turn off current collectors, encourage scalping , some people pay crazy prices just to get the ship, then someone who bought it for regular price sells on ebay a year or two later at the regular price and you feel cheated and pissed off. A brand new ship isnt worth more than the regular selling price of the manufacturer, but the ship from 1969 will hold its value. Small runs that are exclusive to one event are just not fair to existing customers and should be available on the website after the event to give those who have spent so much money already on DST products a chance to get it at a fair price too. To say that if you are a collector, you should be willing to spend whatever it takes to collect what you want, or get out of collecting is absurd. People, including collectors should use common sense when spending money. If i had a family of 5, instead of going to the theater and spending more than $100 on admission, popcorn, soda, and candy, i would wait about 3 months, get the bluray for 19.99 or cheaper, and have all of the popcorn, soda and candy we wanted for about 5 bucks. Just because you want to collect something, doesnt mean you want to pay stupid prices for brand new items.

[DSTZach]

The Playmates line wasn't cancelled simply because the 1701 figures were limited -- or even because Playmates then reissued some 1701 figures in greater numbers. The fan base was in decline, plain and simple.

 

In 1999, Deep Space Nine was cancelled, Voyager was in its second-to-last season and the movie in theaters was Insurrection. With one underappreciated, outgoing show on the air and a less-than stellar movie in theaters, the fan base simply lost interest. It's why Playmates was making exclusive assortments for retailers at the end, and trying different scales, and why our numbers today are a fraction of what Playmates' were. There are fewer collectors now. We had to wait a long time to get our product back into TRU after the last wave of Abrams figures didn't move. You can say that Trek should be treated like Star Wars, but Star Wars has a popular cartoon on the air, and has been aggressively targeting children since 1999. That's how you maintain (or even grow) your fan base. Abrams' Star Trek was not kid-friendly, and kids buy toys.

 

And we didn't make only 200 ships to stir up a frenzy. This is not an unusually low number for an exclusive --  we only made 100 R2-Q5 banks for Celebration, and 250 Jawas for C2E2, and all of our exclusive Femme Fatales are limited to 100 pieces. We do low runs for shows to make the item special and ensure sell-through, and selling more of them online after the show would make it LESS special to the people who got them. If everyone could buy it online, how many do you think we would need for that group? Only 100? 100 would be gone pretty quickly, leaving even MORE disappointed people who tried and failed. And our store can't sell internationally -- so that's another group of disappointed people. By trying to include everybody, you have taken away everything special about an exclusive and made even more people mad.

 

Fans who can't get this ship will either find a way to get it or find a way to forgive us. There are far fewer completists for this line than there are the action figure line, or even the Minimates line, and we already serve collectors by keeping all of our ships in production, so they can get ships that would normally be long sold out. And most of our fans are very, very patient.

[VulcanFanatic]

The playmates line was in decline because they turned off collectors with exclusive figures that they couldn't get. Playmates tried to turn around their screw up with different scales, but the damage was already done. The collecting community is not like it used to be because companies want to put out inferior product for higher prices and think that because it has a "Star Trek" logo on it that we should be happy to get it and pay crazy prices to get it. Yes, collectors of DST ships have to be very patient considering how many years it takes to put out a ship out after its announced.

[FHC]

No not true, the 1701's were made to try and get people interested in the line again because sales were dropping off. I watched an interview with the then president of Playmates, Jim Garber,

 

and that was what he said. He said it made things worse, but they had to try something.

 

New Force says the same thing,

 

http://www.newforcec...rekref/1701.htm

[VulcanFanatic]

I never said anything about the 1701 figures. I collected until the "Redemption Data" and "Thomas Riker" figures were impossible to find, which was before the 1701 mess. This is when collectors became disgruntled and the line started going downhill. The 1701 thing was the same thing DST is doing now, trying to rejuvenate or create interest in the line, but all it did was piss collectors off worse.

[Alex]

People say that Comic con exclusives are supposed to be special, let them be special, put a comic con sticker on them. Make people wait until after comic con before you sell them on your site.

My sentiments exactly, VulcanFanatic. I should point out that I'm not opposed to the general concept of exclusives; what I'm opposed to are exclusives that are limited to 200 pieces and a single convention as a source of distribution. I wouldn't even mind if DST made this a "Comic Con Exclusive," and limited it to SDCC, NYCC, and other Comic Cons throughout the country. What irks me is having the ship limited to SDCC only, and to only 200 units at that; if DST was going to "reissue" this for NYCC, I wouldn't feel as bad about having the SDCC run limited to 200 units.

 

 

On that note, I'd be happy to trade my unique Nemesis Enterprise–E with the missing block of Aztec for one of these BoPs.

 

 

No not true, the 1701's were made to try and get people interested in the line again because sales were dropping off. I watched an interview with the then president of Playmates, Jim Garber,

 

and that was what he said. He said it made things worse, but they had to try something.

 

New Force says the same thing,

 

http://www.newforcec...rekref/1701.htm

You're absolutely right FHC; even though they had the exact opposite affect, the 1701's were supposed to bring customers back to the Playmates line. Their inability to stick with a scale started in '94 with Generations and that really hurt them; the 1701 line was really a last–ditch effort to keep people interested in their Trek toys. DS9 ending and Insurrection definitely didn't help things, but if Playmates had just stuck with their original 4.5" figure scale instead of fixing things that weren't broken, they probably would have been able to survive something like the 1701 debacle. The line wouldn't have been as profitable as it was in the past, but it wouldn't have been a total loss either. The 1701's were just the final torpedo to Playmates' warp core. Still, extremely limited exclusives did hurt them, and ultimately doomed their line.

 

Just to be clear, I doubt the SDCC BoP will have the same effect on DST that the 1701's had on Playmates, but I do think there are better ways to go about handling exclusives. I have no problem with limiting the BoP to conventions, or "Comic Cons" throughout the nation; it's the SDCC exclusivity coupled with the extreme scarcity that irks me.

 

Finally, the best way to beat the eBay scalpers IS TO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCT! I'm dead serious about this; no one should buy those ships that are going for $200+ dollars on eBay. Make the scalpers sit on them for awhile, make them continue to relist them until they're forced to lower their prices to something far more reasonable. "What's reasonable," you ask? Although it's double the retail price, about $120 dollars max is probably fair; at the very least, the seller deserves to make back the $60 dollar investment, plus the cost of CA sales tax in order to break even. Likewise they have to contend with eBay's idiotically inflated fees, so that jacks up the cost as well, and a seller is out about $80 before shipping. A $20 dollar profit is probably reasonable, and depending on the location of the buyer, shipping could be anywhere from $12 to about $20, hence why $120 max is probably fair. Buy–It–Now prices are now required to be 30% higher than an item's starting bid, so even ethical sellers could wind up with high Buy–It–Now prices on their listings. The scalpers shouldn't get a dime though; it's one thing to have a reasonable mark–up, but another entirely to gouge buyers who are desperate for an item.

[BadBunnyMike]

My sentiments exactly, VulcanFanatic. I should point out that I'm not opposed to the general concept of exclusives; what I'm opposed to are exclusives that are limited to 200 pieces and a single convention as a source of distribution. I wouldn't even mind if DST made this a "Comic Con Exclusive," and limited it to SDCC, NYCC, and other Comic Cons throughout the country. What irks me is having the ship limited to SDCC only, and to only 200 units at that; if DST was going to "reissue" this for NYCC, I wouldn't feel as bad about having the SDCC run limited to 200 units.

 

 

On that note, I'd be happy to trade my unique Nemesis Enterprise–E with the missing block of Aztec for one of these BoPs.

 

 

You're absolutely right FHC; even though they had the exact opposite affect, the 1701's were supposed to bring customers back to the Playmates line. Their inability to stick with a scale started in '94 with Generations and that really hurt them; the 1701 line was really a last–ditch effort to keep people interested in their Trek toys. DS9 ending and Insurrection definitely didn't help things, but if Playmates had just stuck with their original 4.5" figure scale instead of fixing things that weren't broken, they probably would have been able to survive something like the 1701 debacle. The line wouldn't have been as profitable as it was in the past, but it wouldn't have been a total loss either. The 1701's were just the final torpedo to Playmates' warp core. Still, extremely limited exclusives did hurt them, and ultimately doomed their line.

 

Okay I disagree with that paragraph personally. I LOVED the 9" line, and even the 12". They made those to get more Adult Collectors and just the average person walking down the aisles of Toys R Us to buy them. If an average Star Trek fan saw a bunch of the 4.5" hanging on the pegs and a few really cool 9" or 12" figures they would be more inclined to get the bigger "Collectible" Size figures rather than the "Toys" on the pegs. I myself preferred the 9" Scale the most

[Whirlygig]

I am enough of a completist collector, that IF I knew a ship I wanted would be at SDCC for certain, soon enough that registration for the event was still probable, soon enough that early bird air fare discounts and cheap lodging were still likely, soon enough that I could pull together other plans in the area and make a vacation out of it instead of just an expensive shopping trip, and, finally, if there were at least a few other sweet things I KNEW would be there and wanted, then I would seriously consider making it happen.

 

But we always find out what the exclusives are when it is more or less too late to decide to go, or at least that is my feeling.

 

However, in stating this, I have been forced to evaluate again whether I do really want this particular ship badly enough and while I'd gladly buy it if there were no SDCC hassle, it doesn't excite me enough to retroactively wish I had known and could have gone.  Since most SDCC items are simple variations on an existing product it is hard to get too excited about them but sometimes there is an entirely unique item.  If there were such a Trek item, I'd give it more thought, but, DST would never make a scarce amount of a unique ship at the production costs that would entail.  Part of me even suspects there are more of these than they let on and they will seep out through other avenues sooner or later.  

[Daddybot]

I canceled my pre order with BBTS for the Excelsior, but to late to cancel my First contact Enterprise. I will not buy another ship form DST  untill this is rectified in some way.

 But on the bright side of  this, now i  have the money to put  another Original Battlestar Galactica model by Moebius on pre order. I just don't like getting

bich slapped in then being told i'll find some way to get over it.

[Alteran195]

If this ship was an actual new ship, never made before or available anywhere else, id be upset about not being able to get it. But this is a variant, and its just a clear plastic ship, its kind of cool but if I wanted a cloaked BoP id buy the partial one with electronics and with exclusive audio effects. Who knows how well this ship will even look sitting on the shelf being clear...

 

DST is the only company making ships like these at relatively cheap prices, if collectors want to cancel preorders and not buy them then they aren't going to be collecting much in the large ship area of things.  

[VulcanFanatic]

I canceled my pre order with BBTS for the Excelsior, but to late to cancel my First contact Enterprise. I will not buy another ship form DST  untill this is rectified in some way.

 But on the bright side of  this, now i  have the money to put  another Original Battlestar Galactica model by Moebius on pre order. I just don't like getting

bich slapped in then being told i'll find some way to get over it.

Good for you Daddybot! A manufacturer telling the customer that they dont care if they have to pay $299.00 to get a $60.00 ship is pretty sad. 

 

If this ship was an actual new ship, never made before or available anywhere else, id be upset about not being able to get it. But this is a variant, and its just a clear plastic ship, its kind of cool but if I wanted a cloaked BoP id buy the partial one with electronics and with exclusive audio effects. Who knows how well this ship will even look sitting on the shelf being clear...

 

DST is the only company making ships like these at relatively cheap prices, if collectors want to cancel preorders and not buy them then they aren't going to be collecting much in the large ship area of things.  

The issue here is bigger than just this particular BOP variant, the issue is low runs of exclusives with only one outlet to get them at regular price. Next years exclusive MIGHT be an actual new item never made before or available anywhere else. Collectors need to tell these manufacturers what they think about these types of unfair practices in the form of complaints or maybe even to quit buying their products period.

[BadBunnyMike]

I canceled my pre order with BBTS for the Excelsior, but to late to cancel my First contact Enterprise. I will not buy another ship form DST  untill this is rectified in some way.

 But on the bright side of  this, now i  have the money to put  another Original Battlestar Galactica model by Moebius on pre order. I just don't like getting

bich slapped in then being told i'll find some way to get over it.

 

See that is the attitude that got the Playmates line cancelled in the first place...and will be the same thing that kills the DST Line. Don't you guys realize if we start "boycotting" the company over a variant then they drop the line and someone else picks it up and here we go again starting ALL OVER from Scratch with Kirk and Spock, Kirk and Spock, Classic Enterprise and before we EVER Get to anything unique again like we are now, ANOTHER 10 years has gone by..

 

Now allbeit DST had a like 3-4 year "down time" and didn't really realase all that much, but still I mean Do you guys really want to start over with a new company AGAIN? There has NEVER been a TRUE Electronic Excelsior made, Playmates never did one, so why woudn't you get it? Even if you are "mad" at DST over that variant Bird of prey...Just makes NO SENSE to me, and you will be shooting yourself in the foot over this at some point when the same old crap ig getting released for a billionth time when DST finally throws in the towel with Trek because of ignorance and intollerance like that

[Alteran195]

Good for you Daddybot! A manufacturer telling the customer that they dont care if they have to pay $299.00 to get a $60.00 ship is pretty sad. 

Because its completely fair to the people that pay a lot of money to go to these conventions to have the exclusive merchandise available online, right?

See that is the attitude that got the Playmates line cancelled in the first place...and will be the same thing that kills the DST Line. Don't you guys realize if we start "boycotting" the company over a variant then they drop the line and someone else picks it up and here we go again starting ALL OVER from Scratch with Kirk and Spock, Kirk and Spock, Classic Enterprise and before we EVER Get to anything unique again like we are now, ANOTHER 10 years has gone by..
 
Now allbeit DST had a like 3-4 year "down time" and didn't really realase all that much, but still I mean Do you guys really want to start over with a new company AGAIN? There has NEVER been a TRUE Electronic Excelsior made, Playmates never did one, so why woudn't you get it? Even if you are "mad" at DST over that variant Bird of prey...Just makes NO SENSE to me, and you will be shooting yourself in the foot over this at some point when the same old crap ig getting released for a billionth time when DST finally throws in the towel with Trek because of ignorance and intollerance like that

Completely agree, getting all up in arms over these exclusives and threatening to cancel preorders or not buying products from companies just seems childish to me. If you are a collector, then you know stuff like this exist and you should plan accordingly either by trying to go to these big events, or putting money aside to be able to buy them in the aftermarket. Exclusives are perks for people who spend the money to go to these kinds of events, so many company's do exclusives that if you boycott them all then there would be nothing to collect.

DSTs ships are the best that have been released at their price point, and they're starting to get to ships that have never been released before, like Excelsior, and it's a pretty safe bet to say Reliant is on the short list at this point.

[VulcanFanatic]

Because its completely fair to the people that pay a lot of money to go to these conventions to have the exclusive merchandise available online, right?

 

Just how many people do you think can afford to go to these conventions? I will bet that the majority live right there in California. How many tickets are available? After last years attendees get their tickets first, how many tickets are available then? What does it cost for lodging in San Diego? Round trip airfare, food, parking, rental car fees, etc.? Why would a company cater to a priviliged few that can afford a huge amount of expense to go to an event that is designed to advertise movies, tv shows and products , with exclusive items that they couldnt afford to even produce were it not for the core fanbase that has been buying their products for years. Basically a slap in the face to the people who made it possible for them to go to SDCC. Should i spend $2000 to $3000 just to have a chance at getting a $60 ship with only a run of 200? That seems infinitely stupid to me. Make a large enough run to sell some post convention on the website at regular price.

[robster]

I go to SDCC every year,and started going to NYCC as well two years ago. Flying over to the US every summer,October and Christmas isn't that bad. Getting tickets for SDCC IS though. Tickets for NYCC is so much easier. While I go to SDCC I stay in L.A and commute on the train since it's such a great train ride,I need that too,lol! I want the best of both worlds,so to speak,lol.

 

I don't mind exclusives,since I rarely go for them. If they have them and the line isn't a mile long,then I might pick up one or three. MOST of these companies DO sell'em online after the con,if they have any left. I know Hasbro;Mattel,EE and a whole bunch of others do. Hallmark does not,but they have their exclusives at both SDCC and NYCC,so they no longer have a SDCC exclusive with the logo on and such,like they had the first couple of years. I even found some SDCC exclusives at TRU in New York. So how exclusive are these things!?

 

And if you know someone who's going,you can always ask them to get ya the exclusives. If you really want whatever is exclusive,you WILL get it...eventually. At least that has always been my experince.

 

Zach,will you have any exclusives for NYCC? See ya at the cons,lol!

 

John-Robin!

[FHC]

Truth is that even if I never get one, I like limited pieces. But, I know full well that in time I will get one and at a fair price. Might take a while, but I will. Took while to get a lot of things I have now, but I have them. I like rare and hard to find. It makes the hunt that much more rewarding.