55 replies to this topic

[TheHSBR]

I also think that if DST were to do a subscription service, it would still be a no go. I can tie up $120 dollars right now because I have a stable job. How many other people can do that without worry. Its unrealistic in this economy to think people will just up and sign up. A side note the MOTU secondary market is currently crashing with people speculating way too much. Ebay profits are way down from previous releases and it will be interesting to see what happens once the scalpers jump off the line.

[Quadrotritacale]

I just don't want to go to the trouble of having to order something online (filling out the forms, charging my credit card, etc.) then having to wait who knows how long for it to arrive if there's a possibility it will be sold at my local comic book shop. It would be so much easier and immediately satisfying just to go down there, grab one, and pay for it in person. Only after I've checked the shop and confirmed that not only do they not have it, but they also won't have it at all (or for as long as it would take to get the same item or items from an online source) would I order online. I bet I'm not the only one who feels this way, and it should be a perfectly logical explanation for DST about why they don't get pre-orders only.

[JonWes]

I also think that if DST were to do a subscription service, it would still be a no go. I can tie up $120 dollars right now because I have a stable job. How many other people can do that without worry. Its unrealistic in this economy to think people will just up and sign up. A side note the MOTU secondary market is currently crashing with people speculating way too much. Ebay profits are way down from previous releases and it will be interesting to see what happens once the scalpers jump off the line.

When the scalpers jump ship it won't matter. Beast Man and He-man took a good while to sell out - about as long as Mattel was thinking ALL the figures would sell out. So even if it dwindled back down to the hard core fans who bought those first two releases (and I doubt it will) Mattel would still be making the money they expected. Mattel has said numerous times that the majority of people ordering are only buying 1 or 2 figures. It seems like the speculators are a very small part of the market. Even with 100 or so Zodacs on Ebay, that's a small fraction of the thousands they've sold.

I think the important thing to remember about a subscription is that it wouldn't be a lump sum... at least not in my head. I couldn't pay for all that in one go. But getting it debited automatically each month seems okay.

[TheHSBR]

Well the MOTU service is either lump sum and shipped all at once or pay as you go but pay $9 for shipping on each figure. Both are undesirable in my mind but I utimately went with the lump sum.

[VulcanFanatic]

I have rarely preordered anything for some of the reasons mentioned already. The main reason that i would preorder is if the item was going to be very limited and its the only way i think i will have a shot at getting it at a decent price. I preordered the Sideshow Spock figure from newforce because they had the best price and i didnt think i would get one from Rick if i didnt preorder because he only got a few of them because they were so expensive. I also dont like to tie up money for months and months ahead of time and have the charge go through at an unexpected time. I like the freedom to purchase from whoever gets in the figures first, have the best price and all. For DST to base its production onthe number of preorders is shortsighted IMO, because they didnt factor in all of the people who wait to see the final product, availability date, price and also the casual buyers who walk through a store and just happen to see them and decide to buy it.

[Artistix]

theres no real solution. With capitalism a business MUST take risk to make profit.

I gather they considered the last few years worth of TNG & DS9 as their risk period, & they have no interest anymore.

[weyoun_9]

I thought it best to reply, as requested, to some of Rick's comments here...check the Sisko w/Chair thread if you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Rick w/NFC: "now, that said, as someone else mentioned, if you are not 100% committed to buying it, don't pre-order, really as simple as that... it might affect the product getting produced, but then no one loses if one changes their mind, or their economic situation changes, etc..."

Of course no one is "in business to lose money" as we all know...I hope Rick can acknowledge that we could be 100% committed to a product but a six to eighteen month delay can present changes that no one can predict for customer and retailer.

I stopped pre-ordering the minute I figured out my financial situation would only allow for immediate purchases. Since then, all the figures I'm actually interested in having have been canceled...and I suspect more cancellations are on the way.

Aside from repeated apologies, does AA/DST have a response to this? Are they aware that these delays correlate directly to their pre-order numbers? If so, what is keeping them from addressing this? If not, what more can we do to make them aware? The impression I have now is that they feel burdened with this license and are hoping that their behavior will lead to the eventual cancellation of the line. I would love to know if this is true or not.

They have said that they don't want to lay blame and that is why they don't share details. I know when I'm in a restaurant and my food is delayed, I very much appreciate being told that there was a mistake with my order or the lunch rush is slowing down the kitchen...it puts me at ease as a consumer and when I was a waiter I know it helped my tip and my relationship to my guest telling them the truth and the status of things. I think that if AA/DST is serious about maintaining this line then they should be upfront with us about the status of the license, including the delays. At least we would understand better what is happening.

Another problem with pre-orders in these economic times, which is something I offer to Rick but I imagine it is the size of his operation that restricts this, is that I may not be able to afford the entire wave, but do want specific figures. For example, I don't need any more Kirks. Period. I already have bought more than I wanted to try and support the line. I do want Rand and Chapel, so even though the cost may be more, I will try to find a retailer I can purchase these figures from individually. The same may go for the Borg line, assuming its not canceled. I want the 7 of 9s and the Borg Queen but don't need any more drones. I'm saving for characters that matter to me.

Rick...do you have any suggestions for us or for AA/DST that might solve these problems?

[TheHSBR]

They have said that they don't want to lay blame and that is why they don't share details. I know when I'm in a restaurant and my food is delayed, I very much appreciate being told that there was a mistake with my order or the lunch rush is slowing down the kitchen...it puts me at ease as a consumer and when I was a waiter I know it helped my tip and my relationship to my guest telling them the truth and the status of things. I think that if AA/DST is serious about maintaining this line then they should be upfront with us about the status of the license, including the delays. At least we would understand better what is happening.

It is nice to know that your food is delayed, but if everytime you go to the same restaurant your food is delayed every time and on most times the waitor does address the issue but also comes back 3-4 times to tell you its still delayed. Really I could care less WHY it is delayed but the bottom line is that the constant delays affect customer buying habits. At some point saying the cook is too backed up or there was a factory issue isnt good enough. I just want the product released on time or adjust your projections for estimated release. Really did anyone actually believe the initial estimates of release for the ENT-D? Needless to say DST has some pretty good "food" and if it were any other restaurant I definately wouldnt be going back.

[NewForceComics]

I thought it best to reply, as requested, to some of Rick's comments here...check the Sisko w/Chair thread if you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Rick w/NFC: "now, that said, as someone else mentioned, if you are not 100% committed to buying it, don't pre-order, really as simple as that... it might affect the product getting produced, but then no one loses if one changes their mind, or their economic situation changes, etc..."

Of course no one is "in business to lose money" as we all know...I hope Rick can acknowledge that we could be 100% committed to a product but a six to eighteen month delay can present changes that no one can predict for customer and retailer.

I agree, and it is ashame that the current state of both the economy and the Star Trek action figure collecting community is in this position...

I stopped pre-ordering the minute I figured out my financial situation would only allow for immediate purchases. Since then, all the figures I'm actually interested in having have been canceled...and I suspect more cancellations are on the way.

preorders are the "new" barometer....without them, folks are not willing to take as much risk, when the reward seems to no longer be there

Aside from repeated apologies, does AA/DST have a response to this? Are they aware that these delays correlate directly to their pre-order numbers? If so, what is keeping them from addressing this? If not, what more can we do to make them aware? The impression I have now is that they feel burdened with this license and are hoping that their behavior will lead to the eventual cancellation of the line. I would love to know if this is true or not.

there are a myriad of reasons for the delays and cancelations, and I don't think they will drastically change anytime soon, though I hope they do...

They have said that they don't want to lay blame and that is why they don't share details. I know when I'm in a restaurant and my food is delayed, I very much appreciate being told that there was a mistake with my order or the lunch rush is slowing down the kitchen...it puts me at ease as a consumer and when I was a waiter I know it helped my tip and my relationship to my guest telling them the truth and the status of things. I think that if AA/DST is serious about maintaining this line then they should be upfront with us about the status of the license, including the delays. At least we would understand better what is happening.

they are upfront, but remember, the end consumer is not really DST's customer...we, the retailer are...sometimes, reasons like oil prices, or factory issues, or approval issues, etc are disclosed to us...other times, there really is no reason given (though, some suspect it is financially motivated)...

Another problem with pre-orders in these economic times, which is something I offer to Rick but I imagine it is the size of his operation that restricts this, is that I may not be able to afford the entire wave, but do want specific figures. For example, I don't need any more Kirks. Period. I already have bought more than I wanted to try and support the line. I do want Rand and Chapel, so even though the cost may be more, I will try to find a retailer I can purchase these figures from individually. The same may go for the Borg line, assuming its not canceled. I want the 7 of 9s and the Borg Queen but don't need any more drones. I'm saving for characters that matter to me.

Rick...do you have any suggestions for us or for AA/DST that might solve these problems?

we used to offer singles...the problem today is that singles are cost prohibitive when you add in shipping and processing costs...
we can ship 4-5 figures now for $8.95 (used to be $5)... it litterally can cost $8.30 to ship 1 figure to CAL from FL....so, folks are generally ok with adding $8.95 onto a 4-5 figure purchase ($2 or so per fig) but most are NOT ok adding $8 to the figure price, in the form of shipping costs...

rick

[weyoun_9]

Rick - thank you for being so thorough and frank with us regarding these issues. Though somewhat disheartening for the future of this line, I appreciate your response.

I was reviewing your "History" site with the photos of the various lines and you listed the TOS Wave 5 as AA/DST's "Thank You to the Fans." Is this the writing on the wall as far as this line goes? I'd hate to think so, but I'm preparing myself for that. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Again...thanks for your input and communication with us.

[pawpal]

You sell preorders and are trying to get x y and z made. While you're working on them, the price of oil shoots up. Yes plastic is made from oil and so oil goes way up, plastic goes way up. If you make the product that you presold while oil was cheaper, while it is higher, then you would lose a ton and the more you sell of them the more you lose. So, while you're waiting, oil prices drop again, you hammer them out as fast as you can.

But materials are sourced and costs locked many months prior to product production. That's what the big manufacturers do anyway. They have long term contracts with their material suppliers so that while there might be an increase in price, it is gradual and does not spike suddenly. I guess DST's product runs are so small that they don't have long term contracts with any one factory or supplier, and have little say in how and when their products are manufactured.

[Hirogen]

Rick, what is your opinion on DST offering a Trek figure of the Month type subscription? This has been discussed by us here as a viable option to getting out characters like Quark and Dukat. Here is what we came up and submitted to the DST Q&A,

...has DST considered doing exclusive figures and offering them on their website, similar to what Mattel is doing with the Masters of the Universe and DC Universe lines? Perhaps even having a lower production number and offering them at $25 plus shipping to collectors? You can keep the numbers at between 1000 to 2000, and go into production in a different way. Maybe produce 12 figures in one production run to keep the MOQ, but only release one figure at a time, through your website, one each month. This way, you could guarantee complete crews, say like all the Voyager crew or all the DS9 crew, because everything will already be made. A lot of people might be more inclined to buy into a series if they know they will definitely be able to get a complete set. Plus you can get these out on a regular basis, on time, all year long. Big sellers like TOS, captain

[pawpal]

I know I would. I was so eager for the Playmates HK. Then it came out and it totally sucked. DST could have done a far better job.

Yeah, waited since 1991 for a toy HK and it turned out to be junk!

[pawpal]

Rick, what is your opinion on DST offering a Trek figure of the Month type subscription? This has been discussed by us here as a viable option to getting out characters like Quark and Dukat. Here is what we came up and submitted to the DST Q&A,

A monthly figure will only work if there are no production issues or delays. DST will have many many hurdles to overcome for such a plan to be successful.

[pawpal]

I am wondering if DST ever adequately offered their Trek products to retailers internationally? The toy stores here, it's not that they don't want to order Trek or other DST products, but that said products are tied to a Previews account of which there is a monthly minimum order requirement. With the constant delays what results is they would be forced to order other types of products they don't need (comics, T-shirts, etc) or want just to keep their Previews accounts active. Nobody wants to do that, especially in a weak economy.

[NewForceComics]

Rick, what is your opinion on DST offering a Trek figure of the Month type subscription? This has been discussed by us here as a viable option to getting out characters like Quark and Dukat. Here is what we came up and submitted to the DST Q&A,

...has DST considered doing exclusive figures and offering them on their website, similar to what Mattel is doing with the Masters of the Universe and DC Universe lines? Perhaps even having a lower production number and offering them at $25 plus shipping to collectors? You can keep the numbers at between 1000 to 2000, and go into production in a different way. Maybe produce 12 figures in one production run to keep the MOQ, but only release one figure at a time, through your website, one each month. This way, you could guarantee complete crews, say like all the Voyager crew or all the DS9 crew, because everything will already be made. A lot of people might be more inclined to buy into a series if they know they will definitely be able to get a complete set. Plus you can get these out on a regular basis, on time, all year long. Big sellers like TOS, captain

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[NewForceComics]

I am wondering if DST ever adequately offered their Trek products to retailers internationally? The toy stores here, it's not that they don't want to order Trek or other DST products, but that said products are tied to a Previews account of which there is a monthly minimum order requirement. With the constant delays what results is they would be forced to order other types of products they don't need (comics, T-shirts, etc) or want just to keep their Previews accounts active. Nobody wants to do that, especially in a weak economy.

hello all...
You would actually be suprised just how much product is produced and sold to their international customers...it is sometimes a substantial quantity of any given production run
rick

[Mason]

I don't think there is much more I can say that hasn't already been said. I too have stopped committing to pre-orders. Being in Australia, it's very expensive to get stuff sent from overseas (sometimes 3 or 4 times the cost of the actual figure) so I rely on several local online retailers to get my stuff. But we are very behind in what we get (we only just got TNG Series 5 and DS9 Series 2) and there's no guarentees that they'll actually get what's up for preorder.

I think the writing is definitely on the wall for DST's Trek license. They got quite the paradoz happening with the whole preorder/barometer thing they've got going on. I understand why they do it but I just don't think it's a very good measure of what the market is like if the toys aren't being shopped to major retailers. Let's be honest (and I'm not the first person to say this) but DST has known for a long time that the new Trek movie has been coming out and they should've had their products out in the market to take full advantage of that. A lot of the retailers around where I live have carried, and sold out of, the new PM Trek stuff. If DST had got their stuff out there, I'm positive they would've caught a lot of the action. Their Trek items are a lot more appealing than the PM ones but you just don't see them anywhere.

I'm very disappointed that we have incomplete lines. And it really seems to be just a few here and there (forgetting baddies like Dukat, etc). We finished TOS, TNG (the core 7 crew) and the TWOK lines. We missed out on Hoshi and Phlox from ENT (yeah, I know that was AA but still...), we are missing Quark and Bajoran Kira (and some would argue Jake) from DS9 and it seems very unlikely that we will get any VOY crew (and I was looking forward to them the most). Even if another company was to start over and make new figures, I'd be very wary about buying them because I wonder whether we'd come across the same problems. I think the same thing happened to PM when they originally when they held the license. We got all these different characters from TNG spread out across all these waves and they weren't all core crew in their TV uniforms. But as they started to reach the end of the license, PM released a full DS9 and VOY crew in one wave!! How good was that!? We got our core crew and everything else was an added bonus.

This is what DST needs to do. I have bought so many figures that I didn't want/need to support this line in the hope that more characters I actually wanted would get made and they are all being cancelled. I don't want any other TOS figures but if I don't buy them, I might not get my 7 of 9 or whoever else.

I was reviewing your "History" site with the photos of the various lines and you listed the TOS Wave 5 as AA/DST's "Thank You to the Fans." Is this the writing on the wall as far as this line goes? I'd hate to think so, but I'm preparing myself for that. I'd love to be proven wrong.

I hope you're wrong too because if this is DST's "Trek swansong" I would like them to fill in the gaps they've missed as a thank you to the people that have supported them all the way and collected everything. Apart from a complete VOY crew (obviously) I'd like to see a wave with Quark, Bajoran Uniform Kira, Jake (maybe), Hoshi and Phlox so we can finish off our core crews and then leave it be. I'd happily pre-order those, regardless of how much it'd cost me in postage!!

[bgiles73]

I'm starting to think, more and more that Star Trek will probably go more like Marvel Select Figures that DST offers and Playmates Toys will offer up a more retailer friendly line of figures for kids and the casual fan/collector. Now those Marvel Select figures are some pretty nice offerings. It would probably be a good thing for DST, in that they could take there time with this and not be pressured into making deadlines. Hopefully something like that could be done with a new sculpt for every figure and could include diorama pieces that an ordinary wave of figures could not.

[Jedigreedo]

The whole pre-order catch 22 is obviously just the tip of the iceberg with their problem, and it comes back down to advertising. Right now they should really be taking advantage of the fact that people are excited over the Enterprise-D and it's nearly out; in order to harness this excitement they need to send free samples to major website reviewers, as well as comic shops with the request that the sample be opened and displayed. Perhaps with pamphlets offered next to it to highlight other items that are being made - and items that are actually out.

As well, they should include advertisements regarding their Toys R Us waves. As I've read Trek threads on other message boards I've seen quite a few people confused when someone mentions finding DST Trek at TRU. If they got the word out about that more than more revenue could be coming from that, and TRU would want to buy more from DST.