113 replies to this topic

[weyoun_9]

I dunno.. I don't see the confusion in AA/DST? It's a merged company. When Daimler/Chrysler was around, that didn't make wonder which one it was. Just my thought on that since I've seen it pop up here and there.

I completely disagree. I think there is a massive disconnect between AA and DST. They each have a separate website and, in many cases, the information available does not match. In fact, still, there are figures that have been available for years, or were available and have since sold out, that are listed as "coming soon," some with a date that has long since passed. Since DST's website has the capability to order from...I have never understood why they haven't used that more efficiently. If retailers aren't interested in carrying their stuff because of whatever reason...try maximizing the potential of YOUR OWN site and encourage people to buy only from there. I'm not super familiar with the MOTU line, but if I understand correctly one buys those from them direct. AA keeps saying they're not equipped but they have a website where you can buy things...tat seems like they ARE equipped.

A different example...when Sprint took over, I think it was Nextel, they each scrapped their former branding and combined. So, when AA rebuilt their website and hey combined with DST, then they should have absorbed the DST website, or vice-versa. Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of the merging...eventually Nextel's name was removed from Sprint's information completely, like Kinko's was from Fed Ex "Office." Right now, whichever parent company is "in charge," be it AA or DST...they need to look and act like a unified company. I think it kind of speaks to the nature of their business being a bit disorganized. It's not surprising there are delays and lack of retailer confidence.

Don't get me wrong, I love their work when it's available and I think its great that they communicate with us so openly... but to this layman they look like they could use a little help streamlining their business model.

[VulcanFanatic]

After last years movie success, i thought surely we would have loads of merchandising success too, but it didnt seem to be that way so much. I know we have had the economic mess of the last couple of years, but i dont think thats holding back Star Trek collectors from buying as much as its caused DST to curtail taking chances on product without a solid preorder standing. I am dismayed that B&M stores treat Star Trek like the plague. I wonder if Walmart and Target were still smarting from Playmates handling of the Star Trek line in the late 90's that alienated a lot of collectors and left the stores with inventory that they could hardly even give away , much less sell for a profit, when Playmates put out the 2009 line. It was obvious that Walmart and Target had no confidence in the line by the placement and quantities they offered in the stores. Its a stores job to sell an item, with placement and promotion being the tools used to sell an item. I really think that if Playmates could have gotten Walmart and Target excited about the toyline, there would have been success through cross promotions, prominent placement in the stores and better sales would have meant future waves of figures. I know many people have theories about how to make something work better, but it really is what another poster said, "you have to spend money, to make money". Cheaping out will not get you the success you are looking for.

DST seems to believe that the failure of the Playmates line means no one will buy their figures either, which i believe is an error on their part. DST's Star Trek line has always worked better as a specialty line, sold through specialty shops or stores. TRU has never been much more than a store that sells for kids, and lines that are marketed to adult collectors are no doubt not as successful at TRU. DST has never seemed to be large enough to handle the kind of business that TRU needs to be successful with. I believe collectors were likely the only buyers of the DST Star Trek figures at TRU and loads of Kirks were not going to sell to collectors that already had these figures. Every new figure that TRU carried sold like hotcakes, that should have told DST and TRU something.

My thoughts are that DST just needs to stay a specialty store figure producer, not look at the rest of the market and not rely on preorders to tell them if something will sell. I think they should commit to at least one ship and one Tech peice per year, and one wave of five figures per year. I think they will have success as long as they produce new figures, keep the quantities produced reasonable and quality assurance consistent.

[s8film40]

I really think that if Playmates could have gotten Walmart and Target excited about the toyline, there would have been success through cross promotions, prominent placement in the stores and better sales would have meant future waves of figures. I know many people hav e theories about how to make something work better, but it really is what another poster said, "you have to spend money, to make money". Cheaping out will not get you the success you are looking for.

DST seems to believe that the failure of the Playmates line means no one will buy their figures either, which i believe is an error on their part. DST's Star Trek line has always worked better as a specialty line, sold through specialty shops or stores. TRU has never been much more than a store that sells for kids, and lines that are marketed to adult collectors are no doubt not as successful at TRU. DST has never seemed to be large enough to hndle the kind of business that TRU needs to be successful with. I believe collectors were likely the only buyers of the DST S

Maybe it was different in your area but the stores here really gave the toy line the best possible chance they could. Walmart in addition to having large quantities even put these displays up in the middle of the main aisles.


I personally believe the failure of the line had more to do with the movie itself than anything else. It just wasn't the type of Trek that generated that kind of interest. Sure it had box office success but I think most peoples interest in the movie disappeared when they walked out of the theater. It was a fun movie to watch but just wasn't something you could get into and want to collect merchandise from.

[VulcanFanatic]

The figures here in my area seemed to be obscured on endcaps at the very back of the store aisles, where you really had to be looking for them to find them. Yes, there are many reasons why this line wasnt a success.

1. A consumer usually buys collectible merchandise that brings comfort or makes them feel good. Many people dont think that way about the new movie, so therefore they bought no merchandise from it.
2. The packaging was unappealing, or ugly in some opinions.
3. Quality of the product.
4. Lack of selection, some figures were hard to find, lack of non federation figures, playset quality, lack of alien ships.

Lots of other reasons too, but i wish that Playmates failure because of their "cheaping out" on this line wasnt used by other companies as a reason to not produce Star Trek collectibles.

[reverie]

I thought that Toys was trying to update it's image a little and expand into "adult collectibles" though? If so, Trek, could have a place there (I'm not saying Toys has been completely successful, just saying what I'd read a while back).

[s8film40]

I disagree wholeheartedly!!!

I don't think the movie was "forgettable" I just don't think it created a fan following. I think it's possible to create a movie that is successful but does not create a following. Take for example the current big movie "Tron", I will go and see and in fact am looking forward to it. It will likely be a huge success and I am sure myself and many other will thoroughly enjoy it. Now will I go out and buy merchandise, will I become a Tron fan, no, will I go see a sequel sure. I think the Abrams Star Trek will be successful as a series of movies but I just haven't seen much evidence that it is taking off as a fan following.

[bgiles73]

I don't think the movie was "forgettable" I just don't think it created a fan following. I think it's possible to create a movie that is successful but does not create a following. Take for example the current big movie "Tron", I will go and see and in fact am looking forward to it. It will likely be a huge success and I am sure myself and many other will thoroughly enjoy it. Now will I go out and buy merchandise, will I become a Tron fan, no, will I go see a sequel sure. I think the Abrams Star Trek will be successful as a series of movies but I just haven't seen much evidence that it is taking off as a fan following.

We might not buy into it, but I've noticed alot of kids taking notice of Spinmaster's Tron line. The 3 3/4" figures really aren't all that much more detailed than the Playmate's 2009 Star Trek line, but the interactivity between the figures, vehicles and roleplay are what this line has that Playmates and DST can't grasp. Playmates should not have done a transporter playset in the first wave that set wasn't very action oriented. The shuttle orbital jump and drilling platform should have been included in the line up! So should the two Delta Vega monsters. We should have been able to find in adittion to the Enterprise- The Kevin and Nerada. What is a kid to do with only one advesary figure with no ship. Hell, the 6" figure of Nero didn't even come with a pistol. This line was boring and that's why it's still lingering on shelves.

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

Oh man, I feel so far behind, and it hasn't been THAT long since I last logged in. I just want to say w.r.t. Chuck's response... Kudos Chuck! It's nice to see a little spice mixed into the Q & A's. I feel like Chuck's response was intended to answer probably a fair amount of fan-hate mail on the subject, but I fear that it's only going to intensify, at least in the short term, those kinds of "questions."

When it comes to what DST should or shouldn't do, what will sell, how they market, etc. etc. ... these guys do this for a living and they want to be successful, just like every one of us want to be successful at our jobs. People like Edward are justifiably frustrated because they see the unfulfilled possibilities of what THEY want, and seemingly assume that it is by extension what EVERYONE wants. I like seeing his passion because I think it means good things for the franchise going forward, though I don't think he should have laid all this right on DST's doorstep. They're trying their best. Telling them how much they stink is not going to change anything, and not going to get them to listen to anything he has to say.

My own pet theory on the franchise...

I never really thought the line would be, or could plausibly be, successful. In fact, it's really hard to make a successful toy line out of JUST a movie. Box office is one thing, but toys and merchandising are a whole other ball of wax. If a movie is not marketed specifically to children of the right age group (like, say, Toy Story, or Cars), then I don't think it really can work on its own. The Star Wars and Transformers franchises have animated series which specifically target this same age group, and that helps to buoy the overall line. While I'm sure it's box office receipts are good, a movie like Star Trek, in a vacuum, is targeted toward older teenagers. The majority of this age group would probably be mortified at the prospect of buying action figures for fear their friends will find out. Viacom/Paramount/CBS/whoever probably doesn't care much about the merchandising of the franchise anyway, at least not in comparison to box office receipts, when judging the health of the franchise.

The 90''s heyday of Star Trek toys was just that because TNG was accessible to kids week-in and week-out. In a world still dominated by the big 3 networks, without the extensive fragmentation of the media market we have today, Star Trek TNG was a much more interesting show for an 8, 9, 10 year old child to watch at 7pm, than say.. Cheers. I don't really know who their main competiton was, but it was most likely a sitcom kids won't find nearly as interesting. If they are, then, watching, they will want toys built around those shows they are watching, and, well, off we go. Without SOMETHING targeted to kids (not necessarily an animated series), I don't think the toy line really has much hope.

I'm a bit of a prude I suppose, and though I have no kids, based on how Star Trek was advertised, there's no way I'd let my hypothetical 8-10 yr. old kid watch Kirk bar-fighting and putting the moves on an underwear-clad Uhura. If a lot of other people think the way I do, that's a problem for toy sales. Regardless of box office.

[Gothneo]

If anything, this thread just re-iterates some of Chucks points...

One fan does not speak for everyone, and as fans, and consumers, we don't know all the reasons and rational for why Trek toys don't seem to be popular right now.

As an example, many people right here on this forum, have weighed in that they really like the new Kirk head sculpt, while others do not. I was thrilled with the case packout and a the re-issue of a single carded Scotty, as I wanted the Scotty heads for customs, and happily purchased two sets of the wave, besides... you can always use more red shirts (those figures just seem to get broken for no reason )

I applaud Chuck and all the employees of DST for their efforts and for trying to get us, the fans, some product for the show we love.

I'd love to see more product, but if all I get is a new piece of Trek Tek every year, I'm happy with that as I think DST is doing a bang-out job in that regards. Besides, its not like anyone else out there is actually trying to do anything with the license.

[FHC]

I have to agrtee with you Goth. If nothing else their Trek Tec is the best yet.

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I'm wondering though what CBS think of all this. They own the brand name and make money from the merchandise - are they thinking the same way as Paramount because unless they get a cut of the movies box office profit then they might be quite concerned that the merchandise isn't selling as they had hoped? Whilst Paramount would probably be content with someone like DST doing a smaller toy line for the sequel and letting the classic Trek movies and TV shows lay dormant - obviously CBS aren't since they want to cash in on the success...

I THINK CBS' plan was that they would build upon the movie, and it hasn't quite panned out yet. There was hope that this would be the beginning of a new, long-term phase of Star Trek in the franchise's history in the same way that TMP ignited a movie franchise from the show, followed by TNG 10 years later. I don't think it's by accident that TNG's intro theme was borrowed directly from the movies. My guess is that 2009, while not a failure, is in some sort of middle ground where it's success was not enough (yet) to contemplate a new TV show, and merchandising would probably follow that. It's too soon to say whether or not that's how it will pan out. The success or failure of the sequels will make it evident. While they wait, they might be figuring that they can make at least some money off smaller companies and product lines like DST provide.

Kids often find movies such as Terminator Salvation, Transformers, GI-Joe, and super-hero movies appealing because of the violence and the sexual references, two words for you; Megan Fox. Whilst Star Trek did have sexual references and an obvious change of pace and action from it's predecessors, it wasn't nearly as plotless or pointless as the likes of Gi-Joe or Transformers.

I'm not sure whether or not we're saying the same thing, but I think that Transformers the toy line succeeds in spite of, and not because of, the movie franchise. Transformers has the advantage that they are not just action figures, but planes/cars/etc that kids can play with. Star Trek are just people in funny costumes. It's not that kids love explosions and sex. Teenagers do, but toy-buying aged kids are more interested in heroes vs. villians stories, and action oriented toys. Transformers doesn't target just one demographic. If the animated shows that followed G1 Transformers did not exist, the toy line would probably have tanked relatively speaking, but still outpaced the latest Playmates Star Trek failure by virtue of the inherent playability of the toys.

[iams001efni]

Good for Chuck! I think he deserves some leeway considering what he's up against. I'm just thankful to have them around at all. I'm sure its hard for them to do business, and as far as I'm concerned lets be happy for what we do get. I don't understand why we have to go into hour long rants about all this. What happens, happens, there's nothing really to be done.

[bgiles73]

I find this quote from DST Chuck interesting:

"One more question- for you this time. What company do you think is waiting in the wings to jump on the Classic Trek license? WE love Trek, we

[Gothneo]

I think that was a rhetorical question.

...and I, for one, am not interested in a 3 3/4 line.

[Commander Hunter]

As a long time Trek buyer, alot of stuff was cancelled way before the Star Trek movie came out. The Borg Waves would of sold at an alarming rate without a doubt. DST needs to step away at this point. I am sorry but that the way I feel. They have given us some great figures but I feel cheated that I don't have at the very least a Quark to finish off my DS9 collection.

[bgiles73]

I think that was a rhetorical question.

...and I, for one, am not interested in a 3 3/4 line.

Well, to each their own. I'm not wanting to see a demise of the 7" line, but I'm also not looking forward to anything more from it either. I think the line has run it's course in DST's eyes. I'm hopeful that what would be the next best thing in my opinion - a quality line in the scale of my other collecting vice- Star Wars. I think the best chance for that would have been a DST/Playmates collaboration. As it stands right now we are at a bit of an impasse in regards to retail buyers wanting to obligate to support a Star Trek line. Fickle sales have cast a shadow of doubt over the merits of the property. Any company that's going to stick it's neck out to back the line will have to tread with caution. So I don't really foresee any other companies willing to take that shot. So the DST/Playmates collaboration seems like it would be a match made in heaven as both companies have people employed there that are passionate about this franchise we all love so much.

[Gothneo]

Well, to each their own.

Exactly! But that's also part of the reason product doesn't sell... you want this, and I want that, but he wants something else... DST just can't win! (I think There's an obscure homage to the J. Giels in that post! )