410 replies to this topic

[1701D]

Im curious... for those whove seen Orville, are you mostly enjoying it for what it is or are you enjoying it because you wish on some level Star Trek was doing something just as familiar and predictable with its universe?

[Alteran195]

Im enjoying it for what it is.

Im glad Trek isnt doing another episodic series, and are doing something different.

[Gothneo]

Like Alteran195... I'm enjoying it for what it is. I just like decent sci-fi... and I'd say this is better than decent, it at least gets the "good" rating from me. not sure if I think its "great" yet, but give it time.

[MisterPL]

I enjoy it in spite of it being a blatant knockoff of TNG.

 

So far the stories are pretty good and the cast is engaging. I don't cringe quite as much every time I see or hear something that reminds me of TNG so that's a plus but I do wish they'd do their own thing in terms of style. There's no reason why this couldn't break out and no longer be slavish to 90s era Star Trek.

 

That main title theme is an ear worm, I'll give it that.

[1701D]

In terms of longevity...

Do you think The Orville has to break out from its TNG shadow or do you think Star Trek: Discovery needs to learn from its own franchises past and The Orville and be a bit lighter and brighter and more like traditional Star Trek to survive?

I find this fascinating because in many ways The Orville is more Star Trek to many than Star Trek is at the moment so I wondered if that was a bad thing for Star Trek or for Orville? Or whether both are doing the right thing and neither should become something that is different from what they set out to be?

[Gothneo]

Its certainly different from TNG... for example, I can't remember ever seeing an episode TOS or TNG where the ships Dr has to brutally kill someone, while later telling their child to value life.  I don't get confused and think that its Star Trek at all... but as MisterPL points out it is a homage and so there are aesthetics and bits clearly done in the TNG style as part of that homage. 

[MisterPL]

The last episode delivered the lowest ratings yet. I'd argue the novelty is wearing off and that The Orville needs to find its own way. It's probably best this isn't a 23-episode season. They've got two more episodes to bounce back up or at least hold the audience they have.

 

Personally I think they have an identity crisis.

[Whirlygig]

I think the show is playing it a bit too straight.  I am OK with that but I don't think the rest of the world will eat it up that way, without more humor.  I did not like the clown episode that much.  For one thing, the "is this character crazy, or not" stories have always tried my patience.  But for another, I still find these characters all too flimsy for a strong focus on any one of them to compel me through an entire hour.

 

People often talk about character development like it somehow helps us, the audience, get invested in a show.  I believe that is backward.  I don't believe that it is really an accumulation of crappy "Alara" (or "Geordi/Picard/Data/whoever") episodes that build and build in our viewership memories and make us understand and appreciate the character more in future installments.  I think a crappy Alara/GeordiPicard/Data/whoever episode remains a crappy one forever and does nothing to help us viewers feel affinity for the show.  I still can't stand to slog through most of S1 of TNG.  No, the development is what happens behind the scenes.  The writers AND the actors figure out, through trial and error, who each character is, and subject us to this process all along the way, until finally one day they either figure it out or they don't.  But when they do, suddenly there's more nuance in the new episodes, we are compelled by Picard because he finally is a believable person and both Patrick Stewart and the writing staff know who that is.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they did a fantastic job of character development, it just means that given enough time they were able to get there.  Everything before it may well have been mostly crap.  And new viewers are instantly gripped by Picard, because as a believable person, they can infer things about him just as they can with real people -- they don't need to go back and watch all that trial-and-error to fall in love with the character.

 

I feel that Orville is still stuck in the "mostly crap" phase, even though I am able to put up with it personally because there's enough there I approve of.  As well we should expect it to be, as season 1 of a TV show.

 

But TV has gotten a pass for this over all the years and it's probably a big part of why TV is held in a lower regard than film, which is now turning around because TV writers and producers and directors are starting to take themselves more seriously.

 

There is certainly no shortage of bad films, but, when films are good, they have generally been good because they are produced by a different part of the industry that knows they only get one shot, unlike the TV side where they get to experiment weekly for years at a stretch.  In the film world, you start with a good writer who knows how to define the characters/story out of the chute with a tight screenplay, and you continue with good actors who know how to find that character before filming is too far along, and you start with a good director who knows how to put it all together.  And television is starting to conduct itself more in that manner these days.

 

Orville clearly shows as one of those old-world productions where they are rushing things, throwing spaghetti at the wall, and hoping they will eventually mature to something great.  Which was fine, and worked, for many of our favorite TV shows throughout history, including Star Trek.  But I don't think the new world is going to be too kind for too much longer to that sort of thing.

 

So, Orville better shape up and get its crap together!  That's all I'm sayin'. 

[Gothneo]

If your saying that the episodes that shine are the ones where they are truly working more as an ensemble, then I agree.

[Gothneo]

I really enjoyed that episode. From a sci-fi perspective that was some good techno babble. I'm feeling this crew... and the Orville genuinely seems like a ship you'd like to serve on.

[MisterPL]

I expected there to be more brown humans in the distant future.

[Whirlygig]

I expected there to be more brown humans in the distant future.

I found the fact that LaMarr's first line and introduction on the series was a couple of words away from a "grape soda" joke to be in poor taste and was surprised I didn't see any outrage over it.

[MisterPL]

About having soda on the bridge? I took it as an IT joke. My company's had a policy against open beverages near computers since we got computers but some departments are a little more forgiving than others.

[Gothneo]

That's the way I took it too... People where I work were allowed to eat and drink in labs until someone made a mess and didn't clean it up ... Then some managers decided to punish everyone...others just told the people who weren't responsible they couldn't

[Whirlygig]

I know how (assuming innocence) it was meant to be taken, but if I had been reading the script in the writer's room I would have suggested maybe giving that joke to a character who wasn't black to play it safer. 

[Alteran195]

Of all the bad humor in the pilot, that one never even entered my mind as being one of them. That scene never gave an impression that he was asking about grape soda, or that it had anything to do with him being black. 

[MisterPL]

I know how (assuming innocence) it was meant to be taken, but if I had been reading the script in the writer's room I would have suggested maybe giving that joke to a character who wasn't black to play it safer. 

 

In my professional experience, I've noticed certain areas of the world (or regions of the United States, to be specific) are a bit more sensitive to things like that. 

 

A company I worked with got hate mail from an African-American grandmother in Georgia because a greeting card manufactured by that company and given to her granddaughter was racist. She didn't explain why and it was up to us to figure out why this woman was so offended.

 

The card featured a picture of a Barbie™ doll, decked out in a sparkly, glittering ball down, with a verse that read, "You shine, Valentine!"

 

It turns out that "shine" is a derogatory term for an African-American and because the doll in the image was black, the card was considered racist. We were completely ignorant to it (and I'm pretty sure the granddaughter was as well). It certainly wasn't the intent but we apologized to the consumer and sent her some (hopefully) non-offensive cards as a gesture of goodwill.

 

Hopefully grape soda isn't a big deal in the 25th century.

[Whirlygig]

I hear ya MisterPL and that's a good story. I do however think Seth knows the grape soda thing. Most people in comedy know racist stereotypes because a certain kind of comic employs them in the right crowds in whatever form they can make work. That's how I am familiar with it, through ingestion of racy standup over the years, and being surrounded by white friends growing up in small town white america who aspired to be comedians themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if Chapelle did a bit on it either but I never watched that whole series. You can just go ahead and google it and see that I am not making this up...

[MisterPL]

Oh, I know you're not making it up. And given MacFarlane's brand of humor I'd be surprised if he wasn't aware of it. He's the kind of guy who'd put a can of grape Crush in the dude's hand. That's why I'm thinking it's more a nod to workplace beverage etiquette than it is a subtle nod to a racial stereotype.

 

And who the hell doesn't like grape soda, fried chicken, and watermelon? That's manna from Heaven!

[Gothneo]

I love grape soda.... They have those machines that will mix and match soda syrup... I found "grape mellow yellow" to be especially tasty.