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Solving the problems of pre-orders


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#41 Gothneo

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE (FHC @ Jun 2 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...So, while you're waiting, oil prices drop again, you hammer them out as fast as you can.


Sort of...

The daily fluctuation of the price has very little to do with the manufacturing cost.

This is because when you "develop" a line you need to cost it all out to the manufacture, so they basically purchase a "Future". The factory has the materials, they schedule a time to make your product. And even if that is scheduled 18 mos or 2 years in advance you have your fixed price contract.

It the only way you can cost it out.

Now shipping may be a bigger issue. Not if your a FoB manufacture, but DST isn't, so they need to arrange freight costs, and those could start to bite into the cost structure if not careful.


#42 FHC

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 07:51 PM

That is not true (sorry to disagree with you) as I run a company dependent on the price of oil to survive. To fill our tank that refills the trucks can cost up to $15,000.00 a month if the oil prices skyrocket. We can only buy so much at a current price because if you bought to much into the future, we could put the company we bought it from out of business. I have discussed this with someone in the toy manufacturing industry that I fully trust and after listening to him, I believe this to be one of the many problems involved, but it can be a major one. This would also explain why DST sent out so many preorders at the first of the year when oil prices dropped. DST does not have the size to buy plastic in sufficient quantity to lock in a price. Nor do they have the storage room for it to buy it now and hold onto it.

#43 TheHSBR

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:23 PM

Well oil prices havent quite skyrocketed unexpectedly. Gas in particular as always gone up in price over the summer months. The oil companies know this so in turn they automatically raise their prices as well. If all goes as usual, during Sept/Oct the prices should again drop. If DST is truly managing according to oil prices, they should recognize this before putting stuff out at Toyfair. The gas prices havent taken me by surprise and I think if we can stay under $4 this summer that would be a great blessing.

#44 New Frontier

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 10:12 PM

Oil prices have skyrocketed before it goes up and down all the time, it doesn't stop any other toy company or company from doing business, otherwise no one would have seen any Star Trek toys from any company, let alone DST - oil prices aren't the issue, the issue lies at the feet of what DST feel will sell and wont sell and what they feel is an acceptable risk to take and what isn't. What has happened in recent months is clear - DST are focusing on what sells, playing it safe because at the end of the day, they are not in it for the love of all things Star Trek - they are in it to make the most money - it's truly sad that this company have resorted to producing the cheapest figures and charging a lot when other specialist companies producing action figures like NECA, have remained focused on quality over quantity and cut back harshly on lines that aren't selling but never cut back on those that are.

DST seem to be scrapping a lot and not putting any effort into releasing exciting action figures - we are yet again swamped with re-used bodies, re-releases and variants. It would be ok if the Borg line had been canned and more effort into doing an entirely new, more focused line of TOS featuring entirely new characters and new body sculpts for each - but no.

You can end up blaming what you like for DST's lack of anything other than TOS product and their cheap is the best way forward with Star Trek, the simple truth is, they are not taking any risks - and unfortunately, by not taking reasonable risks they might have just shot their license in the foot - because it seems clear to me that they are either considering shelving the license or focusing on TOS and TOS alone and re-releases, variants, re-usage.

At the moment DST are all over the place, they seem lost and confused with this license. They need to get their focus back and produce some really nice action figures - limit the number to 4 really unique sculpts - leave the fans excited and wanting more - be consistent yet focused on doing quality over quantity and mix it up a little - rather than doing just TOS product, do figures that cross the entire franchise - perhaps starting with TOS and TNG and then branching out. Start again, re-sculpt characters like Kirk and Spock entirely, use a consistent scale across the line so that TNG figures match TOS figures scale. and similar to the Marvel select range - bring something else included with the figure to enhance the figures appearance when displayed. Follow the NECA type packaging rather than the Card. Give fans something to collect, give them bio's on each character on trading cards included with the figure.

Suggestion:

Wave 1:

Captain Kirk

M:III Salt Vampire

Lt Commander Data

Season 1/2 Tasha Yar (W/ Oil slick monster display base)

Ship:

USS Excelsior & USS Enterprise B variant

Role-Play:

WoK Phaser


Wave 2: (2011):

Mr Spock

Dr McCoy

Captain Picard

Hugh Borg

Ship:

Klingon D7 Battle Cruiser

Role-Play:

TNG Phaser



#45 Gothneo

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:29 AM

QUOTE (FHC @ Jun 13 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is not true (sorry to disagree with you) as I run a company dependent on the price of oil to survive. To fill our tank that refills the trucks can cost up to $15,000.00 a month if the oil prices skyrocket. We can only buy so much at a current price because if you bought to much into the future, we could put the company we bought it from out of business. I have discussed this with someone in the toy manufacturing industry that I fully trust and after listening to him, I believe this to be one of the many problems involved, but it can be a major one. This would also explain why DST sent out so many preorders at the first of the year when oil prices dropped. DST does not have the size to buy plastic in sufficient quantity to lock in a price. Nor do they have the storage room for it to buy it now and hold onto it.


Don't be sorry FHC!

I understand what your saying. And I completely agree when your talking about fuel cost. We both know that fuel actually has a shelf life so yeah, you can't really control something like that when your trying to cost out a toy line 18 mos in advance. Unless... you run a FOB operation, in which case it's the distributers responsibility to ship the product. But DST doesn't do this, so yeah I agree the cost of shipping makes a difference.

Now, I too have talked with people that have actually manufactured toys, and what they tell me is that a typical contract locks in things like a unit price, which includes all the raw materials, such as plastic. Usually that contract specifies a specific window when the factory will make your product. If you miss that production date due to your fault, the per unit price may change, but I digress. All the real money seems to be in the Tools and Shipping... not in the actual cost of the plastic... or even the labor really. For example I had a discussion about the cost of DC Direct (DCD) toys, a product that typically retails for $18 ea at B&M's, and I was told that actual cost to manufacture each was ~$3. That includes tooling, labor and all raw materials... but I don't know about shipping!

See it's not DST that has to buy the raw materials, it's the factory. The way I understand it, is that it's sort of like a group health insurance... the factory wants to keep running and keeping making product, but they have to deal with a number of (smaller) companies, like DST, so to be efficient they sell each a manufacturing slot, and bundle the cost of the raw materials together for them all. Of course if you can't commit to a slot, then you can't get the benefit.

All this may lend directly to what your saying... see if DST waits on all these little runs and does them all at once, then they can leverage the scale of the raw materials better... also it may be that there just aren't enough smaller companies making toys right now to be able to fill enough slots to make it worth the factories time!

In the end, I guess what I'm saying, is that, while yes cost of oil impacts the price in the short term for any product (via shipping), I don't agree that it impacts raw materials like plastic short term. Long term, absolutely! Also it's obvious that there are many more complex issues with regards to the over all costs... franchises fees, etc... and I'm sure I'm misdirected on some of these. Also it's hard to be able to really intelligently discuss something that we aren't privy to, i.e the actual terms of the contracts that DST gets from a typical factory.



#46 TheHSBR

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 08:31 AM

Heres my problem right now. A LOT of the product that DST has produced is no longer available at all! I know its been years but you just cant find many of the figures/waves even on ebay for high prices. Im trying to rebuy for customizing projects and heres just a shortlist of what not available either at all or is nowhere around the reatil price (usually more than double) and this is just the stuff Ive come across there could be more:
Data/Geordi wave
TWOK McCoy
Nemesis Data/Geordi (the two 1701 issues if you recall)
Riker/Worf wave (to some extent)

I was just looking for the initial release and not even the waves exclusives/variants.

Im just looking at how many people are signing up to just this board alone and are now in the market for this stuff. Basically unless they pay top dollar they wont be able to get a lot. So where Im trying to go with all this is THESE THINGS ARE SELLING. It may take a while and some clearance sales but people want them and new people are keeping them in demand. Go find a cheap Barclay, Ezri, or even Ogawa at this point. If you do you'll be pretty lucky. Im hoping the economy shapes up so DST can get back to the business of producing these toys because the fanbase is growing at this point and I think the ENT-D is going to bring more people into the fold.



#47 Gothneo

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE (TheHSBR @ Jun 14 2009, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It may take a while and some clearance sales but people want them and new people are keeping them in demand.


Isn't that a problem though? if you have to clearance the item it means your no longer making the profit you wanted... e.g. they were over produced.

I picked up a bunch of DS9 Siskos on clearance, but I've noticed that the Worf/Riker TNG wave can be found for $40 for a case on the web. Thats $5 for ea figure!

Up until a month ago it was the same for the Picard/Troi wave.

Those waves came out more than 5 years ago... and they aren't generating any new cash for DST at this point because they sold all the stock the have and retailers are still sitting on them and don't want more.


#48 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Jun 14 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those waves came out more than 5 years ago... and they aren't generating any new cash for DST at this point because they sold all the stock the have and retailers are still sitting on them and don't want more.

I am pretty sure the Worf,Riker wave came out in early '06, only three years ago. Picard/Troi came out later that year.

#49 Gothneo

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:00 PM

Your most likely correct. my calculations seem to be a bit off... I found this press release...
QUOTE
...Look for these figures and the core assortment of Season 7 Picard, Season 7 Troi and Captain's Jacket Picard in Spring 2006.


So the Troi/Riker pack did arrive in '06, I was sure Riker Worf came around the end of '05, but even then I'm off base...

Still my point is these have been warming shelves for years now.



#50 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Jun 14 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your most likely correct. my calculations seem to be a bit off... I found this press release...


So the Troi/Riker pack did arrive in '06, I was sure Riker Worf came around the end of '05, but even then I'm off base...

Still my point is these have been warming shelves for years now.

Yes, the Riker/Worf figures were supposed to be available around fall of '05, but didnt show up until around February of '06, which pushed the Picard/Troi wave back to july or august of that year i think.I think the quantities of the first couple of waves were larger than wave 3 or 4 was, so more peg warmers out there.

#51 Sybeck1

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 09:05 PM

Well I just preordered my first item from TRU, a Kang and guess what ? They charged my account already!! At least Rick doesn't do that! If it cancels hopefully I will get my money back!!

#52 Gothneo

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 03:31 AM

That seems odd... I'm pretty sure they didn't actually charge me until they shipped. Did you pay with a credit card?

#53 knightone

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 04:12 AM

TRU has never charged me before anything shipped either.

#54 Sybeck1

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Jun 15 2009, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That seems odd... I'm pretty sure they didn't actually charge me until they shipped. Did you pay with a credit card?




My bank debit card

#55 Gothneo

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:30 AM

Hmmm... maybe that's why... still seems odd though.

I wouldn't know. I don't put my bank card on the net for anything! I have a credit card specifically for net purchases. Can't tell you how many times that saves me from fraud.

The credit card company will fight for their money... the bank won't necessarily fight for yours

#56 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 12:32 PM

QUOTE (VulcanFanatic @ Jun 14 2009, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, the Riker/Worf figures were supposed to be available around fall of '05, but didnt show up until around February of '06, which pushed the Picard/Troi wave back to july or august of that year i think.I think the quantities of the first couple of waves were larger than wave 3 or 4 was, so more peg warmers out there.


I got the release dates of each of the waves of TNG figures straight from Chris at DST, so what you see on the Ref site was the date they were released.




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