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#41 Gothneo

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:49 AM

well... it's a good opportunity to put in a plea for getting something (anything it seems theses days!) made!

Plus sometimes they send you free stuff for sending in a question.

But I learned that direct questions weren't the way to go way back when we had the "ASK DST" Q&A here on trektoy. After that I just make an impassioned plea every now and then to get a Nurse Chapel!

And to that point...

QUOTE ("DSTChuck")
we

#42 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 10:40 AM

Honestly, the response about re-structuring the waves bothers me, and points out another glaring weakness with pre-orders. Let's say I pre-ordered wave 5, expecting to get the originally advertised figures. Would I still want the wave if two of the figures were replaced with others, or if one were dropped? In the latter case, would I get a price reduction on my pre-order? Would my pre-order be cancelled since technically what I ordered isn't coming out? It's hard enough to guage whether you're going to have the funds to pay for your pre-order MONTHS in advance, and now you add in additional uncertainty of what you're even going to get even if you do somehow know when?!?!

#43 stardust

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 10:48 AM

It certainly looks like the Star Trek line has ground to a halt. I guess the days of Trek toys is pretty much over. It certainly isn't what it was like in the 90s. That's fine by me though--my era of Trek is pretty much over with when the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT ended a few years back. I wasn't too crazy about Trek XI and with all the cancellations--the BOrg wave, the Sisko Defiant chair etc--I've pretty much lost interest in Trek collecting. In a way that is a good thing now since it frees up my money to spend on all the MOTUC and DCUC stuff from Mattel.

At least with those toylines I know the figures will be made, there are no delays in fact they are releasing them at a breakneck speed like a wave of 10 characters every month and there is a nice mix of character selection unlike DST with its sole focus on TOS.

#44 Sybeck1

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:08 PM

If I get wave 5, the 2 romulans, plus rommy Kirk, and the Salt Vampire, I'd be happy. then I will gladly part ways with DST. The love affair is over, I'm just looking for one last quickie.

#45 Prometheus

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE (Sybeck1 @ Nov 20 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I get wave 5, the 2 romulans, plus rommy Kirk, and the Salt Vampire, I'd be happy. then I will gladly part ways with DST. The love affair is over, I'm just looking for one last quickie.

I agree....Give me one last good fix ...LOL

#46 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:00 PM

Well atleast Chuck Confirmed in this one that they do have plans with Playmates to make the 3.75"

#47 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (stardust @ Nov 20 2009, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It certainly isn't what it was like in the 90s.


Back in the 90's it seemed like everytime i went to the store there was new figures out, it was hard to keep up with. Now its like 7 months since wave 1 came out with talk of 4 waves or so that would all be out by january or so, but its almost january and we have yet to see anything past wave 1. Yes, definitely not the 90's anymore.


#48 Gothneo

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:49 PM

QUOTE (stardust @ Nov 20 2009, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It certainly looks like the Star Trek line has ground to a halt. I guess the days of Trek toys is pretty much over. It certainly isn't what it was like in the 90s. That's fine by me though--my era of Trek is pretty much over with when the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT ended a few years back. I wasn't too crazy about Trek XI and with all the cancellations--the BOrg wave, the Sisko Defiant chair etc--I've pretty much lost interest in Trek collecting. In a way that is a good thing now since it frees up my money to spend on all the MOTUC and DCUC stuff from Mattel.

At least with those toylines I know the figures will be made, there are no delays in fact they are releasing them at a breakneck speed like a wave of 10 characters every month and there is a nice mix of character selection unlike DST with its sole focus on TOS.



Toy collecting in general isn't what it was just a few years ago... niche stuff like Star Trek has taken a bigger beating then most of the mass marketed stuff.

#49 New Frontier

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 12:06 PM

Trek needs figures that are appealing to both collector and kid and the time to establish itself alongside Star Wars - the film was a resounding success and has ignited within kids and nerds around the globe a passion for all things Star Trek, however if Paramount want kids to keep interested in Star Trek then i would expect that between now and the release of the sequel CBS and Paramount should begin and release an animated cartoon based within the new Trek universe that appeals to the younger audience.

Toys in general are not doing as well as they did back in the 90's - it's all video gaming now. Having said that Star Trek action figures and toys have the potential to work and now that DST are teaming up with Playmates perhaps in 2010 we'll see the first of an amazing lineup of 3 3/4 inch figures that are as good if not better than the Star Wars figures based on the new movie and the classic Star Trek series with the possibility of them releasing TNG, DS9 and VOY figures.

I think we will learn a great deal more about the future of Star Trek toys next February.

#50 Tiberius

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:09 PM

OK, I know I have said it before in the forum, and I will try not to say it again, but...

DST is having troubles finding buyers for the current offerings of Trek, they have lost faith in anything beyond TOS. The latest/last wave of figures is not hitting their targeted sales, they may have to give up on TOS. DST is unimpressed with TREK!
Playmates has sold a first wave of movie Trek figures in stores everywhere. They released three scales of them, one of which was of interest to many collectors, due to their compatibility in size with other companies figures, ie Star Wars. Playmates did not release the bridge sets with the non US offerings and were apparently going to make a booster pack for the next wave, to fix that error. Playmates offered a second wave of some interesting characters to be released in November. These figures appear to be cancelled. PM seems to feel that Trek does NOT sell.

Before the cancellation of the Movie Trek series 2, Playmates announces they are going to offer TOS figures in the smaller scale. It turns out that they might be pairing with DST to do these figures, everyone gets interested in the thought (me included). Well Playmates is not selling a second wave, due to poor sales and interest; DST is not selling the last hurrah wave, due to lack of interest. WHO is going to buy these figures now??
Everyone is complaining when there is a new variation of Kirk or Spock, as in Kirk in this or that uniform. Several people are not interested in Paramount's desire to release everything in new formats so, "I have to start all over with what I already have". It would appear that, due to the wide open number of characters that DST/AA have already released, they can woo us enough that new figures can be created. IS this going to happen?

I have not collected the PM figures so far, I did not want the 12" because they are too big, and I no longer display my current large figures. I did not collect the 6" figures, as they are not in any scale that I have (Trek always seems to have a unique scale, since the Mego years even). I did not collect the 3 3/4 figures, although I was thinking of it, because the headsculpts looked lame. When the figures went down in price, I was very close to getting them all, but stalled when realizing I would be missing Pike and later the uniformed McCoy, etc.
When I heard of the "merger" between PM and DST, I became interested again. I was going to buy up some figures to customize between the two, and also merging the TMP bridge figures too...
I would probably get these smaller figures, because lets face it they display better. I might even replace my display with everything Playmates, but what if they do not sell? Will I get my hopes up, only to get a repeat of an incomplete crew, AGAIN? Couldn't this basically be, Just Another Kirk and Spock??

I DO hope that this plan will help to "flesh out" the second wave of PM figures AND the latest/Last wave of TOS figures. But lets face it, if neither of these are getting "enough interest" now, how is the interest going to hold out for the "hybrid" Trek idea.

Are you still there, I am finished now. I will endevour to keep up a positive spin on the idea and buy them if I can. And I will stop being a naysayer for a great merging of these two concepts. AND if wave two becomes an (alternate?) reality", I will buy them up at full retail as well as every first wave I can find!
Done ranting now...

#51 Gothneo

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:36 PM

Tiberius...


Take a couple deep breaths and then...















GET OUT OF MY BRAIN! laugh.gif

I agree with everything you've said. I like my AA/DST collection and it will take something true spectacular and much improved to get me to abandon it for a completely new line.

I'd have to say the gateway to getting me into 3 3/4 line will be voyager. Since I have no VOY AA/DST figures, I'd collect a VOY line... Then if done spectacularly enough... they would probably get me hooked.

#52 Sybeck1

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 04:44 PM

You know the chance of Voyager figures is about the same chance of finding ice water in Hades IMO. But you know that. If there was demand for the smaller figures it seems wave 2 of Playmates (I've passed on it all) would be a no brainer. But they say there will be new classic Trek, which means probably a lot of Kirks and Spocks we have been offered will be made, with less detail of course. And can you imagine the griping if TNG etc. isn't on the radar for years?

I sometimes wonder what a wave a success. I mean wave 5 is mainly head swaps with slight modifications. You wonder how many must be made and how many sold.

#53 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Sybeck1 @ Nov 21 2009, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I sometimes wonder what a wave a success. I mean wave 5 is mainly head swaps with slight modifications. You wonder how many must be made and how many sold.


Well, the way I look at it, DST wouldn't have produced 1701 exclusive figures of Data and LaForge if it didn't make them SOME money, so I always assumed the cut-off was probably somewhere close to that number, at least for figures with a lot of part re-use. (They did, after all, already have both head sculpts for the TNG line already made, and were probably planning DS9 figures, making the bodies highly reusable)

I think if you assume every TRU got 1 case of figures, then that basic number (at least for Kang) works out, since the TRU official site says the have "merchandise in more than 1,550 stores"... say they have around 1600, plus another hundred or two for the website... and there ya go... you're in the same neighborhood, give or take.

The problem a figure like the salt vampire has (or medical scrub McCoy's torso), is that you literally can't use it for anything else other than that figure. I'm sure the minimum number is much higher for a figure like that.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but if this last TOS wave does die without being released, I hope that at least someone at DST considers donating the wave 5 prototypes for the Trektoy Autism Fundraiser. ... somebody in the hardcore fanbase who'll really appreciate it will get get one, AND more importantly, some good will come out of a figure that would otherwise never see the light of day.

#54 New Frontier

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 06:32 AM

Lets all be realistic here for a moment; Star Trek is, for the first time in over a decade, popular with more than just the loyal fan base - Toys R Us is a huge example of how popular Trek is at the moment otherwise they would have ended their deals with both DST and PM for Star Trek. I don't think this is a matter of popularity - the potential is there for Star Trek to become big in the toy shops and with kids and with the potential for it to become bigger over the next 5 years if the popularity is sustained by Paramount and CBS with them making sure especially kids don't loose interest in Star Trek and made exciting by both Playmates and Diamond Select Toys doing their very best in producing figures, play sets, ships, cars, role play that is more exciting than what they have offered so far - interactive toys, toys that play back, toys that kids and collectors can't say no to, i remember wanting all the Jurassic Park toys and all the Power Rangers toys because they were so much fun, and even now if i was as big a Star Wars and as i am a Star Trek fan i would want everything Hasbro do - Transformers too even their Indiana Jones line - i think if DST and PM should take inspiration from anyone it should be Hasbro... i digress...

I have a feeling there is a reason for the delay in Playmates wave 2 movie figures and the restructuring of DST's TOS wave's; DST and PM are joining forces to focus what is at the moment several messed up toy lines made by two companies who've probably not spoken to each other until this merger was agreed - and if my guess is right then it will be for the better since i think what needs to happen with Star Trek toys, similar to Star Wars toys, is for there to be a definitive scale to it and more to the point one or two companies working together to produce ONE great line of action figures in the 3 3/4 inch scale - IMO its the best scale for collectors and kids as proven with the success and continuing success of the Star Wars line. At the moment however it's all a bit messy and all over the place; you have DST producing head swaps in the 7 inch scale and Playmates producing movie figures in smaller scales and none of it really matches up and it makes a collectors job a nightmare because nine times out of ten they want ONE scale for EVERY incarnation of their favorite franchise. On top of that you have kids not really knowing what to collect so they don't bother and also because it's 1) two different companies making these figures and 2) they are in completely different markets - DST being more orientated to the collector and Playmates being more orientated towards the kids - by working together to produce Star Trek toys, it will give a Star Trek toy line a lot more focus and in turn become a lot easier for kids and collectors to... collect!!!

The down side to all of this conjecture is that the collectors who've spent the time and the money on Art Asylum and Diamond Select Toy's 7 inch figure collection are going to have their collection ended - which to me isn't as bad as it sounds, all we were ever going to get from DST was new heads on old bodies and after a while as seen recently with buyers not being at all enthusiastic about DST's Star Trek figures, it just gets very boring - all good things have to come to an end - i don't believe that just because if they stop doing 7 inch figures that it means that a new scale within a new line won't work. I for one would collect all of DST/PM 3 3/4 inch figures.

It also wouldn't hurt if between now and the release of Star Trek: (2?) that Paramount/CBS begin work on releasing by the summer of 2010 a new animated series similar to Clone Wars based within the new timeline - in order to keep kids and the fans of JJ Abrams Trek interested in Star Trek with a figure line based on the characters from an animated series.

#55 reverie

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE (New Frontier @ Nov 22 2009, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lets all be realistic here for a moment; Star Trek is, for the first time in over a decade, popular with more than just the loyal fan base


My thought, though, is that beyond the shiny new movie, Trek still isn't any more popular than it was a decade ago. Obviously the toys aren't selling. Everywhere I go the pegs are clogged with PM Trek movie figures that aren't going anywhere. There are still TMP & Amok Time 2 packs at most Toys I go to. I think Trek toys are about at an end myself.. especially judging by the two companies who "produce" them.

#56 slayerone76

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:27 AM

Let's all not forget that we are in one of the biggest financial slumps we've probably ever experienced in our short-lived lives.

Toys, in general, are not selling that well right now. Add in the fact that the loyalist Trek fan-base is so caught up in detail that they can't enjoy the toys anymore and we have a down-turn in sells.

I am glad that DST has stuck with us all these years. I can't even imagine the ugly, horrible messages they have received over the years because someone had a 1/100 of a nanometer gap in the neck of their $25 ship (just as an example mind you).

The fact that DST is even trying anymore still gives me hope.

I mean, we didn't even get BAD news this go round that we didn't already know or expect. Things aren't going well. DST still wants to get product out there ... somehow ... despite the fact that we aren't buying. What more should we expect?

#57 gkap

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (slayerone76 @ Nov 22 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let's all not forget that we are in one of the biggest financial slumps we've probably ever experienced in our short-lived lives.

Toys, in general, are not selling that well right now. Add in the fact that the loyalist Trek fan-base is so caught up in detail that they can't enjoy the toys anymore and we have a down-turn in sells.

I am glad that DST has stuck with us all these years. I can't even imagine the ugly, horrible messages they have received over the years because someone had a 1/100 of a nanometer gap in the neck of their $25 ship (just as an example mind you).

The fact that DST is even trying anymore still gives me hope.

I mean, we didn't even get BAD news this go round that we didn't already know or expect. Things aren't going well. DST still wants to get product out there ... somehow ... despite the fact that we aren't buying. What more should we expect?


I agree, I believe that the main problem with things not selling is the recession. I myself cut back drastically when I lost my job. I assume this happened to alot of other people. I think the real test will be when we get out of the recession, then we'll see what happens.

#58 bgiles73

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:51 AM

I also agree. Playmates and DST are just recession-proofing this line. Star Wars, Transformers, GI Joe, Batman and several other lines are all pegwarming, so I have no worries about Star Trek. It has alot of company warming those pegs as well!

#59 Gothneo

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:54 PM

All toy lines come to end sooner or latter. It's just the nature of them. Typically because of changes to the market and/or economics.

3 3/4 scale was invented by Kenner (when they had the SW license) as a reaction to rising costs of oil in the 1970's. Before then most product was either 1/6th scale or something a bit off scale like the MEGO 9".

The larger the scale, the better the detail, and paint applications are, so it's no surprise that the high-end collectibles are in 1/6th scale or sometimes (like SideShow's premium format) larger.

IMO the best product for the money out there is Hot Toys product. The paint applications and detail in the outfits is crazy insanely good.

But I digress. My point is that economics have changed over the past 3-4 years. Just like they changed in the mid 90's. In the mid 90's oil was cheap enough again that it made larger toy sizes profitable again. Thus there was a resurgence of 1/6 scale and 1/12th scale. But we are back to economics that make larger scale toys very expensive. The difference this time is that the larger scales woo'ed collectors, not the mass market. Thus the best of those, I think, will survive. Mass market toys, I, think, need some type of staying power.

I really think the days of cashing in quick on movie toy merchandise may be at an end. This is just an opinion, but I really have to ask when, outside of a Star Wars Movie, was the last time a movie toyline was a real hit? Recently I mean... Lord of the Rings did really well... so did the 1st two spiderman movies...

But in the last few years, it seems most have done poorly. The last spider-man failed to meet expectations... Wolvierine, Star Trek, Terminator, Speed Racer... these all failed...

Actually, I think the 1st Transformers movie was the last breakout hit that I can remember.

Toy lines with real appeal to kids... not collectors... are lines with really long term media tie-ins.

A movie every few years just doesn't cut it anymore.

#60 New Frontier

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 05:52 AM

QUOTE (bgiles73 @ Nov 22 2009, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also agree. Playmates and DST are just recession-proofing this line. Star Wars, Transformers, GI Joe, Batman and several other lines are all pegwarming, so I have no worries about Star Trek. It has alot of company warming those pegs as well!


I actually agree, i go to Toys R Us occasionally and nothing really moves, you can go in there weeks apart from each other and nothing moves off the shelf. I think DST and PM (Hasbro are undoubtedly doing the same) are closing it all up for 2009 and crossing their fingers for 2010 when they can release what i hope to be a comprehensive line of Star Trek action figures that will be enjoyable for the collector and kid to collect and that will at first cover the new movie and TOS with the possibility of it moving into TNG at least.

I don't think DST and PM will bother with DS9 and VOY or ENT - those shows are far too niche for toy lines so i'd expect some of the more high end companies like eFx to take on those shows.




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