1901 replies to this topic

[Alex]

Daysleeper, it's not that I didn't enjoy the scene either, but as you said, it was purely gratuitious plotwise, and Abrams actually apologized at one point for having a gratuitious eye candy scene for the sake of having a gratuitious eye candy scene. My "concern" with Fuller's comment is that it sounds like he wants to do more gratuitious scenes for the sake of gratuitious scenes, and that's not necessarily something I want. An occasional scene here or there might be okay, and showing a severely wounded crewmember being rushed to sickbay would be an acceptable use of this new–found freedom, but I don't need to see any crewmembers who are stated to be in a relationship going all Game of Thrones with sex scenes just because they now can, nor do I need to see the crew being violently dismembered by some villanous species just because it's an option. I just hope that the crew uses this added creative freedom wisely and doesn't pull something like ENT giving us an entire episode where Trip seemed to misplace his uniform.

[VaadwaurRevenge]

Maybe it will be graphic in a starship troopers meet star trek sorta way. With more realistic scenes of danger and violence in space. Remember that vastness is not our friend. I remember specifically when the hull of the Kelvin was torn open and those crew members sucked out very memorable scene.

[Whirlygig]

You know, the interesting thing about Trek is that the MO was generally that Starfleet tech was so advanced that if the problem of a species was rooted in science with a scientific solution, they could solve it in the course of an episode with technobabble -- and that wasn't a bad thing, that was probably by design.  It generates more plots where the actual problem is a diplomatic one, and once you do that, you start exploring the peaceful and humane solutions to problems that define the progressivism of Trek.

 

Your planet is on the eve of destruction by global warming?  No problem, Geordi will push a few buttons and shoot phasers down in just the right spot and put you back into equilibrium.  And now the federation just made a new friend.

 

Your planet is warring with neighboring planets?  Sit down and let Picard talk you through your problems...in fact it will 9 out of 10 times turn out to be scientifically rooted and Dr. Crusher will have a genetic solution for you by the end of the hour but in the meantime we can learn about getting along together despite our differences.

 

The only time that Trek runs into serious "battle" scenarios is when it encounters alien individuals or species that meet one of the following:

- Can't be reasoned with (Borg, Dominion....often Klingons, sometimes Romulans, etc)

- Technologically superior with drastically different politics (Borg!)

- God-like powers (this is probably more like the combination of the two above) and no vested interest in our plane of existence

 

But if you paint a universe where they are running into some combination of the above too frequently, you start to make it unlikely that Starfleet or Earth would have been able to reach/maintain the point of advancement (both technologically and humanistically) which has long defined this entire franchise and dynamic.

 

And you also stop having as many plot opportunities to work out our problems as humanely as possible and examine contemporary issues through thinly veiled alien lenses.

 

Obviously, DS9 kind of went there...and you'll notice it tends to draw its own type of fans for that reason.  But, it did a decent job of keeping with the status quo in spite of its experiments.  Anyone trying to make the universe of this show one of conflict will hopefully understand all of this and hope to do it at least as well as DS9 did.

 

Hmmm....

[1701D]

ok so with the comments Fuller has made recently I'm beginning to think this is set in both the Prime and Kelvin timelines...

How Its set in both is a matter for the writers to figure out but his comments on characters from Star Trek's past returning suggests that this isn't going to simply be something set exclusively in the Kelvin timeline.

As for gratuity in Star Trek... Yeah I'm not sure where you're seeing his comments as being anything other than against mindless gratuity.

[Jay K]

Urgh, I hope they leave the Kelvin timeline alone in the new show.

 

Speaking of which, people seem to think that Netflix might be the UK home of the new show due to the fact that they've just unlocked every single episode of Star Trek ever, including the newly remastered animated series. I was delighted when I saw them all yesterday.

[djc242]

Urgh, I hope they leave the Kelvin timeline alone in the new show.

 

Speaking of which, people seem to think that Netflix might be the UK home of the new show due to the fact that they've just unlocked every single episode of Star Trek ever, including the newly remastered animated series. I was delighted when I saw them all yesterday.

 

Enjoy!  My sympathies for the lack of sleep that awaits you as you binge.

[Jay K]

Right as Game of Thrones ended as well!

[Jay K]

Random little thing, but Ben Robinson tweeted these earlier tonight:
 

"And I can't tell you what I know about the new Trek show but ... good God! I was slack jawed. Oh Boy! @BryanFuller has excelled himself."

https://twitter.com/...137298281029633

 

 

". @BryanFuller might forgive me if I say SHIPS!"

https://twitter.com/...138038273740801

[Alex]

I honestly don't think that the new show will have anything to do with the Kelvin Timeline, and I'm not sure why people seem to think that it might. Everything we've seen from credible sources seems to suggest that it's set at some time in the Prime Universe, likely post–Nemesis. Whether that's the 24th or 25th century is anyone's guess, but the comment about cameos from past shows seems to pretty much be about a close to outright saying "this is after Nemesis" as can be done under an NDA/NCA. With the pre–TNG/post–TUC rumor effectively debunked, it's pretty much the only logical setting left too.

 

As for my concerns regarding "gratuity," they come from this comment from Bryan Fuller, which was taken from MovieFone but posted elsewhere as well. Bold is the question from the interviewer, bold italic emphasis is mine.

 

Is the streaming aspect of it -- is that going to affect it at all? Are you going to drop them all at once? Do you even know yet?

No, it's going to be weekly. And what it does allow us is, we are not subject to broadcast standards and practices. So we can have profanity if we choose -- not that I want to see a "Star Trek" with lots of profanity. But we can certainly be more graphic than you would on broadcast network television.

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! Star Trek isn't Game of Thrones; we don't need it to be more graphic, crewmembers don't need to be maimed and dismembered, and we don't need to watch them screwing each others brains out before they put them back in. *Headdesk* Trek shouldn't be "darker and grittier," and while I don't mind an occasionally graphic scene suitable for cable that uptight network censors might kvetch about, I do mind Trek turning into something it isn't. Trek doesn't need to be "darker and grittier" which is what "more graphic" always turns out to be code for, and it doesn't need to be "more graphic;" that was the entire problem with ENT's porn decontamination room, it was "more graphic" because it could be, not because it served a purpose most of the time it was used. I actually wouldn't mind a slightly more realistic level of profanity. Networks go nuts if you utter "shit" or "damn" because they're forced to abide by draconian standards for what constitutes "morality" and don't like getting fined, but a few more fleeting explatives wouldn't bother me as long as there was a reason for them, if only because Trek had them before and network censors have just gotten more sensative over the years, so it's really just maintaining the status quo. Besides, if they get "more graphic," that'll really kill any chance of this ever being available on traditional TV outlets, which isn't good for a property like Trek. Ever try watching The Sopranos on A&E when they syndicated it? It was nearly impossible to stomach between what they cut for time and what they took out like a butcher with a meat clever in terms of controversial content, and it ruined what made the show enjoyable. Trek doesn't need to be "graphic" to be enjoyable; it's enjoyable specifically because it's not graphic, but requires a bit of brainpower and tends to be optimistic.

[Destructor!!!]

I dunno, I think it might be a positive move. It has the potential to be, anyway.

Trek with deeper character drama could be as good as DS9. It sounds like this series will involve a fleet, or action in different locations, on different ships. The story will probably follow parallel threads that intermingle. A little more freedom might be a good thing to allow such a plot structure to breathe.

 

The comedy series "Community" did their sixth season on Yahoo! Screen. They restrained themselves from breaking character and introducing prolific swearing, then they took the piss out of this decision by dropping casual F-bombs in one episode. It was hilarious. But more importantly, the character of the show remained intact - it was just a great meta joke, as Community is so wont to do.

 

I'll reserve judgement of the new Star Trek until we get more of a flavour.

 

If I wasn't so pessimistic overall about Star Trek, I'd actually start avoiding spoilers right now. I've already heard more about Beyond than I really wanted to - but it's not a film I expected to give a toss about. That second trailer really turned me around - this could actually resemble Star Trek a little bit. I certainly spotted some science in that fiction during the trailers.

 

So anyway, I'm on the fence here:

1. I want to know more.

2. I don't expect it to be good.

3. If it turns out to be good, I don't want to have been spoiled already

4. If I refrain from reading any more news stories about it, and it ends up sucking, I'll be extra-pissed because I didn't see it coming.

[Gothneo]

I tend to look at the creative team behind these projects, and in general, I've liked much of what Fuller has written and produced.

 

Not only does he have solid Trek credentials, but I really enjoyed both dead like me and pushing daisies.

 

I do agree that don't need rated X or even Rated R Trek. We have the shows like BSG that did that fine.

 

I'm going to remain optimistic about this project... and CBS might just get my money. It all depends on the pilot... which, as I undestand it they are going to broadcast to try and hook people... so it can't be too over the top, and it needs to set the tone.

[Alex]

I dunno, I think it might be a positive move. It has the potential to be, anyway.

Trek with deeper character drama could be as good as DS9. It sounds like this series will involve a fleet, or action in different locations, on different ships. The story will probably follow parallel threads that intermingle. A little more freedom might be a good thing to allow such a plot structure to breathe.

 

If I wasn't so pessimistic overall about Star Trek, I'd actually start avoiding spoilers right now. I've already heard more about Beyond than I really wanted to - but it's not a film I expected to give a toss about. That second trailer really turned me around - this could actually resemble Star Trek a little bit. I certainly spotted some science in that fiction during the trailers.

 

So anyway, I'm on the fence here:

1. I want to know more.

2. I don't expect it to be good.

3. If it turns out to be good, I don't want to have been spoiled already

4. If I refrain from reading any more news stories about it, and it ends up sucking, I'll be extra-pissed because I didn't see it coming.

Destructor, I'm honestly not worried about this series having any issues with character drama given whose writing it, and given that it seems like it's blatantly a Prime Universe series. Heck, the basic 13–episode format smacks of something where character drama might be too overdone rather than too underdone if there's anything to be concerned about in that regard. While that's admittedly only one comment, it's the kind of thing that sends alarm bells off in my head, because similar comments in the past have been major red flags. STID was promoted with that obnoxious "darker and grittier" mentality, and that's exactly what we got. ENT was promoted as being "prequely," and that felt like a massive misstep, especially with the whole "make the characters more like today's humans" concept that was revealed before the show even started. As soon as I see someone saying they think Trek should be more graphic, it makes me at least a little cautious. If it's occasoinally pushing the boundries by doing something analogous to if DS9 had actually shown Nog's blown off leg and really serves a purpose, I can handle it. If it doesn't turn relationships between various characters into softcore porn, (nothing wrong with that of course, it's just not Trek–like though,) I'm fine with occasionally doing things that network censors would get their balls in a wad over that the rest of us would shrug at. I just don't want Trek to turn into "Blood and Guts in Space with Sex," because that's never what Trek has been about, or what it should be about. If this means you can have "shit," "hell," and "damn" thrown around when something explodes without a network censor blowing a gasket though, that's fine, because Trek has always done that and networks have just gotten more stringent about swearing thanks to legal rulings against them that don't apply to other media outlets. The comment might be nothing, but it was enough to get my attention in a not so positive way.

 

Likewise, I completely understand you being pessimistic about this series after the last two films, but I encourage you to reconsider that stance. This isn't Abrams, it isn't people trying to turn Star Trek into Star Wars, it's not a bunch of people who wouldn't know the Prime Directive from the Kobyashi Maru handling the writing; it's basically everything we could have asked for from a production crew as far as Trek goes. Yes, Kurtzman is still involved as an EP, but it's obvious that he's delegating things to people who "get" Trek, or at the very least, surrounding himself with them in an attempt to not turn this into a mindless action–fest, and I thank him for that. Mr. Lens Flares and Mr. Conspiracy Theories aren't involved; I'm mostly optimistic about this new show based on what we've seen so far, with only one or two red flags that might be nothing. As for Beyond, I've honestly felt better about it since the second trailer as well, (actually since Pegg publicly blasted the first one as being an inaccurate portrayal of the film,) and the fresh blood on the production crew seems like it might make an important difference. Justin Lin may be known for explosions, but he can also weave an actual story behind them, which gives me hope for a film I was previously quite skeptical of. Even if Beyond is a mess though, (and I'm increasingly doubtful that it will be,) this is an entirely different group of people handling the show, so I'm not willing to paint them with the same brush as the people who've been handling the Kelvin Timeline.

 

I tend to look at the creative team behind these projects, and in general, I've liked much of what Fuller has written and produced.

 

Not only does he have solid Trek credentials, but I really enjoyed both dead like me and pushing daisies.

 

I do agree that don't need rated X or even Rated R Trek. We have the shows like BSG that did that fine.

 

I'm going to remain optimistic about this project... and CBS might just get my money. It all depends on the pilot... which, as I undestand it they are going to broadcast to try and hook people... so it can't be too over the top, and it needs to set the tone.

Gothneo, I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. The creative team is solid, Fuller has a positive track record on Trek and on other shows, and there really aren't major signs of any impending disaster. One line isn't enough of a red flag to make me think this will "suck," even if it gives me a little concern; I'm just hoping that I'm blowing what was said a little out of proportion in an attempt to be extra cautious.

 

I completely agree that I don't need (or want) X or even R rated Trek; BSG04 was pretty much that, and I've described it as Battlestar: Voyager before, because it's basically all of the stuff Ronald D. Moore wanted to do in VOY that was too expensive with '90s CGI, and that basically caused him to leave the show instead of continuing with it once it became obvious that none of his ideas were going to be feasable at the time. Everything from the ship getting and staying damaged throughout the show, (which YoH ultimately dabbled in,) to the idea of the crew losing their Starfleet morals and being unable to easily reintegrate into Federation Life were concepts that Moore incorporated in some way into BSG04. (The crew interaction in particular was more in line with his idea for VOY.) While I liked BSG04 taking that shift in tone, I don't think it would fit Trek well at all, and Moore himself admitted he was able to get away with more in BSG specifically because it wasn't as optimistic as Trek, so I really don't want to see this new series be "Star Trek: Galactica" for lack of a better term, and judging by the production crew, it likely won't be.

 

You're correct about the pilot, that will be broadcast on CBS proper, so it can't do anything out of line with broadcast standards and practices, but that doesn't mean a thing about the other 12 or 11 episodes depending on whether or not the premeire is two parts. While the premiere could theoretically be "tame" followed by material that isn't, that would definitely be a gigantic mistake if people who were "hooked" wound up getting something completely different. I'm kind of hoping that international distribution might also help keep the show from going crazy since some countries likely will have it shown on more traditional outlets, which means it'll need to be suitable for such forms of distribution. Hopefully that'll prevent anything too crazy from getting green–lit.

[Destructor!!!]

Mr. Lens Flares and Mr. Conspiracy Theories

I love you for that. It provided quite a sensible chuckle.

I completely take your point. You're saying "I'm worried because it might be bad", and I'm saying "You don't have to worry, because it could be good" - which isn't really a disagreement.

The very fact that I'm having mixed feelings at all about new Trek (particularly a new JJverse film) is a positive development. Post-STID, I was convinced Star Trek of merit was lost forever, and had vowed not to support the next film. Now I'm considering breaking that vow.

So I wouldn't characterise my stance on the new series as necessarily pessimistic - my feelings are genuinely mixed. I'm still angry that the JJverse has been inflicted on the canon of Star Trek work, and I'm concerned that the tone and attitude of that production will colour the new show through simple Hollywood logic - but most indicators are pointing in the right direction... there just aren't enough indicators. So now we play the waiting game.

[Jay K]

Some amazing news for everywhere but the US and Canada...

Star Trek 2017 is coming to Netflix! Every country that has Netflix apart from the US and Canada, will also have every episode of Star Trek available on the service, by the end of this year (as is the case right now with the UK).

Regards Canada, Bell media have the rights. More information here:

http://www.startrek....tar-trek-series

 

Netflix have secured me for a good long while with this announcement. It being home to every episode of Star Trek means I'll always have something I want to watch, plus Better Call Saul as well.

[Whirlygig]

So...can I somehow subscribe to Netflix UK while actually residing within the US???

[Alteran195]

So...can I somehow subscribe to Netflix UK while actually residing within the US???

There was a chrome extension that let you change your region. Believe it was called Hola.

[robster]

I use Hola all the time when I'm in that dump of  a country I live in. There's NO WAY I wanna use the crap they have! It works great! I don't have Netflix but a friend in the US gave me his password and with Hola I use the US Netflix,which has a MUCH better selection of movies and stuff.

 

Great that it's coming to Netflix.

 

J-R!

[Jay K]

Bryan Fuller tweeted this picture to advertise the comic-con panel:
 

Hi-res: https://pbs.twimg.co...AAWjDE.jpg:orig

 

Obviously it's unfinished, but it seems so familiar. I can't find anything that matches it though, so perhaps this could be the new show's chair?

[BadBunnyMike]

Maybe they will have casting announcements at SDCC, they have to get cracking on that taking into account if they are supposed to release this in 6 months they have to have it cast and pretty much shot in the next few months

[Jay K]

Yeah I expect the same. I don't see any reason to keep the cast a secret, other than maybe a returning character (i.e. Worf), but I doubt that'll be the case.