181 replies to this topic

[DSTZach]

However, I'm not quite sure I understand your reasoning when it comes to not wanting to announce in advance your choices for which new ships will be produced. For instance, the next Federation ship is apparently being worked on but its identity hasn't been revealed. I guess you don't want to risk negative online reactions to ship choices, but wouldn't negative reactions in this type of situation be informative? For example, if the new Federation ship was something like the Botany Bay, which probably would be very far down on most fans' want lists behind the Enterprise C, the Defiant, Voyager, etc., and fans made their displeasure known, wouldn't that help you guys to realize that a more profitable choice could be made? I would think that, in the instance of ship selection, you guys might welcome feedback before you made a final decision and went into the production stage?

 

Thanks for posting, Ensign, sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the same 5 guys.

 

When we decide on a ship to make, it is due to our perception of overall ship recognition/popularity (which does include input from online and Ask DST), understanding of the current Star Trek collectibles market, some input from our sales team, personal preference and cost/benefit. The last one is two parts: 1. would it work in our standard size/cost range (we can't pay to tool anything bigger than our current size and expect it to cost out, nor can we make something that is small and expect people to pay the amount we need to ask), and 2. are there multiple ships or ship variations in that class that we can plan on, as it is getting less likely (if it ever was) that there is any one ship variation that would sell enough numbers to pay for the entire production run (we usually need BD versions, refits, or other ships in that class that would share the tooling cost, or even use the same tooling).

 

When we announce a ship, we have decided that that fits all of our criteria. To announce a ship and then have people say "No, please do not make that ship," would probably not be anything we could act on. There is no way to accurately gauge the number of noisy dissenters against people who awould actually be interested in it -- after all, there is such a thing as a vocal minority. 12-20 people on this forum saying that they do not like a choice could represent a very small percentage in real life.

 

Heading off the next suggestion, "do a web poll" -- no web poll will accurately gauge the entirety of Trek fandom. We'd have to get over 50K votes to get any sort of useful reading -- and those voters are not necessarily buyers, so it's all theoretical in any case. The fans would need to vote on size, sounds, and all potential future variants to truly gauge which path would be preferable. And the winner would need to be ordered by the retailers, and if they don't have confidence in the vote, the ship or the product, then it's all moot. (We can't do it all direct.)

 

The next suggestion would probably be Kickstarter, to tie votes to dollars, but that's not really something a company with a budget does. It's meant to be grassroots, for companies with no capital. We have a development budget, financed by the previous ship in the line. If Hasbro is Marvel and Mattel is DC, then we're probably on a level with Archie, and Archie got a lot of flak for doing a Kickstarter campaign recently. Besides, we'd still be relying on orders based on artwork and photos, because if we were to prototype the ship, we would be more or less committed, as that is a significant time and money expenditure already, and a Kickstarter would be moot. As it is, Diamond Comics' Previews catalog is not too far off from a Kickstarter campaign. If the orders are not there (it still happens from time to time), the toy might not get funded.

 

Mainly, there is no way for a fan to know that they will not want a ship when they haven't even seen how the toy looks. It's bad eough with a prototype, which doesn't represent the final product, but a photo or still will never represent the toy in any way. A well-done toy may give a fan a new appreciation of a ship, whereas a poorly done toy of a ship they love on the screen may not ring their bell. Not trying to say "Let us tell you what you want," but maybe something more akin to "Trust us to act in your best interests, and the interests of the line."

[DSTZach]

Just read Luclin's post. Luclin brings up another good point -- items changing in development. You see something in development that goes away, suddenly the final product is tainted, when you would have been fine with it had you not known.

 

Even if you rule out showing prototype development, that is going to affect the information flow, as well. I can see a lot of questions cropping up after a ship announcemtent that we simply would not be able to answer until prototype development was done, for fear of that very thing.

[luclin999]

Well I love that the next ship is set to be the OS warbird out (hopefully) around the 50th anniversary.

 

There really aren't many OS ships left for them to do besides this one and the D-7 and the Warbird is probably easier from a production standpoint to make. 

 

Beyond that, they really only have "fringe" ships like the Botany Bay, Tholian, ect. or more variants of the Constitution Class that had brief moments on screen like the Lexington or the Hood which would probably have a very limited number of people willing to buy them.

 

That said, I personally would not mind seeing something like a "generic" Constitution Class ship being released which had all of the standard markings already applied but with the specific registry tags for each of the fourteen ships on a seperate decal sheet that would allow the buyer to designate the ship as any of them that they would like. Perhaps something like that could come with a sound chip that just included ship based ship sound effects and no voice overs.

That way, they could please both people who just want one or two variants as well as those who might want the whole "fleet" with just one release. I would think that this would be viable as the production costs would be lower overall than a totally new piece due to there being no new molds to produce.

[VorlonKosh]

Is the Romulan Bird of Prey really more popular than the Klingon D-7?

[Alteran195]

Is the Romulan Bird of Prey really more popular than the Klingon D-7?

It's certainly easier to make due to its simplicity. 

 

I'm still curious about it's selection, especially if variants is an important part of the process. The D7 has a lot more variant potential than the RBoP. 

[ensignmelkor]

Zach, thanks so much for clarifying for me what coming up with a new ship entails, it was really helpful--especially your explanation of your internal cost/benefit analysis. I know you guys do battle-damaged and alternate versions of ships, but it never occurred to me that the variant ships are such an important part of your planning! I had a feeling about ship size though--for example, there's no way a Borg cube could be made at anything approaching the correct size in relation to the ships already produced, and yet making a Borg ship that was only as big as the Enterprise-D would probably disappoint people, so I suspect this might have something to do with why a Borg ship hasn't been part of the line.

 

About the need for variant versions of ships or other ships in the same ship class to reduce tooling costs--if this is a hard requirement for every ship produced it does make me worry a bit because one of the ships I want the most right now is the TNG era Romulan Warbird. I don't recall any other classes or versions of that ship that looked any different in any significant way (or at all really). I suppose a battle-damaged version of it could be produced? Crossing fingers? Also versions of it from different episodes, like the version Troi commanded for a brief time in "Face of the Enemy". That one looked the same as all the others but it would have some incredible voice clips from Troi and the Romulan captain to differentiate it.

 

My other most-wanted ship, the Enterprise-C, seems like a lock for a battle-damaged version that would actually sell really well, as the fact that it was damaged was a big part of the story of its appearance on the show, yet there are probably plenty of collectors out there that would want an undamaged version too to look good on their shelves next to all their other undamaged ships. Also, Captain Garret and Tasha Yar voice clips would probably be a major selling point.

 

If a Borg ship can't be produced, have you given any thought to a "Borg-ified" version of some other ship that's in the process of being assimilated? A Borg-ified Enterprise-E or NX-01 would be very cool.

 

Here's a way out in left field idea that I'm certain you couldn't go for but I just thought I'd mention it. It always felt a little unfair to me that DS9 got rid of the Terran Empire in the Mirror Universe because it meant we couldn't get any more examples of various ISS ships. I was thinking one day about what a hypothetical ISS Enterprise-D would have looked like when it occured to me that, probably, given the Empire's reliance on brute force and overpowering their enemies, they might have abandoned the classic, graceful design of the standard Enterpise-D and ended up giving us an Enterprise-D that looked like the "All Good Things" version! The extra nacelle to give it superior speed and allow it to travel at high warp for extended periods, and the terrifying phaser lance that allowed it to punch through enemy shields with a single shot. That ship wouldn't be built to look graceful, it would be built to destroy things. It looks mean on the shelf! So this is my long-winded way of asking--is there any chance at all the licensors would go for "hypothetical" ships--such as coming up with what the Enterprises A-E would have looked like in the Mirror Universe? (Alternatively, you could sell sticker and decal sets that would allow us to customize our ships.)

 

Thanks for listening, Zach, and I'm looking forward to your next ship announcements!      

[DSTZach]

Is the Romulan Bird of Prey really more popular than the Klingon D-7?

 

It's probably been voted on somewhere or other by a few hundred people, and if we hadn't JUST made four different versions of the Klingon Bird of Prey, maybe we'd be making the D7. But we did, and you can't deny that the Bird of Prey has had a lot more "wow" moments in the films than the battle cruisers did in TMP and the series combined. So we're making a Romulan ship. It's just how things shook out.

 

Ensign, while variant potential would certainly be a question for the TNG Romulan Warbird, as well as the Borg ship, they're both ships where you have to look at how big it would have to be to look right, and that might simply be too big. With the doubled wings on the Warbird, and the four walls on the Borg Cube, it's a lot of material at any size, and a large steel tool to cast it in, so I think there were cost concerns. But both have been considered.

 

The customizing idea I have told people to send in to Ask DST, not sure if Chuck has shot it down already, but I really don't know what the possibility would be. I think it's a great idea, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. Maybe as a con exclusive?

 

The Mirror idea is one we've had. Not sure how CBS felt about it, though. Maybe some day.

[ensignmelkor]

 

It's probably been voted on somewhere or other by a few hundred people, and if we hadn't JUST made four different versions of the Klingon Bird of Prey, maybe we'd be making the D7. But we did, and you can't deny that the Bird of Prey has had a lot more "wow" moments in the films than the battle cruisers did in TMP and the series combined. So we're making a Romulan ship. It's just how things shook out.

 

Ensign, while variant potential would certainly be a question for the TNG Romulan Warbird, as well as the Borg ship, they're both ships where you have to look at how big it would have to be to look right, and that might simply be too big. With the doubled wings on the Warbird, and the four walls on the Borg Cube, it's a lot of material at any size, and a large steel tool to cast it in, so I think there were cost concerns. But both have been considered.

 

The customizing idea I have told people to send in to Ask DST, not sure if Chuck has shot it down already, but I really don't know what the possibility would be. I think it's a great idea, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. Maybe as a con exclusive?

 

The Mirror idea is one we've had. Not sure how CBS felt about it, though. Maybe some day.

 

For myself, I would have no problem with the TNG Romulan Warbird being the same size as the Enterprise-D. Technically the Warbird is supposed to be bigger, but it was rare that we saw that size differential in the actual effects shots, as far as I can remember. As for the Borg ship, I wouldn't be satisfied with it being the same size as the Enterprise-D, or even double the size of the Enterprise-D. If the Borg ship doesn't completely dwarf the Enterprise it just doesn't look right.

 

I can understand why you guys didn't choose to make the D-7 cruiser and I agree that the Klingon Bird of Prey is actually a much cooler-looking ship, and it had some great moments not only in the movies but in TNG as well, I do feel that without the Romulan Warbird though, that there will always be a glaring hole in this Star Trek collection. It's just a very important ship for the TNG era, and also it's probably the best looking of all the Trek alien ships.

 

It's extremely cool that you guys had the same Mirror Universe idea! I think a Mirror Enterprise-D is probably on a lot of people's fantasy lists. Also a Mirror Constitution class refit.

 

I'm assuming if the Romulan Warbird isn't a done deal yet, there must be similar concerns about making a Cardassian battlecruiser?

[1701D]

I'd say that in general the list of the most widely popular ships goes like this in no particular order and not including variations on each ship:

Enterprise D
Enterprise TOS
Enterprise refit
Enterprise E
Defiant
Reliant
Voyager
Romulan Bird of Prey
Klingon Bird of Prey
Borg Cube
Excelsior
Romulan Warbird
Klingon D7
Klingon Vor'Cha

Then you have your ships which are still popular but maybe only to a smaller group of fans who are dedicated collectors of Star Trek ships:

Enterprise B
Enterprise C
Enterprise NX01

And then the ships that are popular but aren't popular enough for DST to even consider making:

Ferengi Marauda
The Stargazer
The Farragut
The Pasteur
The Prometheus
Deep Space Nine space station
Borg Sphere
Cardassian Galor Warship
Shuttlecraft Galileo
Shuttlecraft Goddard
The Pheonix (I'm hoping this might actually get made at some point)

[ensignmelkor]

I'd say that in general the list of the most widely popular ships goes like this in no particular order and not including variations on each ship:

Enterprise D
Enterprise TOS
Enterprise refit
Enterprise E
Defiant
Reliant
Voyager
Romulan Bird of Prey
Klingon Bird of Prey
Borg Cube
Excelsior
Romulan Warbird
Klingon D7
Klingon Vor'Cha

Then you have your ships which are still popular but maybe only to a smaller group of fans who are dedicated collectors of Star Trek ships:

Enterprise B
Enterprise C
Enterprise NX01

And then the ships that are popular but aren't popular enough for DST to even consider making:

Ferengi Marauda
The Stargazer
The Farragut
The Pasteur
The Prometheus
Deep Space Nine space station
Borg Sphere
Cardassian Galor Warship
Shuttlecraft Galileo
Shuttlecraft Goddard
The Pheonix (I'm hoping this might actually get made at some point)

 

That's an interesting list--but Is the Romulan Bird of prey really that popular? To me it always looked like a fairly goofy ship in TOS, and even the HD version of it still looks goofy to me. Is the Excelsior really more popular than The Enterprise B? They're the same ship class, the only difference being that one is named Enterprise (and that's the version I own, anyway.) As I'm not a Captain Sulu fan maybe I'm out of the loop on the Excelsior's popularity. Also, I'd really rather have the Stargazer or a Cardassian warship over the Reliant. I juswt can't get past the fact that the Reliant just isn't a very imposing ship, and its original captain (before Khan took it over) looked like a game show host.

 

The Pasteur is a really interesting looking ship and it might be cool to have one. I actually have always wished that the NX-01 looked like this design, with the globe replacing the saucer section; it has a real retro feel that would have worked well for the 22nd century I think. 

[Jay K]

Ensignmelkor, it sounds like you're mainly a fan of the TNG+ era of Star Trek (at least where the ships are concerned), which if you are, then feel free to join me and many others on the slowest train to nowhere. Unless it's a ship called Enterprise, it seems DST just isn't interested in covering the next generation era at all.

Also, for what it's worth, in all my years on this board and the Art Asylum forum (bearing in mind that I joined here because they shut down the original Art Asylum forums, and I knew lots of people here, from them), I can honestly say that of all the ships I've seen people wishing for, I've not once seen the Romulan Bird of Prey listed. If anyone says as much as of recently, I'm inclined to think it's because DST are making it, rather than it being a favourite (there are exceptions of course).
I absolutely agree with the sentiments expressed by Alteran, in that because of its simple design, it's an easy ship to put out. I for one was/am gutted it was chosen to be made before the likes of the D7, K't'inga, Vor'cha, Warbird, and even the other main Federation ships such as the Defiant, Voyager and Enterprise-C (the reason I don't list the Reliant here is because I think it's a safe bet that it's the next ship coming up).

 

The most requested ships according to what I've seen are:

Reliant, Defiant, Enterprise-C (popularity of this choice has jumped in recent years), and then Voyager.

As for alien ships, those listed above together with the Borg Cube and Sphere are definitely the ones people seem to be clamouring for, followed by the Galor class (I'd love this one - big DS9 fan). The clear favourites really are the K't'inga and Romulan Warbird based off of what I've seen, and I'm sure others will agree with me there.

 

My own personal hopes for future DST Star Trek ships are:

Federation - Defiant, followed by the Grissom!!! anything else. Enterprise-C, Voyager, Nebula class, Equinox, Prometheus or indeed, Grissom, give me whatever you like, just give me the Defiant first please.

Alien - K't'inga (Kronos One particularly, with new voice clips of Christopher Plummer as well as David Warner!), followed by any TNG+ era ships. Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Jem'Hadar, the only ones I wouldn't buy are Borg (unless they were made really well, and not just flat textures...).

[ensignmelkor]

Hi Jay K!

 

Yeah, although I love TOS, as far as ships go I vastly prefer the TNG era. TOS really didn't have any interesting alien ships except for the D-7. The Trek movies gave us the Klingon Bird of Prey, but that was about it. I fell in love with Star Trek ship designs through TNG, since that was the first time they actually looked really good and detailed onscreen rather than just like random blobs of light (remember that this was before TOS was remastered for HD.) The Enterprise D, the Enterprise C, the Romulan Warbird, the Cardassian Galor class, the Borg, and of course the menacing Vor'cha class Klingon ship (which I much prefer to the D-7 from TOS.)

 

I'm really hoping Reliant isn't the next Fed ship because I have no interest at all in purchasing it. Since I'm also not at all interested in the Romulan Bird of Prey either that makes two ships in a row I won't be buying.

[Alteran195]

 

I'm really hoping Reliant isn't the next Fed ship because I have no interest at all in purchasing it. Since I'm also not at all interested in the Romulan Bird of Prey either that makes two ships in a row I won't be buying.

Based on the information we've put together from AskDST's and what not, the safe bet is Reliant. It's not my first choice, I honestly don't know where I stand when it comes to collecting anymore so I don't know if I'd actually buy it, or the RBoP at this point. 

 

The Reliant does fit in with their recent line though, the Excelsior, BoP, and Enterprise A were all from the TOS movies. That plus the 50th it would make sense to stick with something from the TOS era. 

 

 

 Is the Excelsior really more popular than The Enterprise B? They're the same ship class, the only difference being that one is named Enterprise (and that's the version I own, anyway.)

I prefer the normal Excelsior look to that of the Enterprise B, the extra bits they added take away from the nice, clean, sleek look of the Excelsior. 

 

I of course love the B, she's my second favorite Enterprise following the C, but there is just something about the look of the normal Excelsior that makes her stand out. 

[Razorgeist]

If the next ship is the Reliant I'll pick it up though I'd rather see the Defiant or Voyager first.  The only wild card ship I'd like to see DSt do is the prometheus.  Count me in with fans of the next gen ships.

[Alteran195]

If the next ship is the Reliant I'll pick it up though I'd rather see the Defiant or Voyager first.  The only wild card ship I'd like to see DSt do is the prometheus.  Count me in with fans of the next gen ships.

A Prometheus with MVAM would make me far more excited than any other ship DST could make. 

[robster]

J or bust! lol!

 

J-R!

[djc242]

Lots of good lists.

I'm hoping that if the new one is the Reliant then a DS9 Saratoga would be a variant. Lots of great voice clips from Emissary to choose from, even some choice Locutus moments.

[ensignmelkor]

Sigh...so I've been reading the Ask DST columns that mention Star Trek ships.

 

I've been assuming that the Enterprise-C would be made for awhile now, mostly just based on the fact that every other Enterprise shown onscreen has been produced. But reading over the most recent Ask DST columns, I saw that when a fan asked about the Ent-C specifically, the answer given was that the Ent-C's small amount of screen time was standing in the way of it getting made. I had assumed the collector's mentality of wanting complete sets would help give the Ent-C a push, as I assume there are lots of people out there (like me) who would feel forever just slightly annoyed at having a shelf full of Enterprises that's missing that single ship. But it seems now that the Enterprise-C might never get made...and between the Reliant, Defiant, and Voyager, Diamond Select already has a few different Federation ships to keep them busy over the next three years or so. Unfortunately, of those three, I'm only interested in one, the Defiant, and even the Defiant is more of a "well, if there's nothing else i like I guess i'll pick it up" sort of interest.

 

And Given DST's reluctance to make the Romulan Warbird, it's starting to feel like I just got into collecting these Diamond ships only to be ushered right back out again! Since I already own or have pre-ordered the 1701, the 1701-refit, the B, the D, and the All Good Things D, as well as the Klingon Bird of Prey, it's starting to feel like, now that i'm looking through all these Ask DST columns, that Diamond won't be making anything else I might want??    

 

I am so unbelievably sad right now. i kind of wish those Ask DST columns weren't there at all, because all they've been giving me is bad news...it's one thing to worry that your favorite ships won't get made, but it's quite another to read it coming from the horse's mouth that the odds aren't that great based on various intractable business reasons.

 

So based on my reading of the Ask DST columns, the situation for my most-wanted ships is as follows:

 

The Enterprise 1701-C: small amount of screen time means it seems to be on the back-burner at best, a non-starter at worst.

 

Romulan Warbird: it would cost a lot to tool and there might not be enough re-use potential to be profitable

 

Cardassian Galor or Keldon: same problem as the Warbird but potentially even less fan interest to begin with?

 

I do hold out hope that we might get the Klingon Vor-cha class at some point...some future point that might be years from now, alas.

 

I'm going to do my best to hold out hope and I'll keep following the news coming from this line...but I might not be opening my wallet very much from now on. Hopefully I'll be surprised. And hopefully I completely misinterpreted the answers from the Ask DST columns and the situation for my favorites isn't as bleak as I thought... 

[luclin999]

The most requested ships according to what I've seen are:

Reliant, Defiant, Enterprise-C (popularity of this choice has jumped in recent years), and then Voyager.

 

That seems about right to me although I can see the order of those four ships being juggled around a bit from person to person. 

 

Of the Alien ships I would like to see the D-7, Romulan Warbird (TOS), Vor'cha, and the 24th century Warbird. That said, I do have the (albeit inferior) Playmates versions of both the Romulan ships and the Vor'cha to use as placeholders until DS/AA gets around to them so for me the D-7 is the highest priority.

 

The same goes for the Defiant and Voyager. Since I have nominal substitutes for them I personally would like to see the Reliant and Enterprise-C hit shelves first.

 

And as to the Enterprise-C's "limited appeal" from a business standpoint, it may have only had a brief amount of screen time but I do understand the growing demand for it. After all, we now have every other Trek "Enterprise" available to us and as collectors the C being missing just leaves a very noticable hole in the line of ships.

[ensignmelkor]

 

That seems about right to me although I can see the order of those four ships being juggled around a bit from person to person. 

 

Of the Alien ships I would like to see the D-7, Romulan Warbird (TOS), Vor'cha, and the 24th century Warbird. That said, I do have the (albeit inferior) Playmates versions of both the Romulan ships and the Vor'cha to use as placeholders until DS/AA gets around to them so for me the D-7 is the highest priority.

 

The same goes for the Defiant and Voyager. Since I have nominal substitutes for them I personally would like to see the Reliant and Enterprise-C hit shelves first.

 

And as to the Enterprise-C's "limited appeal" from a business standpoint, it may have only had a brief amount of screen time but I do understand the growing demand for it. After all, we now have every other Trek "Enterprise" available to us and as collectors the C being missing just leaves a very noticable hole in the line of ships.

 

 

I completely agree with you about the Enterprise-C--I think the fact that it's the last Enterprise we need to complete our collections must add to its sales potential. As far as the Defiant goes though, I do think the Eaglemoss version is also an option, because at its small size--about five inches--it is actually in scale pretty well with the Diamond Select ships. If I get a Defiant at all (I always thought it's an ugly-looking ship, but I do respect what it did onscreen in DS9) I might go the Eaglemoss route, as I just don't think it will look very good on my shelf at a larger size.

 

I'm a little bit tempted to pick up the Playmates version of the Romulan Warbird and the Vor'cha myself. The only thing keeping me from grabbing the Warbird are those awful four buttons on top of its hull, and a general lack of detail (the lack of windows really stands out.) Is the Vor'cha any good?