83 replies to this topic

[Chalksquared]

Well, they could have mentioned some of the differences for those of us who aren't so observerant. Or those of us who don't wear our glasses when watching TV.

[Wildcard]

^LOl...well, they didn't do it when they made changes on the ENT-D bridge or even DS9's OPS set, so I'm not sure they would have had a need. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but the bridge for the original DEFIANT and the renamed Sao Paolo to Defiant had slightly different bridges as well that went beyond simple carpet changes.

[Artistix]

^LOl...well, they didn't do it when they made changes on the ENT-D bridge or even DS9's OPS set

Wow...I would never have noticed a change to ops. I barely rememeber the configuration.

You know I thought it was odd when Janeway, B'Elanna & Tuvok were changed into Borgs, they didn't seem to be in any pain...but doesn't the process involve the Borg gouging out one of your eyes to implant the laser beam targeting thing?? Not to mention the horrible things they would do to your body!

[TheHSBR]

I think we should start a nitpickers guide to Voyager book! There were a lot of liberties taken to wash away concepts that would seem to make sense to us. It seemed way too easy to infiltrate the Borg and have no side effects by becoming one of them. We saw a ton of side effects when Picard changed, it seems absurd to think those three (who also expereinced the collective at some level) had no side effects. Im fine with suspending disbelief but many things in Voyager seemed too easy. Im not saying that I didnt like it because it left the show looking clean for the next epsiode but maybe a little more continuation would be cool. A gold star to the writers for occasionally mentioning all of Kims impossible love interests! I always thought it was hilarious when Paris would continually add names to the list of Kims former loves and it was always pretty accurate!!!

[Wildcard]

They did that for Geordi too.

As for the recovery...you have to remember that Crusher was in unfamiliar territory with the transformation of Locutus back to Picard. Her experience and several years of study by Star Fleet Medical would have gone into the Doctor's programing, so there is a little bit of assumption we can make for the more rapid recovery. Not to mention his experience with and insights from 7of9.

Wow...I would never have noticed a change to ops. I barely rememeber the configuration.

You know I thought it was odd when Janeway, B'Elanna & Tuvok were changed into Borgs, they didn't seem to be in any pain...but doesn't the process involve the Borg gouging out one of your eyes to implant the laser beam targeting thing?? Not to mention the horrible things they would do to your body!

The change wasn't that well shown, but there used to be a conduit running overhead from the Engineering stations on the back wall onto O'Brien's station. They removed it and then reconfigured the opposite end of that work station "table" (for lack of a better term) so that you could have an unobtrusive view of Worf at his new OPS station. It was reaaaaally hard to tell because they very rarely did a sweeping shot of OPS after Worf's station was created. But if you compare background movement and work station placement from the first 2 seasons to shots shown with Worf on duty in OPS (and NOT occupying O'Brien's station), you can see some changes (which included at times a raised monitor).

Well, B'Elanna did mention that she had something installed in her that was altering her voice...that it was painful but she would manage. So there WAS some mentioning of that.

[Artistix]

Well, B'Elanna did mention that she had something installed in her that was altering her voice...that it was painful but she would manage. So there WAS some mentioning of that.

I recall that.

They just showed "The Killing Game" episodes on The Sci-Fi channel. That must have blown the budget for a long while with that one!

The Hirogen seemed to be a lot bigger when we saw them kidnap Seven & Tuvok earlier in the season (I think).

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

What would have benefitted Voyager IMO, would have been a whole new creative team behind the camera. I don't blame Rick Berman or Brannon Brega per se. I don't blame them for all that was wrong with it, and I don't even think Voyager is a BAD show. It was just more of the same, which was unfortunate since it had the potential to be so different, AND.. we'd seen it all before. Berman has a tremendous talent, but it seems that he or his superiors were unwilling to challenge themselves to re-invent the franchise and move it forward. THAT is really the root cause of the tone issue I speak of.

This is probably the most insightful summation of what was going wrong in the franchise post DS9. I cannot disagree with anything the Chimp says about VOY, and like he says, it wasn't a bad show. Pretty enjoyable in fact, it was just that there is always that nagging feeling that things could have been a helluva lot better...just like with ENT in fact.

[Cpt. Phil T. Berns]

Berman has a tremendous talent, but it seems that he or his superiors were unwilling to challenge themselves to re-invent the franchise

I cannot disagree with anything the Chimps says about VOY

Don't worry Jules, there's plenty of re-inventing coming our way.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

^^^If only there were a bit of reinvention.....but it's more likely a dumbed-down remake.

[Wildcard]

^I don't think it was a reinvention that was needed...it was an achieving of a higher standard that was close too or better yet above what the potential was. If that means being on a shooting schedule like the Stargates or BSG so that it allows more time for writers, directors, and editors to achieve a higher level of quality, so be it.

I still think that Star Trek should explore the made-for-TV-movie venue. Star Trek, regardless of the incarnation, seemed to have it's best commercial success on the small screen.

[Chalksquared]

As for the recovery...you have to remember that Crusher was in unfamiliar territory with the transformation of Locutus back to Picard. Her experience and several years of study by Starfleet Medical would have gone into the Doctor's programming, so there is a little bit of assumption we can make for the more rapid recovery. Not to mention his experience with and insights from 7of 9.

I remember being surprised that immediately after they were rescued that Janeway and B'Elanna had the exact same hairdos they had before being assimilated. I know, I know... the Doctor probably stimulated the hair follicles or whatever, but still... SOME sort of lingering effect would have been nice.

Also, was it just sheer luck that none of them had limbs replaced with tools and eyes that were both left in their sockets?!?

[Chalksquared]

While we are on the subject of "Unimatrix Zero"...

I am re-watching it right now (via Spike TV) and does anyone remember the Borg Queen saying, "We'll see you soon, Harry" to Harry Kim (he was on the bridge while Janeway was taling to the Queen on the viewscreen) and then he asked the crew "What did she mean by that?" and no one answered him.
Did we ever find out why she said that or if it meant something?

[JMW326]

I vaguely remember that. I have it recorded at home and will have to watch it agian. She could have just been playing with their minds and trying to instill a little fear into him.

[Chalksquared]

I vaguely remember that. I have it recorded at home and will have to watch it agian. She could have just been playing with their minds and trying to instill a little fear into him.

Perhaps, but my guess was that Harry was supposed to be on that away mission to the Borg ship and then for some reason it was changed and they just needed the scene as it was shot. It just seems so out of place for a show that is usually so well thought out. <shrug>

[knightone]

I think it was maybe a way the Borg Queen let them know that she knew exactly who and what kind of person everyone on Voyager was. Harry was the youngest and often the most easy to shake up. So she used that short, simple, and menacing statement to show them that she knew his name and knew enough about him to get into his head.

[TheHSBR]

I think it was maybe a way the Borg Queen let them know that she knew exactly who and what kind of person everyone on Voyager was. Harry was the youngest and often the most easy to shake up. So she used that short, simple, and menacing statement to show them that she knew his name and knew enough about him to get into his head.

I agree. I dont think much was being made about future storylines.

[Chalksquared]

I agree. I dont think much was being made about future storylines.

I didn't mean a future storyline per se... I meant the away mission to the Borg cube that took place about 5 minutes after she made the statement. <shrug> Oh well...

[Artistix]

Anyone seen these before...I had a good laugh. Plenty of Beltran quotes.

Not that I'm laughing at Beltran's problems with the show....just him calling the production staff "Crap heads"

http://www.firsttvdr...ff/beltran.html

I wonder if these are quotes from conventions??

And these were cool:

http://www.firsttvdr...ff/voyagen.html

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I wonder if these are quotes from conventions??

It says right at the top that they are computer generated "quotes". Likely they took transcripts from various conventions and interviews and strung them together. You'll notice that all of the quotes have the same 3 sentence structure. They replace key portions of the sentences from quote to quote like the episode name, or the name of the writer or producer he's bashing and that's about it.

I'd be curious to see some transcripts of conventions with him to know if he really has such predictable rants. If so, it would say more about him than anything else. Personally, I think all these gripes show lack of judgement on his part. If he was really so unhappy with the show, he should have left, just like Denise Crosby did. Obviously, it wasn't the best career move, but she thought there'd be greener pastures outside of Trek. Turns out she was wrong and regretted it, but at least she had the courage to take the chance.

Beltran, by contrast, just seemed happy to collect a paycheck and then essentially talk crap behind the backs of those people who were giving him the money. If he was that dissatisfied, he should have had the personal courage to leave and find other work. If not, he should have been a loyal member of the production team and not trashed the show publicly. I'm not saying he has to lie and say he loves it when he really hates it, but he could have declined to get involved in such carping and just remained essentially silent during Voyager's production while lobbying behind the scenes to make what he thought would be a better show. And when the show's over, you can discuss directions you would have liked to have seen the show go that didn't happen, either with your character or with others' characters. It would have been a much classier way to criticise the show without the assault on the production team's professional abilities, to say nothing of the fact that these might be people he'd have to work with again someday on other projects.

I think Beltran is, in a small way, one of reasons Voyager is so disliked. Consciously or sub-consciously he planted one more seed of discontent in the minds of the fans. "If the people making the show think it's crap, then how can I possibly defend it as something I like?" AND he made it harder for those who really did like it to defend it to those who didn't. If I were in Berman's shoes, I would have tolerated it for a while, tried to accomodate him somewhat by taking in his feedback and incorporating some of his ideas, and if that didn't pacify him, then kill off Chakotay in a dramatic season ender, promote Tuvok to 1st officer, bring in one of Tuvok's "deputies" as a new character if needed, and said good riddence, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Would that I were in such a position....

[JMW326]

I am a big fan of Voyager and could honestly care less what the actors that play the characters think about the show. Chakotay was one of my favorite if not my favorite character. I don't care what Beltran thought of the show or his personal views on anything. As long as the character is good they can rant behind the scenes as much as they want becuase it makes no differnece to me. Actors are pople just like us and have opinionson things that may not support what they are doing at the time. What it boils down is that is there job. They don't have to like everything about it just like we don't have to like everything about the jobs we do but we have to do them. The only difference is that because they do have somewhat of a celebrity status a lot of fans hang on every word and take it as a personal attack if they say anything negative.