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The reason Trek Canon Is being erased?


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#21 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:45 PM

the flicks are suddenly shoving some SJW agenda down their throats by hiring women and non-whites in key roles? Are people complaining it isn't "free" anymore because they have to buy a movie ticket?

 

Both the original Star Trek and the original M:I had diverse casts so I'm not sure why you're trying to make me out as a racist/sexist other than you can't stand that I don't like what you like.



#22 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:50 PM

Seriously, you guys might as well just say it plainly: "If you don't like Discovery you're racist"



#23 Alteran195

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:12 PM

Are "fans" outraged because the flicks are suddenly shoving some SJW agenda down their throats by hiring women and non-whites in key roles?


The fact that there are fans out there that are outraged by this is crazy. Star Trek is and always has been a liberal show.

#24 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:14 PM

Poor, victimized Discovery because of a few mentally ill alt-right nerds.



#25 Alteran195

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:30 PM

 

Both the original Star Trek and the original M:I had diverse casts so I'm not sure why you're trying to make me out as a racist/sexist other than you can't stand that I don't like what you like.

He never called you personally racist or sexist, at least that wasn't my takeaway from his comment. He was asking if there were fans of Mission impossible that were making the same type of stupid complaints about it as some Trek fans do with the Kelvin movies and Discovery. 

 

Seriously, you guys might as well just say it plainly: "If you don't like Discovery you're racist"

If someone has an issue with Discovery because it has a black female  lead, or more minority characters (which id doesn't), then in those cases yes, the person is slightly racist/sexist whether they want to admit it or not. 

 

You can dislike the character, their story-line, or the actors acting ability all you want. But if the main issue you have is that they're not white, or that they're a female, then it's a problem. Especially when its a franchise that has always been about equality and diversity. 

 

Same goes for having an issue with Stamets or Culber just because they're gay. 



#26 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:35 PM

I have no problem with diverse casts. Like I said, Star Trek and M;I have been diverse since the beginning. I grew up idolizing black NBA players as well as people of color on shows like Trek. There's more to disliking the new stuff than race/gender/orientation.



#27 MisterPL

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Nigel, you compared Trek to M:I.

 

I was asking questions.

 

Still waiting for answers.



#28 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:12 PM

Well, it's not an exact comparison...but the two franchises are related if you know the history. There was a brief comeback of M:I in the 80s but it wasn't all that good or well liked (perhaps like Enterprise wasn't?) so in 1995 we got the feature film which did great but, to me, diverged from the formula of the original series (Greg Morris reportedly hated it, I'm not sure how Nimoy or Graves felt). So M:I went on to be a totally different thing. The same happened with Star Trek 2009. Big, blockbuster film that departed from the formula of previous Treks and it hasn't been the same since. People say "well, there were people who said the same thing about TNG when it came out," but I was young when TNG came out and I grew up watching it, DS9 and Voyager. I didn't discover TOS until the 2004 DVD release (I had seen it before but wasn't able to see much). So I guess there are people now who have "grown up" with Chris Pine as Kirk and I guess the recent news would be not so great for them, they have my sympathy. I just "know what I like" and that is mainly TOS after the past 15 years. I re-watch it a few times a week. Sorry if I seem brash at times, I am not always as sensitive about things as I should be when I get talking online. I still love collecting Trek which is why I still come to these forums to see what people have to say about the new collectibles. Perhaps I shouldn't have waded into this subject and kept my mouth shut? Who knows.



#29 Gothneo

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:35 PM

nope. they pretty much just kept building on the film continuity for the I:m movies...



#30 Nigel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:42 PM

nope. they pretty much just kept building on the film continuity for the I:m movies...

 

The first film had the Jim Phelps character (like Star Trek 2009 has Kirk and Spock) but played by a different actor (same as 2009). The film established a new continuity within the film series apart from what we saw in the original series 66-73 and the newer series 88-89. And yes, there are fans of the original that don't like the Tom Cruise film series....



#31 Gothneo

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:02 PM

Oh... yeah... ok... I thought we were talking about the continuity of the Cruise films... those are pretty straight forward.



#32 MisterPL

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:01 AM

Well, it's not an exact comparison...but the two franchises are related if you know the history. There was a brief comeback of M:I in the 80s but it wasn't all that good or well liked (perhaps like Enterprise wasn't?) so in 1995 we got the feature film which did great but, to me, diverged from the formula of the original series (Greg Morris reportedly hated it, I'm not sure how Nimoy or Graves felt). So M:I went on to be a totally different thing. The same happened with Star Trek 2009. Big, blockbuster film that departed from the formula of previous Treks and it hasn't been the same since. People say "well, there were people who said the same thing about TNG when it came out," but I was young when TNG came out and I grew up watching it, DS9 and Voyager. I didn't discover TOS until the 2004 DVD release (I had seen it before but wasn't able to see much). So I guess there are people now who have "grown up" with Chris Pine as Kirk and I guess the recent news would be not so great for them, they have my sympathy. I just "know what I like" and that is mainly TOS after the past 15 years. I re-watch it a few times a week. Sorry if I seem brash at times, I am not always as sensitive about things as I should be when I get talking online. I still love collecting Trek which is why I still come to these forums to see what people have to say about the new collectibles. Perhaps I shouldn't have waded into this subject and kept my mouth shut? Who knows.

 

 

Now I understand. Thanks for explaining your point, Nigel.

 

Yeah, imagine if Abrams rebooted Trek and immediately killed off half the bridge crew and made Kirk the bad guy! (Actually that might have made a compelling Mirror Universe plot, but I digress...)

 

Cruise has definitely done his own thing, moving M:I from an ensemble piece to his star vehicle. I'd ague it was more of a Battlestar Galactica reimagining that what happened with Trek, though. Abrams kept canon intact by creating the alternate timeline. It's just a different playground with fewer rules thanks to it being a new continuity.

 

As for criticism of Discovery, most or what I've read has been about how "it should be free" or that the show is suddenly "pushing a progressive, liberal agenda." People leveling these gripes insist they're long-time fans but that doesn't seem likely since they've apparently never paid for movie tickets, novels, or video games and are unaware that Trek has always been progressive. If anyone's making the same ridiculous complaints about M:I, I'd dismiss them just as quickly.

 

Of course there have been legitimate gripes about Discovery (pacing, tone, etc.) but they're few and far between. Most of the complaints are so superficial I have to wonder if the critics are all that familiar with the franchise, which is why I question if they're actually fans at all. 



#33 Gothneo

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:37 PM

Of course there have been legitimate gripes about Discovery (pacing, tone, etc.) but they're few and far between. Most of the complaints are so superficial .... 

 

Actually, I think there are a number of legitimate complaints about DISCO... maybe not a huge number.. but I think they are rather large... 






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