162 replies to this topic

[BadBunnyMike]

Yeah, AA did seem to care a good bit about the line. That Ferengi Borg would have been cool too. Does anyone here still have the prototype pics of that or the Nemesis Romulan, for old times sake? FHC? Bad Bunny Mike? Anyone?

Most of those pictures are on the Reference Site under Unreleased.

[New Frontier]

The thing about Art Asylum was that i think they went about business in a different way, they cared about the art and the design rather than the money being made and always trying to push their figures where no action figure had gone before... no pun intended using new materials, taking risks that eventually did ruin them but hey, that's art. Where as DST are a bit cautious, they are a big company and when it comes to Star Trek i think perhaps too cautious with it.

I still think DST are right in not releasing a Voyager line, in fact i think where DST's strengths lie are in props and ship replicas so i'd actually like to see them focus all their energy on those items and perhaps a Voyager would be a possible ship. However they could have done more to make a Voyager line a bit more of a possibility but you know, when you have a company driven by profit over product - money will always rule the day. A great shame really because it's clear that during the release of TNG, DST were loosing interest in the contemporary Star Trek series.

[Gothneo]

Yep. Not focusing on the money worked so good for AA it essentially put them out of business.

Bigger toy companies have gone under for not focusing on the bottom line.

Kenner, & Palisades are two more that come to mind.

Palisades made a fantastic product. People (collectors that is) raved about it... but they still ended up in the discount bins and ultimately the deals they made with big box stores to try and get the distribution to the masses ended them... sort of like AA.

AA was as guilty as DST (maybe more) for not finishing a crew. AA never finished the basic bridge crew in Away Team suites... didn't finish the bridge crew or give us a "Sick Bay" phlox. Didn't finish the "Build a bridge". It was AA that didn't complete the TOS line (including the MM figures!)... But I know they wanted to but they seemed to be missing the money to just make them!

From the start I think DST's plan was to do a bridge crew from each of the modern series (TNG, DS9 & VOY) and then go from there, but the sales on TNG were lower than expected, and they have been struggling ever since to find the right formula. But I will give DST credit for the following:

1. Completing the Mirror Mirror TOS line
2. Completing the TNG S7 Bridge Crew
3. Completing the S6/7 DS9 Bridge Crew
4. Completing the TOS cast
5. Completing the TWOK Bridge Crew
6. Releasing more figures and characters than AA did.
7. Completing the TNG AGT Crew

DST finished up a number of projects that AA started and didn't.

AA Started about 6 different trek projects (ENT Away Team, ENT Duty Uniform, Borg, TOS, TOS MM, ENT BaB) and out of those six, every single one had product that was canceled or the project is considered in complete by collectors!

It seems to me that when DST says they will do a project (e.g. complete a TNG S7 Bridge crew) they typically follow through!


Thus, while I'd love to hear DST say they will give us a VOY bridge crew, I applaud them for not promising something they don't know if they can deliver.

[TheHSBR]

Did we travel around a sun at warp speed because I swear we have travelled back in time and Im reading an old argument again? Why does every thread have to turn into a sales thread for DST?

[Gothneo]

Sorry Boss. I'll try hard to stay on topic.. someplace in there I was saying something about Voyager figures.... I think!

[bgiles73]

I'm starting to think Mattel is the only company that gets it. Sorry about the bad french,but sometimes you just have to kiss the artists ass a little! Look at the Four Horsemen sculpting team. Those guys are gold. I doubt they are going anywhere. Mattel would be stupid to loose that team.They get credit for their work. Much of what they are doing now is what Digger and all the true founders of AA were after... recognition. I'd have to say that "creative differences" aren't the only reason Digger and the gang moved on to bigger and better things.

[Alex]

Did we travel around a sun at warp speed because I swear we have travelled back in time and Im reading an old argument again? Why does every thread have to turn into a sales thread for DST?

If we did, it must've been in one of DST's low-quality Klingon BoP prototypes from 2045, since that's probably about the same time we'll see them release a Klingon BoP toy. (Or should I say Klingon D-7 Battlecruiser to keep with the VOY theme. ) HSBR, the reason this is becoming a "sales thread" for DST, is because DST is currently operating under the fallacy that "Voyager toys won't sell," and therefore they're reaching the (false) conclusion that Voyager toys shouldn't be made. DST needs to be convinced that people will buy Voyager toys.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see a Voyager line, but I want to see it done right. We have Seven of Nine, and while that's a good start, it feels like they're doing what they did with TNG, where they put out a couple of figures and nobody bothered to touch them until the second line was released, because people were afraid of having an incomplete toy line. In truth, I think that with TOS Wave 5 now out, it's time for AA/DST to stop force-feeding us TOS and to focus a bit more on the 24th Century Trek that they've been ignoring. That means more TNG toys, more DS9 toys, and a Voyager wave 1 and wave 2 that would give us the entire "core" crew of the ship.

I think it'd actually be easier to do a Voyager line now than ever before. Barclay and Troi could be released in a "Bring Voyager Home" two-pack. Barclay would simply be a head-swap and Troi would be a simple reissue from the Nemesis line, which would appease both TNG and VOY fans. An Admiral Janeway figure (as seen in Nemesis) could be released as part of a TNG line, which would allow for a Janeway variant and more money for DST using a head-swap. I can think of multiple variants of the EMH, including a "First Contact" variant that'd be yet another head-swap. A DS9/VOY "Q" figure would be another easy head-swap, and it'd also be easy to release a Riker figure from his brief Cameo on VOY. Tuvok could be released in his Movie-era uniform from when he was on the U.S.S. Excelsior, which I'm sure would please AA/DST since it'd fit with their TOS mentality. If DST doesn't want to introduce a VOY line right off the bat, they could start with these variants--all of which could fit into lines they already have in progress, then they could simply do a head-swap and release these figures in their Voyager line which would cut production costs, allow for more than the bridge crew, and create bodies to be used for everyone else's head-swaps. Voyager should be the easiest line for DST to do, not the hardest, and one reason it'll sell is that there aren't nearly as many VOY figures as there are TNG figures.

My real worry though is that DST's Voyager could be just as rare as Playmates' Voyager if they decide to skimp on the ship, or to treat it the way that they've been treating the Enterprise-E. I expected to see the Enterprise-E retooled (lights in the blue portions of the nacelles, a "play cover" for the battery compartment, and LEDs instead of lightbulbs,) and reissued a second time by now, but AA/DST doesn't seem to be doing said reissue, which is shame since we're finally getting the Enterprise-D, and I'd gladly buy an upgraded Enterprise-E to go with the 1701-D.

In fact, if DST wants proof that a Voyager line will sell, they should put the ship out first. Considering how many fans can't get a hold of a Voyager toy, (the Playmates ship still commands a nice $200+ on eBay,) and considering the demand for one, it'd be smart for DST to release the ship first and then do a figure line. With Voyager being such a highly sought after ship, DST might be able to funnel some of the profit from a U.S.S. Voyager toy into the action figure line, which seems okay to me. I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for the ship if that's what it took to get the figures. Maybe they could throw in a Janeway variant with the ship to further persuade people to buy the Voyager figures if they're afraid that they might not sell. Again, this would be a matter of a simple head-swap.

I think DST needs to realize that there's more to Trek than TOS, and VOY is part of Trek, just like TOS, TNG, DS9, and the movies.

[knightone]

What evidence do you have that the belief Voyager won't sell is a fallacy?

Also, sales of ship don't seem to have a bearing on how well figures sell. DST's ships and Trek Tek lines are produced in higher numbers than most of their figures and are continually being replenished and reissued. So even if a USS Voyager sells well, it wouldn't necessarily translate into a sales for a Voyager figure line.

The Enterprise-E isn't a fair example. It was DST's first ship release and it was still a learning experience for them. Also, AA was only being contracted out for the work at the time, so communication wasn't as clear between the two houses at the time. DST's ships have also only gotten better with each release as they see what works and what doesn't, what customers respond to, and what lessons they take away from each project. So I don't see why a Voyager release would suffer from any of the problems or mistakes the E-E suffered from.

Ebay sales of the Playmates Voyager aren't indicative of how well a DST release would do either. The only reason it sells for as much as it has in the past is because of its relative rarity. It certainly isn't due to the popularity of Voyager series, the ship, or the design of the ship, or the quality of the ship itself.

[Gothneo]

I'd just like to point out that when I count all the TOS figures done by DST (not AA), including the TWOK, capt's chairs and exclusives, etc... I get 33. When I count all the TNG & DS9 figures done (again including capts chairs, and exclusives, etc...), there are about 50 total thus far.

I didn't count anything on the pre-release schedule, but I think with a 33 vs 50 score, it's reasonable to say DST has produced a good number of TNG & DS9 figures.

Oh and for those that don't know it, you can still purchase entire cases of TNG wave 1 & wave 2 on the internet for about $40. That's 8 figures in a case at $5 ea. DST cut the production waaaay back for wave 3. Not sure why

[pickard]

If we did, it must've been in one of DST's low-quality Klingon BoP prototypes from 2045, since that's probably about the same time we'll see them release a Klingon BoP toy. (Or should I say Klingon D-7 Battlecruiser to keep with the VOY theme. ) HSBR, the reason this is becoming a "sales thread" for DST, is because DST is currently operating under the fallacy that "Voyager toys won't sell," and therefore they're reaching the (false) conclusion that Voyager toys shouldn't be made.

I don't know if it's a fallacy, but it is a completely unproven hypothesis.

DST needs to be convinced that people will buy Voyager toys.

DST needs to gather some facts instead of just assuming Voyager won't sell, because Chuck didn't like the show, or whatever similar research they've done.

The show lasted for 7 seasons on a pseudo-network. Neither Angel, Stargate: Atlantis or BSG-R can make that claim, yet DST got some mileage out of those properties. Voyager has a following. Maybe it can only support one wave, but putting some product out there would gauge interest.

[New Frontier]

fallacy - no it's not a fallacy, it's pretty much a fact that Voyager is one of the least popular Star Trek's - perhaps only really beating Enterprise. Whilst it might have a following i think Voyager could only perhaps support a few exclusives of Janeway and perhaps borg figures - I think 7of9 is a generally sort after character too because of the way she looks - DST's figure does look pretty cool and i don't know any Trekker man who'd not want that on their desk.

The ships, well i agree with Knightone on that - they can make the money for DST and if they keep improving i think they will become even more popular.

DST are tucking their tails between their legs with their figures and focusing on what they know will sell better than other things, their props, their ships and TOS related items - their borg wave could possibly indicate where they should focus their attention on, i think if it fails then we wont see any more figures from TNG, DS9 or Voyager, if it is a success, they will need to figure out a way to release more and perhaps include other Trek Borg related characters in it. I think the Borg line could include some Voyager figures - but I'm guessing it would be a few Janeway variants. DST might have done more non-TOS figures but out of the 50 figures DST have produced for TNG and DS9 - how many are just new heads?

[pickard]

Oh, I didn't realize you'd repeat the opinion. I guess that makes it a fact. Well-played.

[Whirlygig]

@pickard,
You didn't realize? I think it should be obvious by now. That's how he rolls.

One cannot know whether Voyager will or will not sell without trying. They're trying with some Seven figures. So, that's something.

UPDATE: In fact, you know what? I'm going to go preorder a 2nd set of Borg Wave 1 to open. And I just might order several Sevens from EE to give to friends who like Star Trek. Might as well follow my own advice and support VOY as much as I can.

[TheHSBR]

I think its pretty ridiculous to even begin to speculate on what shows are the most supported since the only way to even come close to an idea is to conduct a scientific poll of Trek fans to see what their likes/dislikes are. If anyone has one done by maybe Trek Insider or some other reputable source I would love to see it. The last poll I saw on Voyager said that 100% of Trek fans absolutely love Voyager (because I was the only one who responded). Essentially this poll is just as accurate as any of the other wild speculations going on here. Its one thing to have an opinion about the popularity of a series but its a completely other issue to try to turn that opinion into fact. Anyhoo, I think DST doesnt give us the whole picture on what sells and what doesnt sell. However if they keep cancelling items that speaks volumes to how much money they are making overall. I can say in my opinion that if the DS9 packs/chair gets cancelled Voyager has no hope....and that greatly upsets me.

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

UPDATE: In fact, you know what? I'm going to go preorder a 2nd set of Borg Wave 1 to open. And I just might order several Sevens from EE to give to friends who like Star Trek. Might as well follow my own advice and support VOY as much as I can.

Well, I may not be one of your friends, but if you're giving out Sevens, I'll be more than happy to take one.. LOL

My opinion from the beginning w/r/t Voyager figures is that Seven, Janeway, and Doctor will be made and that's probably it. That opinion is no more supported, and no more valid than anybody else's but to me it makes sense. Doc and Seven are the easiest to make variants for to amortize the costs, but it's all predicated on colored-shoulder Sisko being released in some form. Even if the height is way off, I can see them using the colored-shoulder Dax that they previewed at one point as a base for Janeway, especially if they don't plan to make any other figures in that uniform.

[pickard]

Well, I may not be one of your friends, but if you're giving out Sevens, I'll be more than happy to take one.. LOL

My opinion from the beginning w/r/t Voyager figures is that Seven, Janeway, and Doctor will be made and that's probably it.

That's OK with me. Those are the only figures I really want.

[FHC]

fallacy - no it's not a fallacy, it's pretty much a fact that Voyager is one of the least popular Star Trek's - perhaps only really beating Enterprise. Whilst it might have a following i think Voyager could only perhaps support a few exclusives of Janeway and perhaps borg figures - I think 7of9 is a generally sort after character too because of the way she looks - DST's figure does look pretty cool and i don't know any Trekker man who'd not want that on their desk.

The ships, well i agree with Knightone on that - they can make the money for DST and if they keep improving i think they will become even more popular.

DST are tucking their tails between their legs with their figures and focusing on what they know will sell better than other things, their props, their ships and TOS related items -

That's what a business does. In my business, we had an area that wanted service and while it was a small group that asked for it, we assumed that it was a much larger group, but we had just not heard from all of them. We expanded and after a year, we had lost money every single month, so we stopped the service. The first priority of a business is to make a profit. No if someone wanted to front the money, bravely, then I would say that DST would go right ahead and make them.

The truth of the matter is that unless this new movie attracts interest in older Trek across the board, that is the only thing that I can see that will increase the percentage that Voyager figures get made.

[Whirlygig]

Well, I may not be one of your friends, but if you're giving out Sevens, I'll be more than happy to take one.. LOL

Come on now, everybody here on this board who would like a Seven needs to buy their own. The gifts are for the folks who would never spend money on one, for whatever reason. You're someone who likes to buy toys! VOY needs your order! If you can't afford it then come over and mow my lawn some day and then I can give you the money (or a figure).

I did follow through with my plan though. I now have a total of 7 Sevens on order counting the two full wave sets... Two as Borg, and five in jumpsuit. If you don't care about the rest of the Borg wave, then ordering individual Sevens in the jumpsuit from EE means they have to order a whole new case for every 2 they sell, if my figurin' be correct.

[Gothneo]

Come on now, everybody here on this board who would like a Seven needs to buy their own. The gifts are for the folks who would never spend money on one, for whatever reason. You're someone who likes to buy toys! VOY needs your order! If you can't afford it then come over and mow my lawn some day and then I can give you the money (or a figure).

I did follow through with my plan though. I now have a total of 7 Sevens on order counting the two full wave sets... Two as Borg, and five in jumpsuit. If you don't care about the rest of the Borg wave, then ordering individual Sevens in the jumpsuit from EE means they have to order a whole new case for every 2 they sell, if my figurin' be correct.

Or they just sell out of 7's ....

[Whirlygig]

Or they just sell out of 7's ....

Somewhere I read that a case of this wave will include 2 assimilated crewmen, 2 borg drones, 2 borg Sevens, and 2 jumpsuit Sevens. If that is wrong, my figurin's be incorrect. If there is a way for a retailer to get Sevens without getting the other characters, then I'm not helping quite as much as I hoped; but still, the more Sevens sell, the more VOY-related sales points we score from DST's perspective.