130 replies to this topic

[Jay]

I have been collecting AA/DSTs line of action figures since 2005. I usually found all my figures at local comic book shops and some online resources. However, since 2009, I haven't been able to find ANY new product.

I even placed a pre-order on both the Kirk/Spock (Voyage Home) 2-Pack and the Sisco/Dukat 2-pack. However, both were cancelled. When I asked my local comic book shop about this, I was told the orders were cancelled per DST and all their pre-orders for the upcoming McCoy, Chapel, and Rand figures were cancelled as well. As far as I know, these have yet to be released.

Does anyone know the status of the Trek license with AA/DST? Have they given any offical statements?

[JMW326]

The Voyage home two pack was not cancelled. I have it sitting on my shelf right now. As for the license DST still has it. They have taken a break from the figures right now with the exception of a few TOS figures that are supposed to be coming out in the next couple of months. They are still doing ships and role play items as well as mego style trek figures.

[s8film40]

I don't understand what kind of arrangement they have that allows them to keep the license but pretty much not produce anything. I love my DST figures but if they're done with it it's time to let someone else take a shot with it. I would love to see Mattel get it. I've been very happy with their set up for selling Ghostbusters so far. It's slow but steady.

[Jay]

I don't understand what kind of arrangement they have that allows them to keep the license but pretty much not produce anything. I love my DST figures but if they're done with it it's time to let someone else take a shot with it. I would love to see Mattel get it. I've been very happy with their set up for selling Ghostbusters so far. It's slow but steady.

I tend to agree with your line of thiking as well. I might be mistaken, aside from the TOS re-issues of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy that were TRU exclusives in 2009, there hasn't really been any new Action Figure offerings since 2008...Is that about right?

I would think that per the agreement with Paramound, DTS would have to put out a minimum offering of product for each year they have the license (however, since DTS is still putting out the shipts and props, I suppose that would fulfill such a quoata).

Since the VOYAGE HOME 2-pack was released, how about the 7 of 9 & Borg line, or the McCoy, Rand, Chapel figures?

[Tiberius]

Since the VOYAGE HOME 2-pack was released, how about the 7 of 9 & Borg line, or the McCoy, Rand, Chapel figures?

I think the Voyage home WAS the last round that we received. The 7 and the figures in the banner above (Rand Chapel and McCoy) are probably not coming out.
If you are lucky enough to get it at this stage, the next wave will be the TRU cancelled figures, a re-release of Scotty, a Romulan Commander, and Kirk in a dress Green Wraparound. These were completely committed to by DST, and they allowed TRU to cancel the order. The best option was to make their minimal allotment to make enough money to break even.
Either because the following are head swaps, they are also being released, and of course they are "Kirk and Spock". WNMHGB (pilot episode) Kirk and Spock, and "Facinating" Spock with Romulan attire Kirk. Now that I think of it, the uniforms shown for Pilot K/S do not have the delta insignia moulded on, so they might be new shirts...
This has been discussed in the Wave 5 thread

[TheHSBR]

Many companies hold the rights to certain stuff and never do anything with it. Usually they paid for that right for a given number of years and its completely up to the company to decide how they want to make money off of it.

[TheHSBR]

we all are assuming that DST has a short term license, do we know that for sure? If they signed something for 10 years we could only be about halfway through.

[TheHSBR]

Well heres what we do know as of SDCC:
1. From what I can tell, all action figures that we know about are scheduled to be released by the end of 2010 including the retro cloth figures. It appears that the last scheduled is the Pike/Salt Vampire that is supposed to be released Dec 2010.
2. The Klingon BoP says that it is scheduled for winter 2011.

So we might be dealing with two separate licenses with action figures coming to a **possible** close in 2010 with the tech/ships continuing on OR if its all one license they will continue to hold it until at the very least the end of 2011.

[Alex]

I have been collecting AA/DSTs line of action figures since 2005. I usually found all my figures at local comic book shops and some online resources. However, since 2009, I haven't been able to find ANY new product.

Jay, that's because DST canceled most of their planned 2009 figure line. According to DST, pre-order numbers didn't justify the production of most of their planned figures; they also cited the overall economic climate as playing a significant factor in the number of canceled items. Likewise, DST did not have any figures planned for 2010, but stated that they would revisit the action figure line in 2011 if the economy turned around. (I'm referring to the standard 7" line of Trek figures here mind you.) DST also canceled figures from several other lines, including BSG as a result of the recession.

Simply put, 2009 was a really, really bad year for action figures and toys as a whole. For example, from 1993-2008, the "Power Rangers" toy line was either the #1 or #2 toy line among boys ages 7-11 in the US in terms of profit, and it only dipped to that #2 spot in the years when a new "Star Wars" film was being released, which should tell you something. In 2009 though, "Power Rangers" toy sales were actually considered "poor" for the first time ever. Granted, part of that is the result of Disney driving the franchise into a ditch and exiling the show to their ABC Kids block where half of America couldn't see it, but the recession was the other part of the equation. BanDai's 2010 figures were in the 3.75" line (a first for "Power Rangers") like Star Wars and retro Trek, and they and the other toys around them have really been warming shelves, not because their bad toys, but because people aren't purchasing luxury items in the frequency that they used too. Collector's lines like Trek, sold in comic shops and online took an even harder hit; many local shops went under and online retailers had to be careful about what they ordered.

[color="#000080"][font="Tahoma"]Does anyone know the status of the Trek license with AA/DST? Have they given any offical statements?

At last check, and I reserve the right to be wrong about this, the DST Trek license is in good standing. In 2009, Rick from Newforce confirmed that sales of Trek toys weren't what they used to be, and that as a result, retailers were ordering fewer of them, DSTChuck made similar statements in AskDST. Chuck did say that DST was reassessing its entire action figure line (not just Trek from what I understand, but everything,) and that the Trek figures were "on hold" for 2010. Chuck then went on to note that DST would continue to release new ships and "Trek Tek" while they tried to make the action figure line profitable again. So far, DST has kept their word; Chuck noted that the retro line was selling rather well, and that's still being produced, we've seen some new Phasers and Tricorders, but it takes longer to produce one of them than to produce an action figure, and new ships have been announced and are in the works. I think that given the economy that they're dealing with, and the lack of a new Trek TV series, DST is doing a pretty good job with the license.

It could be that DST are holding onto the line and keeping it quiet until next year and 2012 - if we see nothing substantial come out of next year's Toy Fair I think it's safe to say that CBS will be mixing it up a little bit and giving the license to someone else in time for 2012.

CBS won't yank the license, and I don't think DST will drop it unless they believe that it'll never be popular again. Back in the '90s when Playmates lost the license, it wasn't because Paramount wanted to pull it, but because Playmates screwed up the line so badly that they didn't want to pay for the license anymore. You couldn't give the Trek license away after Playmates lost it either; nobody wanted to touch it, Palisades had it and dropped it, and then Play Along's Art Asylum picked it up. Play Along's Art Asylum had high hopes for the Trek license and the new series "Enterprise," which Paramount ordered them to produce toys for--which they initially did with pleasure. However, as Enterprise tanked, it took Play Along with it; Paramount demanded toys but they simply wouldn't sell; "big box" retailers like Wal-Mart were reluctant to touch Trek, Toys "R" Us and K.B. toys reluctantly agreed to carry the lines, and they ultimately warmed shelves and played a major part in the bankruptcy of Play Along; DST bought out Art Asylum and effectively saved the Trek toy line from going back into the ether. Also, DST's current license is a renegotiated version of the license that Paramount and Play Along initially had--I believe it was also extended when DST picked it up. I do know that the license that's in effect now was created before the CBS/Paramount restructuring, and that the removal of Trek movies after Nemesis from DST's license was a retroactive thing as a result of the aforementioned restructuring. DST will likely negotiate with CBS for a revised license when it comes time to renew it, but I believe that was done recently.

My gut feeling though makes me think that this could be the last year for DST and Star Trek. DST are on borrowed time and have been for some time. I just think that they seem to be winding down rather than preparing for a massive license revival. This is the last year they could have impressed Star Trek fans and CBS, instead they've really done nothing to make anyone feel that DST are the right company to make something of their Star Trek line. Its just too little too late. With there being only two toy fair's to go and one SDCC to go before the release of the next Star Trek movie, DST have one last chance to prove themselves that they are dedicated to producing not just Star Trek for the sake of producing Star Trek but Star Trek toys that are revived and refreshed, 100% new, no reused parts for the most part, something more than just Kirk and Spock - if they can't do that then what have they got to offer but a ship every 1 or 2 years...

DST is not on "borrowed time;" they have big plans for Trek, but retailers won't get behind them. DST put a good deal of their toys on hold this year in fear of a double-dip recession; that's not going to cost them the license, if anything, CBS Consumer Products will see that as their licensee being economically intelligent, and will consider it a positive rather than a negative. No offense is meant by this 1701, but you need to get some of your facts correct. First, DST does not have the license to the new movies. Paramount controls the rights to the Trek movies created after Nemesis, while CBS controls the rights to all of the Trek TV shows and the first ten films, as well as any new TV series that may be produced. This is a direct result of Viacom restructuring CBS and Paramount; CBS does not have the right to license anything from the Trek films created after Nemesis, and Paramount does not have the right to license anything but the films created after Nemesis. DST is doing all that they can without a new TV show and retail support.

But... I wouldn't be surprised to see CBS give ONE license to ONE company to produce toys from TOS to the new movies - who that might be I'm not sure but it would make a lot of sense to go with someone like Hasbro.

I'm going to get back to what I mentioned above, but I wanted to quote this portion of your post here to point out a few relevant inaccuracies. As noted above CBS cannot "give" one license to anyone; Paramount has control over part of Trek and CBS has control over another; the license has been "King Solomonized" so to speak, as have the license holders; unless Viacom restructures again, we're always going to have two licenses, even if they're held by the same company.

Also, if you think the license will do any better under Hasbro, you're dead wrong. Retailers (as opposed to comic shops) don't want to touch Trek, and Hasbro deals with retailers. Wal-Mart, Target, Toys "R" Us, K-Mart/Sears, etc. don't want anything to do with Trek. Playmates, not DST, created the line from the Trek XI film, and it sold terribly, much like the line from Enterprise. Both had to be marked down with the "red tag of infamy" just to move the product at clearance levels. Not even the popular 2009 movie could sell Trek at retail. Switching licensees won't change the position of the retailers. Most retailers look at Trek and say something like this: "I invested in toys from Enterprise, it was a losing investment, and I invested in toys from the 2009 movie, and that was a losing investment, so why should I invest in another Trek line?" DST wants to sell to "big box" retailers, but they don't want to buy Trek. Let me put it another way: A good friend of mine works at Wal-Mart; he'd love to have DST's Trek toys in his store, but his manager doesn't even want to consider the idea because of how poorly the Playmates line from the most recent film sold. This same friend purchased the Playmates 1701 from Trek XI for $5.00 on clearance because his store was selling the figures for $1.00 and the ships and playsets for $5-10 dollars. Trek fans like us might not like this, but the Playmates line didn't sell. One could argue that Playmates simply produced an inferior line to what DST produces, but that's irrelevant, what's relevant is that the poor sales of the Playmates line from the 2009 film directly affect how a retailer views Trek no matter who it's coming from, be it Playmates, DST, Hasbro, or even Bandai.

Also, Hasbro has stated that the only reason they're doing "collectible-quality Star Wars stuff is because their main toy line, aimed at children (emphasis added) is selling remarkably well; they've noted that if they had to cut something, the collector's stuff would be the first to go. They would treat Trek the same way, just as Playmates tried to treat it as a "kid's line," and we all saw how that worked out.

To DST's credit, they did manage to get Toys "R" Us to pick Trek up again after Enterprise killed the retail presence entirely, but the recession affected their agreement with TRU. It's not like DST isn't trying or is handling Trek incompetently, in fact quite the opposite--they're doing remarkably well for an underdog with a license that nobody can seem to sell. The WORST thing that could happen to the Trek toyline would be a change in licensees; the new licensee will start from scratch with more Kirks and Spocks. I'm frustrated with the cancellations too, but it's not something DST can fix. The Maltz/Kruge 2-pack, which I really wanted was canned, and apparently CBS told DST that it likely wouldn't sell, so that should tell you that DST may be taking more risks than CBS would even encourage. DST has made some mistakes, such as the release date for the Enterprise-D, but they've more than made up for those mistakes: the Enterprise-D itself is the best ship I've seen from DST to date, and the new Enterprise-E looks amazing and I can't wait to have it in my hands. I'd like to see DST keep the license, but I'd also like to see CBS promote the DST toys to a larger audience. DST is catering to a niche audience, and as such, they have to choose their releases carefully, any similar company would be in the same situation, and a larger toy company like Hasbro would just cancel the toy line if it sold poorly, which is what Playmates did to the second wave of toys from the new movie.

Several things are possible:

1) Diamond Select don't release much in 2010 whilst they work hard on new lines of Star Trek action figures for the latter half of 2011. I would imagine these would be in a new 3 3/4 inch scale which could work out really well if they don't get stuck just producing characters from TOS and they kept to the level of detail found on their 7 inch line - which could work better at a smaller scale anyway.

This seems to be the plan. DST is reassessing the action figure line and working on ships which take some time to tool. They're saving their money in 2010 and they'll spend in 2011 to push the Trek line again, at least that's the plan. CBS knows that it's hard to sell Trek toys, and I have to admit that I wonder if Playmates will drop the movie license if the next film's toy sales are as bad as the last ones. If they do, DST should pick them up.

[Sybeck1]

Simply put I guess, Supply equals Demand.

[knightone]

I don't think Paramount cares that much about the old Star Trek toy license. They haven't made that much money off of it since the mid-1990's. I think their focus is, currently, on the Abrams Treks and that license is not under DST's banner. I would also assume that license is done on a per movie basis, so the license for the second movie is probably up for grabs.

[bgiles73]

I think the new license is on a movie by movie basis. The interesting thing though, is Playmates picked up a license to produce TOS with DST. Then that was put on hold as well as all of DST's figure line with the exception of Marvel Select and Retro Cloth. I think a scale change up to 3 3/4" is inevitable if Star Trek is to truly be profitable for DST. I'm holding out hope that the combined effort of Playmates and DST will make a 3 3/4" Star Trek Line successful, because while I absolutely love Hasbro, if Star Trek joins the ranks of Star Wars it will only be viewed as that "other" sci-fi space franchise that Hasbro is making toys for!

[bgiles73]

Now we are in this new age where JJ Abrams has just done what many thought was impossible - revived the dead cow and given it new relevance to a new audience, an audience of not just fans, but old fans who were turned off by Voyager, kids who've never heard of Captain Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway or Archer, oldies who remember watching Star Trek for the first time, newbies who've hated Star Trek up until now, Jedi's who've found a new Star they can follow and the casual movie goer who'd rather shoot some shots than buy some toys... a broader audience that wont know a DST from a NECA but might just wander into Toys R Us with their kid or a brother/sister, mate and think WOW look at that 2 foot Enterprise... or amazing that the Star Trek figures are completely compatible with my Star Wars figures and ships. There's still a huge way to go before Star Trek is once again as big as it was in the early 1990's - maybe it will never be that big again and if not I'm sure the licensing and merchandising will reflect it but at the moment? I think in the coming months and during 2011 we will see a radical shakeup of the Star Trek licenses and I just don't think DST or Playmates for that matter anymore, really fit into the plans CBS and Paramount have for the future of the Star Trek brand.

Certainly I don't blame CBS for being cautions in 2009 - it could have been a completely different story with Star Trek tanking at the box office - but it didn't and I think with the information they've gathered from the 2009 movie, all the facts, figures and stats they'll be wanting to really make the changes they want to make for the sequel and I just can't see DST being a part of those changes. I think they'll want to go with global well-known companies like Lego, Hasbro. One of the things that a lot of people identified with the first movie was it's world wide BO - which wasn't as good as it should have been - the answer to that problem was for many people to put an A-lister into the second movie to give it an international attraction - I believe the same to be with the toys - DST is an unknown company and Playmates are seen to be a dated company - Lego and Hasbro though are huge in almost every country around the world so i think CBSmarketing will want to focus on what will make Star Trek bigger overseas as a brand.

Certainly these are exciting times but I'm 100% sure they won't stick with DST and won't be asking Playmates back anytime soon. (btw Playmates don't have a Star Trek license anymore)

Or maybe, instead of going with Hasbro, CBS/Paramount will give a fresh new company a shot. Spin Master looks to be the company to keep an eye on. Their presentation for the Tron:Legacy line looks to be good.
http://i.toynewsi.co...b...2F&start=20

http://www.toyark.co...-con-2010-3065/

[Alex]

Hi Alex, you raise some very good points here and I will not attempt to dispute them however I do have my facts in order and a few things I'd like to pick up on if I may? First of all just to clear things up, CBS own the merchandising rights to the entire Star Trek franchise including the 2009 movie as well as the TV rights ad anything else that comes out in the future movie/TV or otherwise, under this set-up where as Paramount own the production rights to the make Star Trek movies. So the ultimate decision as to who gets what license rests with CBS regardless of what Star Trek it is being licensed. (if you have it, please feel free to check the box of your Playmates Enterprise from 2009 or any item/product you have from the 2009 movie and you will see the CBS logo somewhere).

1701, after reading your post I admittedly became curious about which one of us was correct regarding the licensing, and... it appears that we are both wrong. According to Viacom's corporate website, Paramount Merchandising handles the licensing for all products pertaining to Paramount Pictures properties, including "Star Trek." If Rick, BadBunnyMike, or someone else "in the know" could chime in and set the record straight though, that'd be great.

Unfortunately, I don't have the Enterprise from the most recent film; it's the only ship that I have ever willingly passed up, and I admittedly passed on it because I was waiting for several DST ships to arrive around the same time. (In hindsight I'm wishing I had bought the PM 1701; I'm a ship collector and it's the only ship that's missing from my collection now that I willingly skipped over.) What's sad is that even my hideously defective HD 1701 (DST replaced for free under warranty I might add,) was better than what Playmates churned out, and that's with a defective paint job and slightly wonky sound chip. Don't even get me started on Andy/TheHSBR's defective HD 1701, or my friend's that has a barely audible sound chip--I know one person who has a functioning PM 1701, and he paid $5.00 for it, so now I'm really kicking myself since I think that's a decent price for what Playmates put out. (I'd rather have a DST ship with no paint than what Playmates gave us.) I'm going to have to check my Burger King collector's glasses for the CBS logo now, but I'll have to dig them out first. I'd love a picture of the box from the PM 1701 though, not because I doubt you, but because I want to see where the CBS eye is on the box itself, so that should I ever get a hold of that ship, I'll know where to look for it.

I still think that we may both be partially correct about the license though after doing a bit of research on the subject, which is why I'm asking for someone like Rick or Chuck with direct access to this information to share what they're allowed to. Oh and 1701, if nothing else comes from this debate, you indirectly taught me that there's a "Paramount Merchandising" in Viacom's corporate portfolio, and I want to thank you for that. I mean that too; I like to learn.

You do make some good points about DST, but I will give them this: they stand by their product; if it's defective, they'll replace it for free and only ask for part of the defective item to be mailed to them as proof that it's defective. Granted, that's no substitute for better quality control, but DST has excellent sculpts and when their products aren't defective, they're great. DST's marketing, or lack thereof is indefensible, but I have to disagree with you when you say that they produce "bad" Star Trek toys. DST's ships and Tek lines are excellent; they just need to make their action figure selection more diverse. DST's least detailed ship was the original Enterprise-E, (not the one being discussed in the thread below this one) and as I mentioned, that was a "special" situation, and not indicative of their usual quality. However, even with limited detail, DST's ship ran circles around the two Enterprise-E's that Playmates produced, and the new ship that Playmates produced from the new movie. DST's Enterprise-D is quite possibly the best toy version of that ship I've ever seen, and that's with the "missing window" defect, which DST has apologized for and stated that they'll correct on future runs. Likewise, the Trek Tek line has been good enough to be used as filming props on TV shows, including "Enterprise" and "The Big Bang Theory."

Just thinking about it and as to why I feel DST might not be involved with Star Trek beyond 2010. DST approached CBS to produce the toys for the movie, CBS turned them down because they wanted a larger toy company to produce toys for the movie. Playmates were given it as a result of them having Star Trek in the past. Ultimately their toys also bombed so I doubt we'll be seeing Trek from them again. Which leads me onto why I feel it might just be curtains for DST. What you need to forget is the past, you need to forget the 90's Playmates toys and the early 00's Art Asylum toys made during a time when Star Trek was an obscure niche Trekker only franchise. Before the movie and now coming up to the sequel, Paramount are obviously looking to make Star Trek into a mainstream franchise that follows the likes of Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel and DC. CBS obviously are thinking the same and want Star Trek to rival the bigger licenses in the toy shops - Star Wars, Transformers, GI-Joe... They will only get that if a BIG toy company has the license, companies like HASBRO because of their recourses in marketing big global franchises.

DST did approach CBS/Paramount, but the decision to award the license to another company was unanimous. CBS/Paramount wanted gimmicky toys that would appeal to young children rather than to collectors, and DST didn't want to get burned if the new movie tanked. I believe Hasbro looked at the Trek license, but Playmates ultimately made Paramount a much better offer than Hasbro was even considering, which is why CBS/Paramount went with Playmates.

Furthermore, Playmates wanted to produce exactly what CBS/Paramount wanted them to produce: cheap gimmicky toys aimed at children and not at collectors. Paramount got exactly what they wanted, and exactly what they were asked to produce, and surprise--it didn't sell. I'd love to peg the failure of the Trek XI line solely on Playmates, but CBS/Paramount shares it equally for not only allowing, but encouraging the production of gimmicky Trek toys aimed at children.

You mention Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel, and DC comics; those are all lines aimed at children, and that exist for the sole purpose of selling toys, much like the "Power Rangers" line that I mentioned. Star Wars has always been aimed at children; it just did very well with adults as well. Hasbro realized that there was money in a collector's line and created one, but the main Star Wars toyline is a gimmicky childrens line, much like Playmates' Trek XI line. Transformers (as well as Marvel and DC,) has always been aimed at children as well. The adult collectors who collect Transformers toys--myself included, expect them to be toys that are aimed at children.

Trek is different though, unlike Power Rangers, Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel, or DC, Trek wasn't created to sell toys. Trek differs from the above lines because it's survived as a series of moral plays cleverly disguised as a Sci-Fi series. Even at it's peak in the '90s, plot was more important for Trek than its toy sales ever were. Unlike the above lines, Trek is not aimed at children, it's aimed at adults, and some children who are relatively more intelligent than most latch onto it. (I was admittedly one of those children.) In effect it's the exact opposite of Power Rangers, Star Wars, Transformers, Marvel and DC--those are aimed at children and have a secondary adult fanbase; Trek is aimed at adults and has a secondary youth fanbase. What's more, that youth fanbase, much like adult collectors, expects Trek toys to be more accurate than gimmicky.

Right now, I still think that DST is the best choice for Trek's master toy licensee, or whatever term CBS/Paramount uses in place of "master toy licensee." (There was an article in "Communicator" when Art Asylum got the rights to Trek where they noted that Paramount stopped using that term in the early '90s because of just how complicated the Trek license is. What Play Along and subsequently DST acquired though is, for all intense and purpose a master toy license; I just thought you might find this fact interesting.) However, I think that was DST needs is a distributor which is where you might be onto something with Hasbro. The best thing for the Trek license would be if AA/DST kept it, but distributed their high quality Trek toys through a company like Hasbro that has retailer connections. DST would be in charge of the sculpts and designing the toys, and Hasbro could handle quality control and distributing them to retailers.

DST seemed willing to try something like this with Playmates. Playmates approached DST and asked them to sculpt TOS figures in the 3.75" scale to go with the new movie figures. DST was willing to sub-license or cross-license TOS in the 3.75" scale because they had no interest in it outside of their retro figures, and Playmates wanted high quality sculpts because they were getting hammered with their poor Trek XI line. DST agreed to sculpt the figures, which Playmates would then sell at retail. When Playmates realized that their Trek toys weren't selling, they canceled all of their planned releases including the 3.75" line sculpted by DST. What Playmates did was akin to "sticking DST with the bill," so to speak: DST paid for sculpting and tooling for figures that may never see the light of day. (If Playmates had the rights to distribution and lost them, those rights don't automatically revert to DST.) Although I can't say for sure, I do believe that this may also have played a role in why we have no new Trek figures from DST this year. Think about it, if DST's bottom line was severely affected by these figures being canceled, it could have directly affected other Trek figures that they had planned. The reason Kirk and Spock keep getting reissued is that retailers keep requesting them and are able to sell them without a problem. If retailers were requesting Archer and T'Pol instead of Kirk and Spock, we'd see Archer and T'Pol reissues out the wazoo rather than Kirk and Spock reissues.

Many companies hold the rights to certain stuff and never do anything with it. Usually they paid for that right for a given number of years and its completely up to the company to decide how they want to make money off of it.

This is completely true Andy/TheHSBR. Some companies "sit" on licenses for years before they actually do anything with them. BanDai is known for snapping up the rights for various Anime films, TV shows, and direct-to-video releases and "sitting" on them for years at a time. A great example is the "Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: A New Translation Trilogy" license. BanDai grabbed that back in 2005 when it was new, and they only localized (translated) it and released it via their Bandai Entertainment label this past June.

It's also worth noting that some companies grab up licenses simply so that another licensee doesn't get the chance too. If it's more profitable to renew a license and do nothing with it than to allow a competitor to have it, most companies will do so. If I remember correctly Playmates stated that their Star Trek line was being "re-examined," and "put on indefinite hold," which is usually a fancy way of saying that they still have the rights to Trek XI, and maybe even Trek XII, but they're not going to release anything until a theatrical release date for Trek XII is announced.

In a way, I find it kind of ridiculous that people are wondering if DST still has the Trek license and/or if they're planning on doing anything with it. After all, a new Enterprise-E was just announced, (I'm assuming that was done at Comic Con,) the Excelsior and the Enterprise-B are both in the works, and Chuck is extremely optimistic about the Klingon BoP that they're working on. Also, isn't that TWOK Tricorder a new piece of Trek Tek? If so, that means that the only thing we haven't seen any announcements on are action figures, and I thought Chuck made the reasoning behind that clear. I really don't think DST is anymore pleased with the cancellations than any of us are; if we don't get figures, we don't get figures, but if DST doesn't sell figures, their employees don't get to eat, have a roof over their heads, or keep their jobs.

I'd be curious to know if any other Trek merchandise hit a snag the way the toys did once the movie left the theaters. Likewise, I'd be curious to know what happened to Mattel's Hot-Wheels Trek line. Did it sell poorly too and get canceled, or did they "cloak" it until the next film is announced? If it's the former, than maybe the problem isn't DST, or Playmates, or Mattel, but a general lack of consumer interest in Trek figures outside of collectors. Many of us forget that children would rather play games with electronic devices, such as the Nintendo Wii and the iPod Touch than purchase new action figures. I realize that this isn't true of all children, but it's true of most, and if forced to choose between a new game or a new action figure, most children choose new games.

we all are assuming that DST has a short term license, do we know that for sure? If they signed something for 10 years we could only be about halfway through.

That's a good point Andy; DST could've signed a much longer license than we believe that they did, or they could have extended their previous license with the option to extend it again and/or modify it at a later date. DST's license could be up for renewal next year or in 2012; if that's the case, they could be trying to release everything that they're working on in the months leading up to the end of the current license so that they can show CBS all the new stuff that they just created and have some leverage if they want to renegotiate the terms of the license, and/or acquire the rights to something like Trek XI. Another possibility is that the license was up for renewal this year and DST didn't want to create a bunch of products that would never be released if they couldn't reach a deal with CBS, so they purposely kept the line slim, renewed and/or renegotiated the license quietly, and will start releasing new product next year. We also don't know if CBS cares (no pun intended) about DST putting the figures on hiatus for a year, nor do we know CBS' position on the idea (they may approve of it after the mess Playmates made with Trek XI,) or if they may have even "suggested" it to DST. (CBS could have told DST to hold off on new Trek figures, and DST could've decided to hold off on everything else as well since lines like BSG were winding down anyway. Granted, this isn't one of the more plausible theories.) In the event that CBS approves of the hiatus, I don't see them pulling the license from DST; they didn't pull it from Playmates in the '90s--Playmates ran it into a ditch and then dropped it, and from what I understand, Playmates pulled the mess they made in 2009, not Paramount; they may even still have the rights to the 2009 movie, and quite possibly the next film and simply not be doing anything with them right now.

I don't think Paramount cares that much about the old Star Trek toy license. They haven't made that much money off of it since the mid-1990's. I think their focus is, currently, on the Abrams Treks and that license is not under DST's banner. I would also assume that license is done on a per movie basis, so the license for the second movie is probably up for grabs.

I believe you're partially right about the "old" Trek toy license, knightone. I don't think CBS is very interested in TNG-ENT right now, but if there were a new Trek TV series announced, that would likely change very quickly. I do believe that they are interested in TOS, as well as the first ten movies though. Look at what DST has been focusing on lately: A new Enterprise-E, the Excelsior, Enterprise-B, Klingon BoP, Kirk and Spock reissues, TMP and TWOK Trek Tek, and the "retro" 3.75" TOS line. Now what do all of these things have in common? All of the ships and Tek have been featured prominently in Trek films, and all of the figures are of characters that were either in TOS or TOS-era films. If you got into Trek with the 2009 film, you'd probably go back and watch the first ten films next, and then start renting seasons of TOS. My guess is that DST knows this and is focusing their efforts on these items because they're in some way relevant to the new movie. Likewise, in one of the non-canon novels that ties into the new movie, the Enterprise-E faces off with the Narada; I won't tell you how the battle ends, but I will tell you that there's a reason why Nero really doesn't like Klingons.

You also raise an interesting point on whether the license is done on a per-movie or per-multiple movie basis. If memory serves me correctly, the press release from Playmates Toys stated that they had secured the rights for the then-new feature film, as well as the next two feature films. Now keep in mind, this was before they produced "Star Trek Shelf-Warmers" that they passed off as toys, but assuming that they didn't drop the license, this could very well still be the case. Remember, Playmates was very care about how they worded what they were doing after the Trek toys didn't sell too--they weren't "losing" the Trek license, nor were they dropping it or "ending" it, they were "re-examining their license," and "putting Trek on indefinite hold." I read that as them still having the Trek license for the 2009 movie, as well as the next two movies, but simply not releasing any new products unless there's a new movie in theaters to go with them. Now if Playmates has indeed dropped or lost the rights to the next movie, then I'd hope that DST would pick it up. However, an AskDST from May makes it sound like Playmates still has the rights to the next two Trek movies (even if they're not using them,) as well as the one from 2009. Likewise, in the same AskDST, I believe Chuck said that he wasn't aware of any other companies that were interested in the Trek license, adding "but if they are, we're probably the last toy company that they'd want to tell," so make of that what you will.

Maybe instead of us all speculating on Trektoy though, one of us could, ya know, AskDST if they're able to tell us how long their current Trek license is good through, and if they plan to renew it as I personally hope that they do. I'd understand if there was certain information that they couldn't disclose, but it'd be nice if they could disclose the year it expires or how many years it's good for before it has to be renewed.

*Takes a deep breath* I realize this was another long one, but I had a lot to say.

[VulcanFanatic]

I know we have a couple of long winded members here, but do you think you can break down your responses to short posts rather than the kind you have to schedule an appointment to read? Your points may have been good, but i will never know because i dont read "Book" long posts.