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New Star Trek Series starring Patrick Stewart


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#101 Alteran195

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 09:36 AM

Kurtzman gave some updates on pretty much every series in the works today. Surprising no one, he wasnt actually fired.

http://trekcore.com/...wer-decks-more/

#102 Gothneo

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:34 PM

Well... I think I'm both encouraged and discouraged by that article. 

 

Its encouraging that they brought Stewart into the writers room as a sound board. Also... for the rumor naysayers that think Picard would never be involved in Sec 31 because he wouldn't do covert work... one of the most famous and beloved episodes he goes on a covert assignment and gets captured!  So if that is part of the narrative... because that seems to be a thread for all the JJ-Verse... then there is some precedence... but I don't have to like that everything in trek has to do with sec 31 now.

 

On the more discouraging side is commentary about trek basically being aimed for a young demographic... coupled with his reference to Star Wars tells me that He still doesn't get what Roddenbery or even what Berman's Trek was about. My fear has always been... and it seems substantiated, that Kurtzman loves his conspiracy driven/teamed shows, and that they have made that the fundamental moral base and characteristic of his kind of Trek. 



#103 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 07:00 AM

I will wait and see what Picard is like. Based on everything else that Kurtzman has been involved in that I've seen, I am not very enthusiastic.

#104 Gothneo

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:48 AM

Im a fan if his work on Xena: Warrior Princess !

#105 Morgan

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:21 PM

It's kind of a given at this point that Picard will be "doing missions" with his new crew and his old crew, and they won't be on a ship in every episode. I think that can be just deduced at this point, and it's what the writers expect the audience to want anyway.

 

If you think about where Picard is career-wise (and the teaser doesn't steer us away from this supposition) he's gonna be doing different missions in the vein of, how some have already mentioned, "Chain of Command" and the one with Vash where they find the Tox Uthat, but not that goofy with Ferengi trailing them. But there will probably also be a main mission of sort sort having to do with Romulus' destruction and what they've already revealed, more or less.



#106 Alteran195

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 12:46 PM

Michael Chabon has been named showrunner of Picard. Pretty exciting news I think, Calypso was one of my favorite Short Treks.

https://deadline.com...ies-1202638580/

#107 Gothneo

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:28 PM

Yeah... but he's also responsible for the debacle of a screen play for John Carter.  



#108 Alteran195

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 04:02 PM

He didnt have creative control over John Carter.

If someone like Craig Mazin, who has some shit writing credits, can make something as incredible as Chernobyl when they have full creative control, I trust Pulitzer Prize winning Chabon with Picard.

Time will tell of course!



#109 Alex

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 06:39 PM

Well... I think I'm both encouraged and discouraged by that article. 

 

Its encouraging that they brought Stewart into the writers room as a sound board. Also... for the rumor naysayers that think Picard would never be involved in Sec 31 because he wouldn't do covert work... one of the most famous and beloved episodes he goes on a covert assignment and gets captured!  So if that is part of the narrative... because that seems to be a thread for all the JJ-Verse... then there is some precedence... but I don't have to like that everything in trek has to do with sec 31 now.

 

On the more discouraging side is commentary about trek basically being aimed for a young demographic... coupled with his reference to Star Wars tells me that He still doesn't get what Roddenbery or even what Berman's Trek was about. My fear has always been... and it seems substantiated, that Kurtzman loves his conspiracy driven/teamed shows, and that they have made that the fundamental moral base and characteristic of his kind of Trek. 

I was personally more encouraged than discouraged by that article, although there were definitely a couple of things in their that rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Picard potentially being involved in Section 31 makes total sense for the very reason you cited about that one memorable TNG episode. (I can still see him on the bridge of that outlaw ship to this day.) Also, if I were a Section 31 operative, say a scumbag named Sloan for instance, I would be drooling over the chance to recruit Picard. I mean, look at this guy's credentials for such an organization:

 

  • Firsthand experience with the Borg (Could we use him to commit near–genocide of their species?)
  • Firsthand experience with Shinzon, and a working relationship with the Romulan Star Empire, or what's left thereof (Can we use him to bring them into the Federation or if that fails, subdue them?)
  • Covert ops experience (Granted, he was captured, but he still has it)
  • Resists torture well (Ask him how many lights there are)
  • Has time travel experience (Could be used to "correct" historical issues retroactively)
  • Is already widely regarded as a diplomat (Allows him to blend in where others wouldn't)

Basically, if you're Section 31, you'd have to look at the stuff above and think that this guy could really help you tip the balance of power in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants pretty much however you want them to be. Likewise, I could see a Picard that went through confrontations with the Borg and Shinzon being a very different man from the Picard we met at the start of TNG, and even the Picard that only went through assimilation by the Borg. Now throw in a rescue armada that might not have been as successful as had been hoped, coupled with the supposed loss of Ambassador Spock, who we know Picard had connections with, and I could see Picard being a lot more curmudgeonly than we remember.

 

Also of note, this is NOT a JJ–verse installment! Yes, it has some ties to the first Kelvin Timeline movie, but those ties are to the Prime Universe portion of that movie, not to the alternate timeline itself.

 

I should also note that you sort of pointed out the one reason I wouldn't want to see Picard in Section 31, and that's the fact that we're already doubling down on that organization as it is. Whatever else happens in DSC S3, we know that Mirror Georgiou has to somehow wind up in a different time period than she's currently in, as she needs to be in place for the Section 31 show, which went into pre–production as soon as DSC S3's writing wrapped. DSC itself has obviously been big on Section 31, both to its success and to its detriment. Now making it a focal point of Picard would just make it feel shoehorned in, unless it really makes sense to utilize the organization in some way, and even then I'd prefer it to be fairly brief.

 

I also have a love/hate relationship with Kurtzman's comments about aiming at a younger demographic. On one hand, I get it, this is a preemptive attempt to avoid anything like the fiasco that happened with Enterprise from happening again where there's basically a "gap" between the older fanbase and the "emerging" fanbase that might just be starting to discover Trek. (Part of the problem with ENT was that it was trying to bring in fresh blood while still satisfying the long–time fanbase and simultaneously serving neither. A separate show for this purpose would effectively eliminate that issue.) On the other hand, Trek never aiming for anyone below the age of 12 effectively served as an "idiot filter" on the fanbase for lack of a better term. Young kids who liked Trek tended to be very, very smart and mature, and typically not like others in their age group, and other fans typically were more intelligent as well, and for the most part tended to "get" what Trek was truly about. The Kelvin Timeline effectively removed the "idiot filter," and the result is that awful film known as Star Trek Into Darkness, as well as a more action–oriented tone overall, even when the writing quality is at least somewhat better, such as in Star Trek Beyond, and Star Trek: Discovery. Aiming for a younger demographic is effectively doubling down on this same issue. However, there are definitely reasons to do it, namely the fact that most people already sort of know what they like by the time they're 12, and getting someone around that age to try something like Trek isn't exactly easy. On the other hand, if you have something that a younger audience is familiar with, you can at least get them to try the thing aimed at adults that's a bit more mature. (Think of this as the TV equivalent of sticking a pill in ice cream to get your kid to take it.) I agree that the Star Wars analogy did more harm than good, but would argue that it's not necessarily a bad one. You had cartoons like Clone Wars/Rebels that definitely got kids interested in that franchise, but you also had films like Rogue One that might have brought in people who wouldn't necessarily have gone to see the main films otherwise. A Trek series aimed at kids isn't a bad idea, but it's one that can definitely be botched very easily and that really needs to be handled carefully.

 

I won't lie, I'm honestly the least interested in the animated comedy series that's aimed at adults. This entire concept just rubs me the wrong way for a variety of reasons, but the main ones are as follows:

  • It sounds like what everyone thought The Orville was going to be originally, which is "Star Trek: Family Guy," and while I enjoy both of those separately, the idea of mixing them together is nightmarish
  • It's not just a comedy series, and it's not just an animated series. I could live with one or the other, but it feels like there are already enough animated comedies as it is, and Trek doesn't need to be and shouldn't be among them
  • If a Trek comedy series was truly something CBS wanted to do, they should've gone to Seth MacFarlane as soon as he started developing The Orville, because it's obvious that he really wanted to do Trek and just could never get the rights to it. (He even said in an interview once that if it weren't for the various legal issues that would arise, the show would be even more like Trek.) Granted, that might have backfired though, as I have a feeling that if that series had been called "Seth MacFarlane's Star Trek: Orville," a lot of people who like it would be criticizing it for being "too comedic" even if it had been sold as a "Star Trek comedy series." This is in effect sort of why I like things like The Orville that are more satire than comedy rather than Trek trying to be a comedy itself
  • It feels like the entire reason this thing exists is specifically because DSC S1 got schooled by The Orville, and CBS is now trying to compete with it as a result, rather than to fix the issues with DSC that are still lingering, even though in fairness, S2 took care of a lot of them

I think the animated series for kids could be interesting or it could be a disaster. I really think the "kids discover a derelict ship" idea isn't the smartest, but maybe I'm wrong. I personally would have done something along the lines of "The Adventures of Red Squad" where we'd see the best of Starfleet Academy during their mission on actual starship. Bill Mummy and Peter David's Space Cases would probably be a decent influence for certain parts of what I'd have done, (and yes, I know they did the derelict ship thing too,) but mainly with how the mentors would interact with the cadets, and the fact that I'd probably have gone with a live action show given how rare live action sci–fi for kids is on TV these days. I'd also try to have at least one person who would eventually make it into one of the main shows so that you could sort of grow with the character over time, but that's just me, and I know similar ideas have backfired for Trek before, like trying to work Ensign Ro into DS9. (Granted, Major Kira was a fine replacement for her.)

 

 

Michael Chabon has been named showrunner of Picard. Pretty exciting news I think, Calypso was one of my favorite Short Treks.

https://deadline.com...ies-1202638580/

I find it funny that they did this after stating the series wouldn't have a traditional showrunner. I wonder if he's indeed a traditional showrunner now, or if it's more a case of "we need someone to do a little bit of light cat–herding, so we'll call that guy the showrunner." Either way, this is a good thing in my eyes, Michael Chabon has proven that he "gets" Trek and can tell a decent Trek story with Calypso.

 

Yeah... but he's also responsible for the debacle of a screen play for John Carter.  

Nah, Disney is responsible for that debacle, and like almost everything they do that doesn't have the word "Marvel" attached to it, they managed to botch something that should have been successful. Years ago I remember listening to a show on satellite radio where someone accurately pointed out that the absolute worst thing about that film wasn't anything in it, but the fact that the marketing department didn't insist on calling it John Carter from Mars, whereas if they had, a lot of people who had no idea who John Carter was, or what the original novel was about would have seen it anyway, even if the film as a whole was still awful. Disney is known for design–by–committee though, so this doesn't surprise me. I would have been more worried before Calypso, specifically because we actually have a Trek installment of Chabon's that we can look at as a sample of his work.

 

EDIT: One more thing... I know that Discovery's official abbreviation is DSC, but... do we have one for Picard yet? (PCD?) Every Trek series to date has a three letter abbreviation, I would be shocked if we don't get one for this new series. (My smart money says Section 31 will obviously be S31, but I'm at a loss for what Picard's might be.)



#110 Gothneo

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 12:08 PM

Some additional thoughts spurned on by Alex...

 

I'm older so I really don't get how teenagers watch TV. My understanding is its mostly what they find on You Tube or some streaming sites... and if thats the case how do you attract them to something like Star Trek thats behind a pay wall? Do they get together with some friend that who's folks pay for it and all watch it on their phones? In my day we talked about it at school and tried to watch stuff when it aired... and if we missed it would hear about what we missed and have to wait for re-runs in the summer! So I guess I just don't get how you target something behind the paywall for kids that young?

 

The Orville may have started out as Family Guy meets Trek... but it really matured well this year. IMO its its own thing and the only thing it really has in common with Trek is perhaps a Humanistic and Optimistic view of the future.

 

I get that their are plenty of people involved in the John Carter debacle... but when something is ruined so badly the way they did with that movie... I hold them all accountable... and thats largely because I've always been a fan of the original books... I think I read them the first time when I was 12! Alex... your absolutely right that they even botched the title... If you were looking to establish a franchise then they should have started with something like "John Carter & the Princess of Mars"... but the obvious would be "John Cater: Warlord of Mars". Because like you say, may people had no idea who John Carter was (and thanks to that movie they still largely don't) but the sub cap I think would have drawn people in... but I'll digress... just so much they messed up in that movie... so I'll quit ranting... but as others have said I'm not writing off... I'll base the work on the finished product, and if I enjoy it it'll raise Chabon's stock in my eyes.



#111 Whirlygig

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 08:30 AM

Just popping my head in quick to say I liked John Carter.

And I don't think the title is responsible for anything...  I mean, audiences went to see "John Wick" and continue to see its installments.  That's a bit of an absurd claim IMO.

No, in my opinion it was simple.  I had no idea what the movie was about due to bad marketing and when I went I was surprised and delighted at all the story elements that I didn't know existed at all, and up until Guardians of the Galaxy, I felt it was the most Star Warsish thing in spirit that I'd seen in a long time.  But most people probably didn't give it a chance because of that lack of understanding of what it was even about.



#112 Gothneo

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 07:04 PM

Well... since we're packing about it... I can fully understand how anyone who's never read the novels could enjoy it. Technically its a good movie, and they did stay true to a good amount of the plot... and your probably right, had they marketed it better people might have flocked to it... but My real issues were as follows:

 

1. A princess of Mars, the title of the first book in a series of 11, was really something new which became known as "Interplanetary Romance", Dejah Thoris is the center of a romance with John Carter in an alien and brutish world. She is courageous, fierce,  but is also in constant danger, Carter continuously comes to her rescue and thereby wins her over. Now this isn't because she's just supposed to be some weak kneed girly girl... but because Mars is a constant battle for all. None of that came through in the movie, rather they re-wrote her to be more of a brainy scientist who had no real need of Carter... thus the whole "Romance" aspect wasn't front and center.

 

2. The movie is really a mashup of elements from basically the first three books... and a good amount of the plot was kinda washed over... which unfortunately wouldn't leave room to tell the proper story as a Trilogy... which it easily could have been... Heck the Marvel Comics adaption was more true to the books... which still managed to fill 28 issues. 

 

3. The pacing was terrible... at times they spent an agonizing amount of time driving home some concepts, which at times were actually almost verbatim to the book, but other times they glossed over elements quickly... which is the purpose of a good adaption because honestly everything described in the novel shouldn't be exhaustively played out... but you need to know when to pick those... its one of the triumphs of Jackson LOTR series that they cut most of the songs and ballads, which are fun to read, but don't really further the plot along in cinematic showing.

 

I probably have more, but those probably sum up my main issues. 



#113 Morgan

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 02:04 PM

Straight from Patrick Stewart's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/SirPatStew

 

D_IRJ_xX4AA6vt6.jpg



#114 Whirlygig

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 04:52 PM

So, is that like a planet or sun or red giant or something... or did the Abrams cult just decide that lens flares should be on every poster now too???

Gothneo, I understand book fan concerns. However the majority of the audience could have, had marketing been better, been people who were not book fans and if it had just made ticket sales then all the "what a flop" chatter would go away and only "unfaithful adaptation" chatter would be left.

#115 Gothneo

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 05:12 PM

Lol right about both of course... and basically bad writing/adaptation... which is can be attributed to "unfaithful adaptation" is where I am ;-)






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