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What if TOS were revived digitally?


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#21 Gothneo

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 11:09 AM

I had the same reaction to fisher vs. Cushing in rogue one. I recall thinking damn peter Cushing is looking good for his age... then catching my self and going oh wait hes dead.. nice effect... but then fisher looked off to me.

#22 MisterPL

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:32 PM

Part of Leia being off is possibly that the artists put a lot of effort into making the flesh look as real as possible. They add tons of detail so the skin has a translucence and you can see every pore and freckle and blemish. What they might be forgetting is that this actress spent time in a makeup chair concealing those blemishes. Therefore the CG versions tend to look hyper-real.



#23 Gothneo

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:47 AM

I think you hit on a bigger issue... most people aren't used to seeing uber, hyper detailed playback. I just have a plain Jane regular old flat screen TV... but when I watch something on a 4k TV... or something shot in more than 24 frame p/s... like Peter Jacksons the Hobbit... it looks off to me. But thats just because I've grown used to the poor quality.

 

I think maybe the CGI Leia suffered from some of that... as you say were used to seeing not just a makeup caked face, but also at a lower resolution and frame speed.



#24 Morgan

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 05:59 PM

One of the main things with Tarkin was that the CGI Tarkin was really designed, ahem, quite differently from the on-screen character as he appeared. In the film there was overexposure, deep shadows, the highlights were blown out due to harsh light, and he generally looked like an old film photograph (which it was).

 

The CGI Tarkin had a very equalized, HDR appearance with constantly shifting eye & facial muscles and a very even reception to light, which did not seem to be emanating from anywhere. There's also a weight-free fluidity of movement, as in a modern video game.

 

What's funny if you watch the real Cushing in the film is that he himself had far less facial muscle movement than the CGI version and moved in a faster manner. The CGI version, I hate to admit, looked like an alien of some sort from the prequels.

 



#25 Gothneo

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 08:10 PM

to be sure... no one is saying the tech doesn't need improvement... but in 10 years... Imagine what it will look like.



#26 Damon1984

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:54 PM

Might be there much sooner. This one came goddam quick;

 



#27 MisterPL

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 05:55 AM

Please. That looks nothing like Billy Dee Williams.



#28 Morgan

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 05:13 PM

See, that Han is actually not half bad.

 

If they had done that with Tarkin, just using original stills wrapped around a stand-in's head and animated it as mostly as photographic effect, he would have been far more realistic. (I dunno why they didn't go that route).

 

Instead, Tarkin looked like an alien with weird facial movement and rubbery skin.

 

(ILM has been bad for a long time actually).



#29 Gothneo

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 05:31 PM

I thought thats what they did with Tarkin? Otherwise why does Guy Henry have a credit for the actual acting? I think part of the issue might be that Guy's bone structure was different enough.



#30 Morgan

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 10:11 PM

With Tarkin they built a new CGI mask from scratch, instead of just taking a high-def film still image and wrapping it around a generic 3D head. There's still performance capture happening, but it's animating an all-new mask (which didn't really come all that close when it came to facial movement and lighting).

 

I'm suggesting something similar to how they make animals talk in commercials -- by using real animal footage as "plates" and just moving their facial features. It's a very 2D effect really, the kind of thing that can be done in stop-motion in Photoshop. This would be like animating a 2D Cushing plate, as if he was a South Park character.

 

The main thing that was off was that the real Cushing as Tarkin didn't really move his facial muscles all that much, while the CGI was literally moving too much, as if he was a giant water bed. It's as if ILM learned nothing from the prequels.



#31 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:39 AM

I guess I thought the process would be sort of both of what you describe, but I'm no expert on the tech.

 

I'm guessing they will take peoples feedback and try to improve the process... I'd also gander to say that there is a bit of artistry involved... in the same way that a makeup artist understands what looks natural, these new techs will need to have a blend of artist in them to be successful. 



#32 MisterPL

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:32 AM

Let's just agree that hiring Odo to play Tarkin in Revenge of the Sith was a mistake.

 

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#33 Damon1984

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:20 AM

*harrumph!*



#34 Gothneo

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:03 PM

Yeah... even Odo admitted he could never master the finer details and subtitles of the human face. 






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