1901 replies to this topic

[Alteran195]

I don't know how I feel about The Walking Dead being on that list. 

 

Sure it's a huge show, but man is it bad now.  

[Gothneo]

I've heard that it went down hill. Again... there are a number of shows I don't care for on that list. For example your never going to get me to watch Golden Girls, but I get why its on the list.

[s8film40]

Well, if the rumors about "GoT in space" are true (which honestly they probably are, because what know-nothing executives wouldn't sit there saying "whatever you do, make it like GoT" these days) then I can tell you not to expect this to be kid-friendly stuff you can make little Playmates toys out of.  GoT has toys/collectibles, but anything like action figures are limited to comic/specialty shops as was mentioned.  And let us make no mistake whatsoever, GoT is a global phenomenon the likes of which we have not seen on television in a long, long time.  To imagine that Trek, even if GoT-ified, could ever reach as many people as GoT has...is fooling oneself.  Soooo....just remember that.  It's not going to lend itself that well to toys right out of the gate.

Well GoT toys are in my local Target and TRU and have been for quite some time. First they had the 6" line and they're now carrying the 3 3/4" line. I also don't think they're going to go for the adult level like GoT, GoT is HBO this is CBS they're going to go a little more mainstream. The first episode at the very least has to meet broadcast standards. I would suspect that they will want all episodes to meet those standards just in case they want to air the episodes at some future point or for a special event or something.

[Gothneo]

I get why GoT was such a phenom... but for me it just got tiresome and I lost interest. they should have wrapped it up by now. 

[Whirlygig]

I like Golden Girls!

You're right of course about TRU. They have had an adult section for awhile now which is effectively a specialty/comic shop within TRU. And Target dabbles too...and Walmart has gotten into that game. But...you know what I mean. Those products aren't out there for kids. They're for adults. And you can make GoT "broadcast friendly" but it will still be a show that doesn't lend to toys for a larger market that includes kids. Not even Enterprise did really...

I really do agree that TNG (and TOS) was in the perfect storm in a bygone era where everyone pretty much had to watch the same shows and "event television" in a way we just don't have anymore. There's no going back to that. I watch Walking Dead and I like it quite a bit but I have to wait for home video since I have no other (legal) means to see it and same with GoT back when I still watched it. GoT is amazing in how many people go out of their way to see it because its even more costly to obtain legally. I don't see Trek being able to say that in this new world. Even if we all love it. Perhaps especially if *we* all love it. TNG was free...for everyone with a set...and on at prime time which had its name for a reason!

[Alteran195]

I'm surprised parents haven't pitched a fit about GoT toys being in Toysrus like they did with Breaking Bad stuff.

[s8film40]

I like Golden Girls!

You're right of course about TRU. They have had an adult section for awhile now which is effectively a specialty/comic shop within TRU. And Target dabbles too...and Walmart has gotten into that game. But...you know what I mean. Those products aren't out there for kids. They're for adults. And you can make GoT "broadcast friendly" but it will still be a show that doesn't lend to toys for a larger market that includes kids. Not even Enterprise did really...

I really do agree that TNG (and TOS) was in the perfect storm in a bygone era where everyone pretty much had to watch the same shows and "event television" in a way we just don't have anymore. There's no going back to that. I watch Walking Dead and I like it quite a bit but I have to wait for home video since I have no other (legal) means to see it and same with GoT back when I still watched it. GoT is amazing in how many people go out of their way to see it because its even more costly to obtain legally. I don't see Trek being able to say that in this new world. Even if we all love it. Perhaps especially if *we* all love it. TNG was free...for everyone with a set...and on at prime time which had its name for a reason!

You know thinking back to the days when all the major stores carried the vast array of Playmates figures there really wasn't an adult section for toys. I think part of the reason the line did so well is there was at the time an emerging adult market for action figures and it appealed somewhat to kids as well. I was somewhere in between at the time and i do specifically remember a very large number of adult collectors who followed the line. I even got to know some of them at the time as we would often follow the same routes on our toy hunting trips. I did see kids buying them but that seemed to be the minority to me. I think in addition to many of us growing up and still sticking with collecting much of the stigma of a grown adult collecting toys has faded somewhat, although my wife would deny that. I think if Discovery does well it could reignite interest in collecting a line of Star Trek figures. I don't think it's appeal to children matters at all now to a much greater degree than before.

[Gothneo]

I like Golden Girls!

 

Proving why its on that list! 

 

For me it was Marvel Legends that got me into Toy Collecting... which grew out of comics. I never collected playmates toys, but when AA did TOS, I was hooked on those!

 

Back in the early 2000's toys were really quite cheap! $8 for a 6" figure! I think the TOS AA were about $10 ea. We went through a shock to cost of product... basically doubling in price... things seem to have stabilized now... but there was a mini golden age of action figure collecting!

[Whirlygig]

I'm surprised parents haven't pitched a fit about GoT toys being in Toysrus like they did with Breaking Bad stuff.

 

Well, I don't *think* any GoT figures come with bags of crystal meth, but, I could be wrong...

 

I think part of the reason the line did so well is there was at the time an emerging adult market for action figures and it appealed somewhat to kids as well.

 

That could be.  I do know that I *was* a kid at the time, and though I didn't buy many Trek toys back then, I had friends who were buying Trek toys...more than one.  Playmates figures and Micro Machines.  Personally I was more obsessed with Star Wars in those days.

 

Back in the early 2000's toys were really quite cheap! $8 for a 6" figure! I think the TOS AA were about $10 ea. We went through a shock to cost of product... basically doubling in price... things seem to have stabilized now... but there was a mini golden age of action figure collecting!

 

$10 for TOS AA?  Really?  I don't quite remember.  I do seem to remember more the $15 range for a time.

[Gothneo]

AA came out with ENT toys first, which were at all the big box stores, With ML at about the $8 price point, AA had to be about $10 to be competitive. When DST took over AA, they had to raise the price because they really sold mostly to speciality shops and had lower production runs... so the price went up to around $15. They really barely got the TOS bridge crew out before being sold to DST... I think by that time Prices were closer to $12.99 as they started to edge up. But thats just my recollection.

[1701D]

So any list of top 10 or whatever is great but not entirely accurate obviously but it does show you something. Star Trek is slowly becoming irrelevant to the world.

I don't want to get into another argument over why Star Trek isn't irrelevant because personally to me, Star Trek will never be irrelevant.

But outside of our little bubble of fandom, Star Trek is old hat, it's cultural importance and impact notwithstanding, the relevance of that importance and impact has been erroded over time and hasn't really been improved to a sufficient level with the Abrams movies, however much fun they are and however many new fans they've brought into the franchise, we are still looking at a Star Trek franchise failing to reach out to become something people MUST watch.

Star Trek: Discovery has a monumental task - to make Star Trek something people MUST see and MUST like again. It has to reignight not just our passion for the ideas and stories Star Trek has always pioneered but it must introduce the concept of Star Trek and make it relevant and interesting and important for someone who hasn't ever been interested in Star Trek.

Whether it's a series that appeals to families or adults, has a expansive merchandise roll out or not, is structured much like Game of Thrones, or a series that contradicts and ruins canon and continuity between it and past Star Trek's is almost immaterial at this point because all of those things can be developed, fleshed out and redeveloped if the series takes off.

Star Trek: Discovery doesn't just have to be good, it has to change the game, it has to be gripping. It has to be something that gets all of the nerd mags, mainstream publications and general media talking and raving about this new Star Trek. About how "Star Trek is back from the brink", about how "Star Trek is relevant again".

Otherwise, if Star Trek: Discovery is good but doesn't do anything that previous star treks haven't done before or does what GOT Is doing now or emulates whatever the hottest Tv show is without being bold and risky then I do fear that Star Trek will go away to be remembered fondly but to never really have much impact on anyone.

It stands at number 18 on that list for a very good reason. Star Trek is still important. But it won't be forever if CBS don't push this franchise into strange new worlds.

If Discovery challenges what we all see as the normal, if it challenges all kinds of boundaries; be they religious freedoms, war, politics, terrorism, race, sexuality and does it in a way that holds up to the principles and philosophy Gene Roddenberry wanted for his Star Trek, but goes further in an era where we have moved on from what we deemed right and wrong in the 60's. If it pioneers science fiction and comes into a very crowded genre and says; this is how it's done and invites all sorts of thoughtful and meaningful discussion on society and our future then it's done it's job. If it relies too much on Star Trek legacy and law, if it becomes too much like the new movies then it's failed.

As for toys; we live in a golden age of collecting. From Hasbro's Black Series, Marvel legends, Mattel's DC multiverse line, LEGO, Hot Toys, Mezco One:12... the list goes on and on and on...

I would be very surprised if they (CBS Consumer Products) aren't gearing up for some great collectible lines for Discovery.

Qmx, Eaglemoss I would expect both to be bringing out some sweet Star Trek: Discovery product.

I think SDCC will be where we see a lot of Star Trek: Discovery talk and product launches.

[MisterPL]

One advantage TNG had over the 2009 reboot; it wasn't trying to replace TOS, only succeed it. 

 

No one likes to be reminded of their mortality and that's what Abrams' Star Trek did. Unlike TNG, which could have had cameos by any of the original main cast members,  the reboot hit Trekkies with the notion that if they wanted more movies with Kirk and crew, it would have to be without Shatner and the rest because that cast – as well as the fans – was dying off.

 

TNG debuted at a time when the franchise had just come off its most popular film (TVH) and was looking forward to three more films that included original cast members. And there was always the possibility that folks like Nimoy and Doohan could be featured in TV story arcs. Circumstances were different then. TNG wasn't perceived as a usurper but I still recall a fair amount of skepticism and doubt.

 

And the reason Florida Mom isn't freaking out over Game of Thrones toys at TRU is because no one has told her about them. She wasn't the one who discovered the Breaking Bad figures in the aisles. It was an acquaintance who alerted her. So let's all do what we can to keep her happy. After all, ignorance is bliss.

[Gothneo]

And they did work many TOS stars into TNG. 

 

McCoy, Spock and Scotty where all nicely done!

 

You may be right MisterPL... but I would hope people had come to terms with the idea that the TOS Cast was def in the twilight. 

 

We'd already lost Kelly, Doohan and Barret, and Nimoy wasn't far off :-( 
 

Shatner, Takei, Nichols and Koenig are all thats left of the core crew, and in less than a month, the youngest of them, Takei, Turns 80!

 

Personally, the new crew isn't what turned me off... just uninspired writing. 

[1701D]

The TOS crew were becoming a bit unbelievable as astronauts exploring the final frontier by Star Trek V let alone VI. The TNG crew wasn't far off being in their twilight either with Nemesis... I mean Brent Spiner was clearly an "old" man in gold makeup in that movie. We accepted it, perhaps forgave that because we loved that character but maybe they had over stayed their welcome for those fans or casuals that had probably wanted to see more from a franchise that by the time Nemesis rocked up, had maybe lost its identity and its unique blend of wagon train, gunho action and cerebral optimistic philosophy.

Star Trek 2009 perhaps delivered on a lot of things that a lot of fans felt Star Trek had lost over the decade prior to 2009 but granted, didn't deliver a lot on the thought-provoking cerebral quality people loved about a lot of TNG.

It would be nice to have Scott Bakula or Jolene Blalok appear in cameo roles but I mean my hope is that Star Trek: Discovery will blend a lot of the different aspects that have made Star Trek great for fans over the last 50 years into its stories, its aesthetic and perhaps if it continues into an 8th season we begin to see it blend into TOS. I think Rogue One is a great example to use here and my personal fanboy hope is that through the success of Discovery CBS can then think about ways in which to expand upon the success and begin to weave in and out of the already established canon in the same way Star Wars is doing, in the same way DC and Marvel have done and to tap into different parts of the Prime AND Kelvin timelines with new characters, established secondary characters and maybe even do a movie about a retired Admiral Picard - look at the movie Logan, small budget, small cast, highly character driven. So yeah I'd love to see these unique stories on multiple platforms and in multiple different formats; video games, toys, animation, comics and most importantly; live action TV.

I think it's important that CBS and now Paramount look beyond just the next movie or the next series and start to put together a plan and a team of people, maybe its JJ Abrams, maybe it's Bad Robot as the go between production company that works with Paramount and CBS to begin marrying these two studio visions for Star Trek together to create a Star Trek multiverse. Whether or not that is going to happen I think it's important that whilst they try to generate new fans, they begin to integrate the different pieces of Star Trek more so that it all looks to be one shared universe rather than Paramounts take on Star Trek and CBS's take on Star Trek with neither looking like the other and whilst it's made clear you need no encyclopaedic knowledge of Star Trek, here is a universe of stories, characters and aliens that you wont find in any other franchise for you to explore without feeling the weight of 50 years of canon.

How do you open up Star Trek to someone who has never seen Star Trek? The same way Marvel have opened up their universe. I've not read every marvel comic but I'm hooked on their movies. Same with DC.

So how do you do that with Star Trek? Invest in expanding the characters you have; Kirk, Spock, Scotty, McCoy, Uhura, Kor, Worf, Picard, Khan, Data, Soong, Riker, 7of9, Janeway, EMH, Khaless, Garth of Isar, Jaylah, George Kirk, Carol Marcus, O'Brian Sisko, Dax, Odo, Quark, Dukat, Gowron, Martok, The Borg Queen... there are so many characters that could be given great stand alone stories as origin anthology movies. You've also got some superb comic books that could be adapted into movies. Countdown, Khan: Ruling in Hell... Harlan Ellison's City on the Edge of Forever... so many points in canon that have been spoken about but never shown; Earth/Romulan War, Cardassian Occupation of Bajor.

[robster]

Of COURSE they're gonna hype the crap outta this thing at Comic-Con! Probably ONE of the reasons for pushing the release date,lol! And I will certainly ask at various booths for info.

 

J-R!

[Gothneo]

If they finally have a release date by then, you may get to see a preview at comic con! 

 

Hopefully they have at least have the pilot done by then!

[1701D]

I think there will be a panel with cast and crew/writers followed by a preview/trailer.

[MisterPL]

Rainn Wilson has been cast to play Harry Mudd.

 

http://variety.com/2...udd-1202019986/

 

Nevermind the 27-year age difference between his prequel-era Mudd and Roger C. Carmel's TOS incarnation in 1967.

 

Maybe he's playing Harry's father. 

[Alteran195]

The only reference for a DOB for Mudd is 2219, which would make him 36 during Discovery in 2255.

They could easily make Rainn look younger than he is, especially since he doesn't look that old. Hell, he looks younger than Mudd did during TOS.

For the most part the actors age is irrelevant to the character they're playing.

[Gothneo]

Hmmmm.... seems so unnecessary to even bring Mudd into a new series... to me its just pandering to fans of TOS, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.