89 replies to this topic

[pickard]

Why re-linquish it if they don't have to? I mean no one else is clamoring to get it, and it probably doesn't cost them anything if they don't use it.

How do we know either of these two things?

[bgiles73]

Why re-linquish it if they don't have to? I mean no one else is clamoring to get it, and it probably doesn't cost them anything if they don't use it... the main thing is that AA/DST does have a lot of capital investment into the line in the form of molds. So I think they really do want to find ways to recoup that investment, but if stores just won't buy the line what are they to do?

What are they to do? What we have all been telling them all along, go the mattycollector route. Let Hasbro have a line of 3 3/4" retail and let DST do with Star Trek, what they do for Marvel Select. Then I think we would all be happy!

[Gothneo]

How do we know either of these two things?

We don't know anything for certain. We're just having a discussion here. I'm making some assumptions, one of which seems obvious. No one is clamoring for the license. I say that because if they were, and DST had it tied up, I get the feeling DST would cash out if it made sense. We do know that the license DST has is pretty specific (at least I think we know this)... I say this because the fact that a company like Dragon can make 12" scale action figures means that other companies can make action figures, which means (I think) if another company wanted to make 3 3/4 I think they could. From a business perspective, if you have something that is costing you money even if you do nothing with it, then your going to try and get product out, even if it breaks even, because that license is costing money. The fact that DST isn't doing that, suggests that they probably pay a royalty per unit they make/sell

What are they to do? What we have all been telling them all along, go the mattycollector route. Let Hasbro have a line of 3 3/4" retail and let DST do with Star Trek, what they do for Marvel Select. Then I think we would all be happy!

I don't see any reason why Hasbro can't do a 3 3/4 line if they want to (see above). I think they don't want to. Matty is a love / hate thing with most collectors. It started out pretty slow for MOTU and as such almost died a early quite death before it got going. Then the line took off and the site has suffered crashes and product shortages galore!

The real question is where are the fans that will buy Star Trek Product? With the exception of the original playmates line, Star Trek action figures, have been largely unsuccessful in the market place, and now that there is no media tie-in I don't see the heady playmate days ever returning. So we have to come to grips that Star Trek Action figure collecting is a niche market.

[TheHSBR]

From my experiences from reading toyfare for quite a while, there is usually an "action figure license" that covers all scales. The 12" figures are more like dolls and would not be covered under that. Now if Dragon Toys did a 12" hard plastic line that would probably be under the action figure umbrella. Now there could be a DC Direct/Mattel like deal where things have to be agreed upon by each company. Im still not sure how that even works but it seems like everyone is happy.

I love the stuff DST does with the ships and even though I dont collect the tech, I still admire it from afar but the intervals at which stuff is relased is way too long for my tastes. Id love to see more regular stuff maybe twice a year instead of what it seems like the once a year we get now.

[BadBunnyMike]

The intervals at which stuff is relased is way too long for my tastes. Id love to see more regular stuff maybe twice a year instead of what it seems like the once a year we get now.

Yeah...I agree with that, I mean earlier this year DST said they wanted to get out the BoP AND the Excelsior/Ent B Variant out this year...that isn't gonna happen unless we see one of them like this month.... and the other around X-mas.

[Jay K]

It's a shame that anything from TNG onwards is severely on the back foot in an action-figure sense, but I only bemoan that out of respect for most of you here (I don't collect figures).

I am encouraged to see them mention the Defiant again. I really don't care how big any prospective model of it would be, just as long as the lights are as nice as they are on the Enterprise-D, and the deflector dish isn't red! The guy who asked the question about it, I really liked his idea of making a small, plastic, non-lit version to be thrown in with a big one, as I'd love to have one in scale with my E and D.
My ideal size for the Defiant would be almost the same dimensions as the NX-01. The Defiant was a (tough!) little ship, so I'd be fine with them translating that into a nice, compact model in that sense. Just please, make it!

I'll take anything I can get though when it comes to ships and props though.

[Gothneo]

For all we know DST is running their Trek line into the ground before their license expires before 2012...

That seemed like a silly comment to me, but then I found this quote fron DSTChuck on AFI...

DSTChuck: I come in and immediately begin plotting how many things we can do at DST that will truly upset as many customers as I can.

http://www.actionfig...Interview.shtml

So it must be true! not only that, but this is proof that DST has been trying to ruin the Star Trek license for years now as that interview was prior to the new movie!

[knightone]

I think as things stand with the Star Trek franchise at the moment, with all the great things that have happened to it with the release of this fresh take on Trek by JJ Abrams, love it or hate it, it's breathed new life into a stagnating franchise. Love them or hate them, Hasbro would do the same.

Has great things happened with the Abrams Trek? I haven't seen it. It seemed more like the standard summer blockbuster that was hot for the first couple of weeks, but was over once the theatrical run ended. It didn't bring any new fans into the fold as I haven't seen one new person on any of the forums I hang out at coming on because of the new movie. The toy line tanked and hasn't ignited any new interest in the other Treks or their respective merchandise. I haven't seen any excitement over Trek go past the first week or two of the movie's release. It just hasn't happened. The only reason there was any excitement at all is because it was an exciting big budget movie. But it wasn't the kind of thing that would create any long-term or hardcore fans for the franchise. It was just a fun summer movie that anyone could get into and have a good time, but it wasn't something that stuck in people's heads or resonated in their psyches. It wasn't something that ignited their imaginations or got them to think about issues in a deeper way.

DST isn't deliberately trying to run the license into the ground. The fact is Trek is pretty much dead in the mainstream right now. The only people that are still interested in Trek and Trek merchandise is the very deepest core of the fan base because that is all that is left. We've shed a lot of fans over the past decade and we haven't been able to bring in any new fans to replace them. It's just not happening. Until then, it doesn't matter who has the license, the same thing will happen and it will happen sooner rather than later. The Playmates movie line tanked faster than you could blink and even news that they wanted to pursue a TOS line wasn't enough to save it. The interest simply is not there, so it doesn't matter who has the license. If stuff doesn't sell, more stuff won't get made.

It doesn't get us anywhere for Hasbro to get the license, release one wave, then cancel the line. And I can pretty much guarantee in the current state the franchise is in, that is exactly what would happen. It would just put us right back where we are, with another incomplete line. And having to start over on a new collection that probably wouldn't last anyway is not an avenue I would want to pursue. If the license changed hands and the format changed again, I would think it is time to stop collecting altogether as it would be too much time, money, and trouble to have to start all over again. It would have to be a fantastic line to get me to even consider it and, even though Hasbro's products are nice, they aren't spectacular.

[bgiles73]

I'm all for a Hasbro Star Trek line. Thats where the line should have went in 2009! Seriously though, Paramount should have had the sequel ready to roll within 6 months of the 2009 movie. This three year layover is doing nothing to keep the momentum going! I do sense alot of similarities in the Q&As with DST and interviews with Rick Berman. I honestly believe the DST action figures are uninspired. I can almost say the same for the Playmates line. Build-a-figure waves would have been so much better than Build-a-bridge. Just do a damn good playset next time Playmates! If there is a next time. If Hasbro picked up the line and completed crews and added aliens I could see myself putting all my old DST and Playmates stuff up for sale, because Hasbro product would be more consistent with the type of figures I collect anyway. I've always been more of a fan of 3 3/4" figures. The only exceptions are Masters of the Universe and Dr Who! Outside of that 6-7" figures just really aren't for me, but for those that like that scale, I hope DST will at least keep a few of these coming out for you all!

[Gothneo]

Dude, lets calm down man, It could be true after all!

No way man! Once I'm spun up it's "Go Time"!!
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Look, Just in case you can't tell, I'm mess'in w/ya.

If we can't agree on a few simple basics, then you probably shouldn't respond to anything I write.

1. All companies are in business to make money. This includes DST, CBS, Hasbro etc.

2. Assuming 2 is true, then no company would knowingly sabotage themselves from achieving profit and success.

See, anytime someone makes the argument that company X is trying to run product Y into the ground means that neither of the above rules are true. It means the company has some other motivation... I don't know what the motivation would be to spend / loose money while calling yourself a business. I could fantasize that they are really a money laundering front for drug dealers, but if so, they sure seem to have gone to allot of extra trouble. It would seem there would be an easier way!

It seems, predicated on the rules I've laid out, that truth is simpler.

If we assume that DST knows its target market, knows its price point, and has been manufacturing the best possible product they can for those variables, then maybe the truth is that the Target market is simply too small to make a profit. In other-words, the market doesn't really exist. We could go down the path that there is a huge target market for Star Trek action figures, and DST has completely miss-managed that market. The scale, the quality, the quantity, marketing strategy, price point etc.

The later argument is the one that people are basically making when they say give the license to some other company. But you know what? another company did have a go at it, and it didn't really "go" anywhere now did it? The executives at Playmates seemed to look at the idea of offing a 3 3/4 scale line of the "classic" shows, but they seem to have basically come to the conclusion, that there wasn't a market for that product at this time.

2012 will be here before long. The license will go up for renewal at the same time a new movie is coming out, and I bet Paramount & CBS will try to strike a deal for a more widespread line and license. So we'll know soon enough, but until then, I just think the the market simply doesn't exists. The Worf / Gowron was a great 2 pack, and there was every indication that the Kruge / Maltz 2 pack would be even more spectacular, and yet, DST couldn't garner enough retailer orders to make it!

[knightone]

Well said, Gothneo,

Keep in mind that there aren't as many Trek fans still in the fold as there use to be. On top of that, most Trek fans probably aren't toy collectors and wouldn't be interested in buying even Trek toys.

The MOTU classics line has been used, including by myself, as a good guide to a new business plan. However, after some thought, I don't think that's true. MOTU started out as a toy line (sure there was the cartoon, but that was really just a vehicle to sell toys). So the great majority of MOTU fans still around are more likely to be toy collectors/fans as well. That's not going to be true of any remaining Trek fans.

So take the small number of fans that are still interested in enough to have stuck around and couple that with the fact that only a small fraction of those are toy collectors as well, and the numbers probably aren't there to support a toy line past a very small scale.

I think the reason the Starship Legends and Trek Tek lines have done better is because they can be considered "models" and "replicas", things that a fan who doesn't collect toys would be more willing to look at and purchase. Most adults aren't willing to buy figures as they probably view it as something for kids only. But a model ship or a prop replica is something they wouldn't be embarrassed to have their friends and peers see, or at least less so than a bunch of action figures.

[Thomas E. Johnson]

My figures are all proudly on display, without shame.

[TheHSBR]

Well I have to disagree with two things:
1. I think Trek is still pretty popular. I will echo 1701's comment about the amount of Trek on TV in the UK is just as much in the US. I can turn on the tube and usually stumble on one of the series mostly NextGen. The new movie may not have brought new fans into the hardcore mould, but what it did do is make Trek more acceptable to the mainstream. So instead of 90% of the people giggling when I say Im a Trek fan maybe only 50% do (LOL).

2. I dont think DST is trying to kill the line but its definately not doing it any favors by letting it sit. Theres also something to be said for DST being a small company who cant really maximize the license. Every release they make has to be spot on because even one mistake can kill the company. Hasbro on the other hand can put out tons of junk and probably never even bat an eye if it all gets clearanced. If youve looked at some of the 1 sec of screen time characters they choose for Star Wars that sit on the shelves you know what I mean. I think Hasbro or any other bigger toy maker can also strike more favorable deals with the good factory owners in China. Even though MOTU is a smaller run, Im sure they get a better deal because they are bringing the bigger fish along with in DC and WWE. DST doesnt have that luxury as we have been told mutiple times in Q&As with the lack of availbility in factory space/rates. Im pretty sure the big dogs dont have to contend with that.

[knightone]

Popular for casual viewing is different from having a large group clamoring for merchandise like they did in the early to mid-90's. That group began to fall sharply by the late 1990's and has only continued to decline. For that matter, popular for casual viewing every so often is even different from having a dedicated viewer base to sustain a new series, which I don't think there is at this point in time.

[bgiles73]

The biggest problem for the decline in viewers was the fact that the show was pulled from channels everyone could catch and moved to UPN. UPN moved the show to timeslots that nobody with any kind of social life would be able to watch. Remember DVRs weren't so common at the time. If they broadcast a Star Trek show on a CBS affiliate at a decent time I'm more than sure Star Trek would enjoy a healthy viewership and a reinvigorated fanbase.

[TheHSBR]

Well the first step is getting people to watch. Its amazing that when I watch something like Jurassic Park I want to go on ebay and look up some stuff I never got when I was collecting 15 years ago. You also might expose new people who are too lazy to flip the station. If you are in more peoples consciousness, you have a better opportunity to turn that into advertising dollars. Five years ago I couldnt even find when Trek was on let alone run into it by accident at least a few times a week

[Gothneo]

Hasbro on the other hand can put out tons of junk and probably never even bat an eye if it all gets clearanced.

I think fans of the Indiana Jones license would disagree. Hasbro, has as much to risk as DST. There is a magnitude of scale here... Hasbro is bigger, and employes more people, therefore it must produce and sell more product. A huge miss for Hasbro, such as the Indiana Jones license has big ramifications.

If youve looked at some of the 1 sec of screen time characters they choose for Star Wars that sit on the shelves you know what I mean.

Star Wars is the "gold" standard when it comes to action figures, but even it's fans get tired of the endless re-paints and kit-bashes that are thrown out there. But that aside, again, I think your falling into the trap that there really is a huge market for the product and that DST just isn't hitting the variables with respect to that market. I like the role play stuff they do. and they seem to do well with it because they have really expanded the role play line. at first all they would do is re-issue phasers, but finally they did the communicator and tri-corder, and based on that success we've gotten more. so there seems to be a market for role play.

One more thing people need to be aware of. Things are changing quickly with regards to labor in China. I was in China for several weeks last month, and everyday there were new stories about labor strikes and wage hikes going about on mainland China. Remember one of the main variables to sell anything, is that you have to know the price point your customer will pay. With rising wages in China, the cost to manufacture product will rise. We've been seeing it allot, and it's not the end. Expect prices to rise further. Every figure from Matty for MOTCU cost close to $30 by the time your done with shipping and handling and a large part of that is the labor to manufacture them. I'm sure quite a few people here would pay that kind of money, but is it enough? Matty hasn't released production run numbers, but the assumption is the numbers are in 10k+ range, which seems like allot, but for mattel or hasbro a run is typically 100k+. So the question seems to be... are there 10k+ fans that will gobble up every start trek release if a company went the Matty route? DST, it seems, can't find 1701 in most cases! Playmates doesn't seem to think so either.

Remember, before AA picked up the license several years back... no one wanted it. Not to make toys anyway. And that was back when Enterprise was still on the air. I have to ask whats changed so dramatically in the positive direction that these other companies might want the license? Sure they all want a pieces of a new movie, and since the CBS / Paramount split, the license is a bit fractured so now the TV shows & movie licenses are different deals so companies went after the license for the new movie, and they probably will again for the 2012 movie, but it doesn't mean there is a market for the CBS portion of the license.