1324 replies to this topic

[TheHSBR]

Im sure based on how the BoP does, DST will decide whether or not to continue villian ships. I too love the way the TWOK ship looks and the light bleed is a minor issue in my mind. Having said that I do think a new E is needed because its really needs the LED upgrade. I think a whiter E will look great too. Finally I want to make a few customs and right now the E is somewhat difficult to come by.

[Stormfury_Echo]

I have to say, as a follow up to my previous statement about the windows, that I think DST should release decals for the windows to color them dark. It would be tedious work, for sure, but I think people would be happier with the results.

[Alex]

Shame about it not being the FC version but still...could anyone post the pics they find of this toy here? I've found a few but I wonder if there are more out there of different angles?

1701, the FC version would require an entirely new mold rather than a simple retooling. AA/DST went with the NEM version not only because it was "current" when Play Along's Art Asylum began sculpting the ship, but because it was the version of the ship John Eaves wanted to create for FC; time constraints, money, and the physics involved with using a large wooden filming model all contributed to design changes. The FC version has the nacelle pylons placed differently on the (secondary) hull, which itself is shaped differently, and I believe the saucer is also slightly different on the bottom. Also, the "correct" color scheme would be closer to that of the pearlesent WOK 1701, which means preventing light-bleed would be more difficult. The only portion of the current mold that you might be able to retool for an FC variant is the engines. The mold for the Enterprise-E itself is incredibly simplistic, the engines are a three pieces, and the rest of the visible portion of the ship is two pieces, plus a third clear plastic piece for lights on the impulse engines. The "top" and a "bottom" portions of the mold hold the electronics, the nacelle pylons are part of the "bottom" mold. Someone posted pictures awhile back and I saved them.

The bridge button wasn't blacked out on the first batch that were produced--DST caught this though and corrected the rest of the run, unfortunately, most of the non-blacked out bridge domes went to the AGT-D, but they're identical to the standard "D" so you can replace them if you have a defective "D" with a blacked out button--just a thought. DST has proven that they try to learn from their mistakes whenever they reissue a ship, they went from rice bulbs to LEDs for the WOK 1701, reissued it and tried to fix the light bleed, and may do so again should it be reissued. DST fixed the nacelles on the NX-01 when they reissued it right after they acquired Art Asylum from Play Along, and they've already stated they'd correct the window issue on the Enterprise-D. As for pictures, I've only seen the ones that were already linked to here, which total up to three.

honestly, I'm kind of scared for them to include LED's, because the light bleed would, no doubt, be horrendous. The other issue that I am concerned with is that they're going to paint the windows. My beef with that idea is that, while it works in theory, is that they are far too small to correctly paint without all of the slop and mess that we got with the TWOK Enterprise...I guess we'd better start getting on Chuck about these concerns before it gets too close to release to have anything done about potentially overlooked flaws.

The light bleed can be prevented as has been noted by others; DST just needs to "black out" the inside of the ship, which they've done before. The additional detail on the hull may also be an attempt to obscure any light bleed. The As far as the Windows go, DST fixed the "slop and mess" issue on the reissue of the WOK 1701; it's much cleaner than the initial run was, at least mine is. We also don't know if DST has retained the "indented" windows that the original tooling had, which usually caused the "slop and mess" with the paint, or if they "flattened" the mold and decided to paint the windows the way that they did with the Enterprise-D. Furthermore, from the pictures that I've seen of the new Enterprise-E, it doesn't look like DST is going to attempt to paint the windows onto the ship; I looked at their placement on the current mold (which should be relatively similar) and the "D" and there's nothing that looks like the "black dashes" that DST uses for windows in any of the pictures, so it's possible that they've already realized that they shouldn't paint the windows on such a detailed ship. Of course, I'm assuming that the retooled mold (and you're right, it's definitely retooled,) retains the "indented" windows.

I concur, the next Trek-related AskDST should probably be dedicated to the new Enterprise-E since it's probably going to be ready before the BoP and the Enterprise-B/Excelsior. DST seems to be going "balls-to-the-wall" to make sure that this version is better than the last one, but it wouldn't hurt to ask Chuck anyway just to be sure.

I dont remember the Ent-D having major issues with light bleed. I think the only one that had a major issue was the TWOK Ent because it used that pearly white plastic/paint that didnt really give the ship a good light barrier. If they put a base coat of primer over the plastic model which they did with the 1701 and Ent D, the light bleed should be pretty minimal. I too am worrried at the intricatness of the paint scheme because any company could easily mess that up and even a small mistake is hugely noticeable and will likely ruin your opinion of the ship.

Good points Andy. The Ent-D only had a major issue with the bridge domes on some AGT-D's (e.g. mine,) where they didn't black out the inside, it was minor and easily excusable though. The TWOK 1701 was the ship that had real problems and that's because it was the first ship (that I'm aware of at least,) that DST put LEDs in, and they were using a mold/plastic that was intended for rice bulbs initially; they simply didn't expect the light-bleed to be as bad as it was when they made the switch. The new WOK 1701 is marginally better, but they didn't "black out" the inside like they should have, and Chuck even admitted that the updated version could've been better. The intricatness of the paint scheme actually doesn't worry me too much; it looks to be on par with the rather intricate NX-01.

I'm more worried about ships like the TOS 1701 that lack a certain level of detail. It's ships like this where the "off-center" windows and other minor flaws become extremely noticeable because there's nothing to obscure said flaw and to detract one's attention from it. Remember, you yourself pointed this out in my thread about the defective HD 1701 that I'd received, as well as other TOS ships that seemed to have flaws. Again, just an alternative perspective.

As far as the E-E is concerned, I don't understand why we needed a retooling of it. It has slight nits you can make on it, but overall I think it was a pretty good release with a paint job that could have been better. I'd rather we'd gotten a repaint and DST had saved the money to give us a Defiant, Voyager, TOS Romulan BOP, or TOS (or TMP for greater detail) Klingon Battlecruiser before we saw a retooled E. I know a lot of people have been clamoring for it, though, so I guess I'm just out of step.

Come to think of it... why hasn't DST gotten us a TOS Klingon battlecruiser?! Simply by painting a bird on the bottom, they could make a Romulan variant

A TWOK 1701 w/light bleed is better than no TWOK 1701 at all in my book, so I think we can agree there. The E-E probably didn't need a total retooling, but as I noted above, DST seems to be going above and beyond with this particular release to fix every little issue that the original E-E had. Remember, it wasn't the paint job that did in the E-E, it was the overall quality drop, missing "blue" engine lights, missing play cover and a string of issues that hurt the E-E. DST seems to usually use retooling to justify the addition of things like LEDs, and since they're giving us an accurate paint job, I see no harm in them fixing a few other flaws in the process, now if DST was simply reissuing the previous ship with the same paint job and rice bulbs and retooled it, then I'd probably be in total agreement with you. Don't forget, it's much cheaper for DST to retool a ship than to create a new one from scratch. Retooling the "E" and selling it again allows DST to generate income and to pay off the mold that they have. As Andy/TheHSBR has noted before, variants are the best way to allow DST to break even on the mold quickly so that they can turn a profit and move onto the next ship. The Enterprise-D, despite it's great sales, has still not broken even, because DST still needs to sell more of them to cover the costs of tooling. The Enterprise-E has likely broken even, or will break-even with this particular run.

The answer to your question about a Klingon D-7/Romulan Battlecruiser is the same as the answer to why we haven't gotten the Defiant, Voyager, Romulan BOP, K'Tinga Battlecruiser, or the Enterprise-C: DST has to tool entirely new molds from scratch for these, and that costs quite a bit more money than retooling an existing mold. Right now DST is operating at a loss on the Enterprise-D, even though it sold incredibly well in its first run; they'll need to use the mold a few more times to break even and start turning a profit. The new Enterprise-E has likely broken even or will break-even with this run, and then DST can turn a profit on that. Likewise we're looking at at least another run of the 1701-D and maybe a variant before DST turns a profit on that mold. The NX-01, 1701-A, and TOS 1701 are all likely turning a profit, because DST has used those molds the most, three, four, and six times respectively, if memory serves me correctly. Also, let's not forget that DST has a rather fancy Klingon BOP, Enterprise-B, and Excelsior in the works, so that's three more ships that require new molds or mold variations, and which will be "in the red" for awhile so to speak.

Finally, I can think of one more reason DST might be retooling the Enterprise-E, and 1701 (the member) kind of alluded to it before. The original Enterprise-E was built before DST designed their ships to be easily modified/retooled, (e.g. the Ent-D to the AGT-D, and potentially the Excelsior to the Ent-B,) in an effort to save costs. If DST is retooling the mold, it could be so that they can easily create a "First Contact" variant down the road which would further justify the cost and tooling of the mold for the Ent-E. I also know that Chuck said there was distributor interest in the Enterprise-E, so that's a pretty good reason to release the new Enterprise-E too.

[Stormfury_Echo]

LOL, I was living in Boone, NC when the last Enterprise E was released. Now, 4 years later, I am again living in Boone, having just moved back less than a month ago after being gone for all those years, and once again waiting on another Enterprise E. Irony!!!!
So, think this E-E thread will break the 100 page barrier like the other one did on the AA sites?

[Commodore Kor'Tar]

LOL I hope DST doesn't keep us waiting long enough for this topic to reach 100 pages

Remember, This IS DST we're talking about!

[Alex]

So, think this E-E thread will break the 100 page barrier like the other one did on the AA sites?

It will if people like me keep posting in it. Seriously, I remember the 100+ page thread on the old AA boards; the hype for the 1701-E was amazing; I don't think I'd ever seen more discussion of any other upcoming toy ship anywhere, and the 1701-A had gotten quite a bit of discussion itself. One advantage that thread had over this one though was that the Enterprise-E was in development for over a year, while this new Enterprise-E should be out by January 2011 unless DST surprises us and releases it sooner, much the way the MU and HD 1701's were released sooner than initially anticipated. Either way, it gives fans less time to speculate to the point of breaking the hundred-page barrier. Of course, on the flip-side, we now have a DST 1701-E to compare the new ship too rather than the sub-standard Playmates releases, (I'm being really kind about the INS release here too, sub-standard is an understatement,) so a direct quality comparison and "wish list of changes" can be made, and this new version of the 1701-E is under even more scrutiny than the first one, so it's quite possible that the 100-page barrier could be broken again. After all, we're already three pages down, so that's only 96 more to go.

Good points raised but as I recall Eaves only went back to redesign parts of the Enterprise - E at first because for this movie, it required more aft facing weaponry, which it didn't require in First Contact and since the ship would have had to have been re-designed from scratch for Nemesis on the computer, Eaves took the chance to rework some things and update the design slightly from that of FC and INS, not as I recall because he had really wanted to since First Contact but because he had to add in aft facing torpedo launchers and felt that this would be a great chance to give it a bit of a space-lift. If you think about it, had it been a life long dream of Eaves to do what you assume couldn't have been done with a physical model, he would have done so for Insurrection which also had to be re-made as a digital model (Blue Sky FX did the CGI in Insurrection) but as I recall, Eaves didn't feel it necessary then to rework the ship's design whilst designing the captains yacht and other ships for that movie.

Again, you've raised several good points as well, but I do have a few comments I'd like to add in here too.

First, Eaves began designing the Enterprise-E roughly five-six months before First Contact received any official go-ahead. During those five to six months, the "E" went through several designs until Eaves settled on the one that we're familiar with. By the time "First Contact" was green-lit, the Enterprise-E was almost finished, which was important, because Eaves still had to design the rest of the ships for the Borg battle, the Phoenix, the Vulcan ship, the bridge of the Enterprise-E, as well as every prop that would be used in First Contact. Another ship Eaves was working on, the U.S.S. Endeavor, was a Miranda/Nebula-class style ship, that was ultimately cut from the final film. The Endeavor was originally to play a key role in the opening scene of "First Contact," where it was to be used for "target practice" by the Borg, much the way that the Kelvin was used for "Target Practice" by Nero and the crew of the Narada. The Endeavor was dropped though and the scene was revised to use the Defiant in it's place; this was done to get Worf "into the film and onto the Enterprise," according to Eaves.

[Alex]

Also, I was slightly wrong about the Enterprise-E used in INS, and you were slightly wrong about the Enterprise-E used in FC, 1701. The "Blue Sky FX" CGI model was originally designed for, and used in FC. However, a physical model, built by ILM was also designed for use in FC. There were several reasons that two models were needed. First, physical models looked more realistic than CGI models due to the limitations of the computers used at the time FC was made. Second, because of the "space walk" scene on the deflector dish, and the need to create an exterior set of the Enterprise-E, it was decided that a physical model of the entire ship was justifiable. The establishing shots of the Enterprise-E needed to match the exterior "deflector dish" set. Similarly, the CGI model was needed for the types of FX that were wanted in the "Borg battle" scene and to show the escape pods being launched, which were also CGI renderings.

Eaves did rework the "Blue Sky FX" model slightly for INS, adding three docking ports to the rear of the saucer section that were on the physical model in First Contact, but not on its digital counterpart. The captain's yacht portion of the saucer was also slightly modified for INS, most likely because the CGI model had to match a physical model, and the physical model of the 1701-E didn't have a detachable capatain's yacht in it. As you've noted, Eaves had to design the Captain's Yacht itself as well as everything else for INS, so there really wasn't a lot of time to rework the Enterprise-E. What's more, unlike FC and NEM, very little of INS actually took place on the Enterprise, so Paramount didn't see the need to build another physical model to match the full-scale captain's yacht "set" (which was it's own kind of model,) or tweak the Enterprise-E too much, when it wasn't going to be constantly used for establishing shot after establishing shot. The CGI model was once again needed though for FX.

Also, I never said that reworking the Enterprise-E was Eaves' life long dream, although, he himself makes it sound like it was a ship that he was very close too from day one; take a look at the "Star Trek Sketchbook" which he co-authored with J.M. Dillard to see just how much time Eaves gave the Enterprise-E.

The Blue Sky FX model was extremely primitive by 2002 standards, and, as you've noted, rather than rework the old CGI model to add additional weaponry, Eaves opted to have Digital Muse/Digital Domain (same company) give the ship a "space-lift" for NEM. A new model was also needed because the quality of the film used for NEM was higher than that which was used for FC and INS, and much, much more detail was going to be visible on said film. Even though the ship would be digitially rendered, it too would be placed on actual film to "match" the film that movie itself was shot on. Eaves took this particular opportunity to redesign the 1701-E rather than recreate the previous model with additional weaponry. The exterior paint scheme of the 1701-E from FC had been designed to match the colors used on the "interior" sets, this scheme was carried over into INS, but since Eaves had the chance to redesign the ship, he opted to change the exterior paint scheme so that it would once again match the interior paint scheme. If you look at the NEM model, you'll note that it has very sharp contrasts, and is quite "dark," which is similar to the interior color scheme used on the sets in NEM as well.

[Alex]

Also, I was wrong about the ship being made of wood; I was thinking of the WOK 1701, which was indeed made of wood in some sections, including the shuttle bay. You covered most of the changes made to the 1701-E, although the engines themselves were also slightly modified. Again, it's barely noticeable--it's not meant to be noticeable--but if you compare the FC/INS Blue Sky FX model to the Digital Domain one, you'll note that the nacelles have been streamlined as well.

For DST to change the toy however from the Nemesis version into the FC version would, I agree, after watching the DVD special features, It would require an almost brand new mould so It's logical that it remains the Nemesis design - what I don't really get is that this ship is essentially a TNG ship really, so why they don't advertise it as that, I'm not sure... but I've already voiced that opinion.

The ship likely isn't advertised as a TNG ship for several reasons, first the previous version was often advertised as a TNG ship; a common theme on the AA/DST boards when the 1701-E was in development was "I want the Nemesis Enterprise-E...without the Nemesis stigma attached to it." In Fact, AA/DST went out of their way to not refer to it solely as an NEM ship, it used recolored TWOK-style packaging, it mentioned NEM first and in the largest type font, but FC and INS were also mentioned, and it was often sold with TNG toys rather than with the NEM line. Also the 1701-E was the first ship to carry the "Starship Legends" name on its box, in part because of the outcry that referring to the 1701-A as a "TOS ship" generated among many fans, who insisted that it wasn't a TOS ship. Likewise, the same thing has happened with the 1701-E being branded a TNG toy, fans immediately complain that it's not from TNG, and thus not a TNG toy. I could see DST branding it a TNG movie toy, but then they'd need a full TNG movie line of figures rather than random 1701 lines of said figures. Of course, I wouldn't be opposed to that line existing. BBTS dropped "Nemesis" from the ship's description, although it's still in the newly created "Nemesis" section of their site. If the new Enterprise-E utilizes the "unified" packaging from the HD and MU 1701, as well as the 1701-D and AGT-D, then it really will be a "Nemesis" ship in the sense that it's the version of the ship from Nemesis, and not much more. The box won't have a giant "Nemesis" logo on it anymore than the previous ship did, although the information on the side/back of the box might reference NEM before FC and INS.

One final reason that this might not be sold as a TNG toy is that false/incorrect/misleading advertising is illegal, and DST's lawyers could have advised them that referring to the Enterprise-E as a TNG toy could be considered some form of deceptive-advertising opening them up to a lawsuit. Likewise, Paramount also may have told them not to refer to it as a TNG ship for similar reasons.

Of course, if DST really wanted to create a TNG Enterprise-E, they could always see if Paramount would approve of a Galaxy-class Enterprise-E using the Enterprise-D mold. After Generations was filmed, the model was crated up, but before ILM sent it back to Paramount, they repainted the ship's registry so that it read "U.S.S. ENTERPRISE" in the same font used on the "real" Enterprise-E, and "NCC-1701-E" in the same font that previously read "NCC-1701-D." The belief was that the 1701-E might be a galaxy-class starship, and they wanted to save whoever was doing the FX on the next Trek film (they hadn't gotten the rights to FC yet--it wasn't officially in production at this time,) the time needed to repaint and change the ship's registry. We already have a "Starship Legends" line, so perhaps DST could add a "Starship Myths" line into the mix, which would consist of designs that never actually made it in screen. The "Phase II 1701," could be another concept design used in such a line. Again, it's just a thought.

NOTE: I split this reply to see if it was easier to read.

[Stormfury_Echo]

Honestly, I remember Eaves stating that the Nemesis Enterprise E is the definitive variant of the ship, that that is the way she was always intended to look. Frankly, I don't think it would be a stretch for DST to release the ship in the FC paint scheme, maybe with movie specific sound effects and such. I mean, it would be a simple repaint with all the same circuitry, only with different phrases, and maybe some different sound effects. Again, I don't think that would be out of the question.
As far as the upcoming release is concerned, I would be fine with them keeping on the same sound effects that we're familiar with. I hated the actual phaser sound that they used for Nemesis, and was so happy that DST used one from FC. And it's just awesome that they used Picards call to battle stations from Nemesis. That scene always sends shivers up my spine.

[Alex]

Honestly, I remember Eaves stating that the Nemesis Enterprise E is the definitive variant of the ship, that that is the way she was always intended to look.

Thank you, Stormfury_Echo; I was beginning to think that my memory was playing tricks on me. I could have sworn that I too remembered Eaves stating that the Nemesis Enterprise-E was the Enterprise-E that he always intended to create. Also, if you remember where Eaves made this statement, please let me know, because it's probably the same place that I got the information from, and would like to try and find it again.

Frankly, I don't think it would be a stretch for DST to release the ship in the FC paint scheme, maybe with movie specific sound effects and such. I mean, it would be a simple repaint with all the same circuitry, only with different phrases, and maybe some different sound effects. Again, I don't think that would be out of the question.

I actually think that this is an excellent idea...and now we're kind of thinking like DST employees. A simple paint variant would be just that--simple for DST to do, and could justify production numbers/an additional run of Enterprise-E's at a later date. Chuck has stated in the past that variants are often used for DST to justify an additional run of a popular item that they've sold out of but couldn't otherwise justify numbers for.

The only concern I have about this idea is the fact that DST is a stickler for detail, and I know that they'd generally rather tool a new mold for the top and bottom of the ship, recycling only the NEM nacelles and bridge dome/button if need be, than simply change the coat of paint on the current mold. What's more, there are plenty of fans here who would be quick to point out that DST was releasing the "wrong" ship if they used the NEM mold with a FC paint scheme. What would effectively quash these problems would be if Paramount had Jonathan Frakes go back and do a "Director's Cut" of FC. Such a Director's Cut would likely replace the previous exterior shots of the Enterprise-E with updated shots (think TOS-Remastered,) of the Enterprise-E, which would give John Eaves the chance to either stick the NEM version of the Enterprise-E into FC, or to "repaint" the NEM version of the Enterprise-E in the FC color scheme, effectively making such a DST toy variant "accurate," and "acceptable" to the few fans who would otherwise tear it apart, effectively eliminating the aforementioned concern/concerns that I've noted.

Of course, I could be wrong and the NEM Enterprise-E with an FC paint scheme could do remarkably well. Remember, DST's MU 1701 from TOS was based off of the Polar Lights design which added the logo of the Terran Empire to the ship, and subsequently lead to fans here suggesting that Paramount should go back to the MU 1701 in TOS-Remastered and retroactively apply the Terran Empire logo to the ship as seen on screen as well. The general argument was the "In A Mirror, Darkly" set precedent of the Terran Empire's logo being painted onto the ship, and that TOS-R should have followed the aforementioned precedent, which Polar Lights and DST ultimately followed. I happen to agree with this assessment by the way.

As far as the upcoming release is concerned, I would be fine with them keeping on the same sound effects that we're familiar with. I hated the actual phaser sound that they used for Nemesis, and was so happy that DST used one from FC. And it's just awesome that they used Picards call to battle stations from Nemesis. That scene always sends shivers up my spine.

The one thing that I admittedly hope DST DOESN'T mess around with are the sound effects on the Enterprise-E. If I remember correctly, the sound effects that were used are purposely vague so that the current "Nemesis" Enterprise-E can theoretically be associated with any of the TNG films, even though the ship was announced and tooled as a "Nemesis" toy, and released under the "Starship Legends" banner. As you noted Stormfury_Echo, Picard's call to battle stations is from NEM, while the Phaser effect is from FC. More importantly, the only lines of dialogue that we hear are "All hands, battle stations," "Engage," "Ready phasers and quantum torpedoes," and "Fire all weapons," all of which could be applied to any of the TNG-era films that the Enterprise-E was featured in.

Now keep in mind, I wouldn't mind if DST added more sound effects to the new ship, so long as they retained all of the FX from the previous version of the Enterprise-E, and all of the new sounds were also purposely kept vague. Similarly, I wouldn't mind if DST didn't change the sound chip at all and simply kept the one that we've had from day one. I've always felt that the current Enterprise-E's strong point has been its excellent sound chip, and I think changing it could do more harm than good. This is a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it;" there's plenty on the current Enterprise-E that justifies giving DST's toy a "space-lift," but the sound FX are admittedly not one of those things. The lack of LEDs, the paint scheme, and the battery cover are all things that could use improvement, and I'd rather that DST focus on those things rather than on the sound FX which are great already. Likewise, if DST changes the ship's lighting to LEDs and still feels the need to further tweak the electronics, I'd rather that they add an "always on" switch like the one on the Enterprise-D, rather than add additional sound FX. Again, that's just my $0.02 cents though.

[Kyp Durron]

Quick question: are the Enterprise D and E models in scale with each other?

[Commodore Kor'Tar]

^^ Yes, according to Thomas E. Johnson the Enterprise - D and E are in scale with each other.

[Kyp Durron]

Damn!!

I never really liked the D, but if they're in scale with each other, I'm going to be sorely tempted to get one to go with the E just for completion sake. Does anyone know if the Enterprise B is in the same scale with the D and E? If so, I'll probably get it too.

[Zodou]

^^^

No, they're not to scale. The Ent-B is based on the AMT model which is roughly 1/1000 scale; where as the Ent-D and E are at 1/1400 scale.

[Stormfury_Echo]

Yeah, I'm not sure if a 1/1400 Excelsior exists. I will say, though, that the DST Enterprise E is marginally smaller than the AMT/Ertl kit, so the the DST version is probably closer to 1/1500 scale. It's probably safe to assume that the D is probably around the same scale. Either way, this is very exciting. I have been desiring a detailed Enterprise E toy/replica since I was just a kid. I remember the Insurrection Enterprise E debacle. I was so sorely disappointed with what I wound up with. I will admit, though, that the little captains yacht was pretty cool, but that is hardly a redeeming quality. The AA announced that they were going to be releasing theirs, and after seeing the prototype, I was a lovesick puppy. And to think, without DST, it never would have come about. For that, I will always be eternally grateful to them, regardless of the less than detailed paint scheme. I am so stoked about this release though. My wife's already about to pull her hair out.

[LT CMDR DATA]

awsome!! rick has posted on new force he will post pre orders for the new Enterprise E!! can't wait.

[The_Donster]

AFX also posted on Facebook that they have these for preorder, although Rick will be who I preorder from again

[Stormfury_Echo]

She's comin' 'round the mountain, gentlemen. I am very excited for this product. Who knows, I may buy two.