83 replies to this topic

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

As a fan, I don't take his attacks personally, I just see them as unprofessional. If I were a producer, I would care very, very much. When actors attack their own show publicly, they're actively trying to lower the show in the eyes of the fans. To remove this from TV/Movie production... if I lead a company that makes widgets, the people that work for me can complain as much as they like about the widgets we're making, and about me, and about me and what I'm doing wrong as much as they want. I'd try to listen as dispassionately as I can to the arguments and try to evaluate myself and my company. It is quite another matter if those same people say to a CUSTOMER (i.e. the fans) "Our widgets stink. Chimp is a joke. You'd be a fool to want to buy from us, and you should demand better!" That's what I find objectionable about what he did... that he did it in front of the customers in an attempt (successful or not) to hurt the company. If said employee thought he was being ignored to that degree that he had no recourse to get my attention other than attack me with the customers, he should have left, not try to materially hurt my business like that.

Guess that's why I wouldn't make a good businessman....

[Wildcard]

Indeed the was a Cpatins Yacht on the Playmates Voyager. It may have also been mentioned in passing in one of the episodes.

Actually it was the Aeroshuttle. And it never got any mention onscreen to my knowledge. However in Star Trek: The Magazine and the starship spotter book, they both list the thing on the underside of Voyager (where the Capt's Yacht was on the ENT-D &E) as being the Aeroshuttle. There was also a "wave rider" shuttle on the underside of the Equinox that also served a similar function.

... if I lead a company that makes widgets, the people that work for me can complain as much as they like about the widgets we're making, and about me, and about me and what I'm doing wrong as much as they want.

LOL..Chimp, have you ever seen "How To Succeed in Business (Without Really Trying)"? If you haven't, then you need to after making that statement.

But you're right...I didn't like it when Jolene Blalock was doing it against ST:E either.

[Artistix]

I didn't like it when Jolene Blalock was doing it against ST:E either.

What was she saying?

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

^^^Surprisingly Jolene was pretty adamant about some of the things the producers were asking her as T'Pol to do. She seemed to really care about her character and was pretty outspoken even while the series was still in production. Jolene came across as having far more personal integrity and intelligence than did T'Pol. The point about Jolene was that in terms of screen time and adulation she had nothing whatsover to complain about, but her negativity seemed much more to do with the direction the show was taking as being insulting the intelligence of the fans. I seemed to remember that she was hugely outspoken about TATV and thought it was an unfitting end to ENT (I couldn't agree more!).

I've not seen much of Beltran grumbling (I thought Chakotay was a pretty uninteresting guy), but I have seen where Garret Wang has put the boot in because he didn't get to direct. The problem is that whinging actors come across as just that ~ even if they have something to whinge about. They should take a leaf out of Linda Park's book; she was a woman who had plenty to grumble about, but while she herself acknowledged that her character could have used more development and acreen time, this was always done with good grace and she never came across was a whiner. I left a message on her forum congratulating her for that.

[Wildcard]

^Well while that was how she was portrayed in certian lights, in others she came across as very VERY negative. In fact I think she called TATV "pathetic".

My problem with her wasn't in WHAT she was saying...it was the timing of it all. Jolene was saying this at the beginning of season 4's production schedule, which just added more fuel to the fire that was the looming cancelation decision. IIRC she didn't like the Trip/T'Pol relationship at all.

[Artistix]

I gather everyone agreed TATV wasn't a great ending to the Enterprise series.

Beltran wasn't a hugely interesting character...well, we WAS...but he wasn't...same as Kes...& many other characters in Trek.

My mother & older sister had a thing for Chacotay....they thought he was a hottie.
And he is a good looking man.

Perhaps I see every character as oozing potential...but you need good writers to explore this. Writers who really care about EACH character, not just a select few.

TOS was about Kirk, Spock & McCoy - I think I have heard that is Shattners fault with his line counting & what not. So it was rare we had the chance to see the other five step up.

TNG was more about Picard, Data & to a slightly lesser extent Worf.

DS9 was perfect.

Voyager became the Janeway, Seven & Doctor show.

Enterprise...I can't really comment...but it seemed Archer, Trip & T'Pol had most the screen time.

I can't blame the actors for feeling things didn't go as well as they could have, but I agree you should really keep your mouth shut...atleast till the show has wrapped. It does seem whiney to me as well, & very unprofessional.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

DS9 was perfect.

A lot of fans praise DS9 for being able to handle an ensemble cast of main characters and a cast of a second stringers with aplomb that kept the show fresh and interesting. In the light of this it seems odd that VOY and ENT went down the route of narrowing its focus down to a few characters. VOY started of well, but once 7 of 9 made an appearance things came slightly unravelled.

There wasn't a dull character in DS9, and even Morn had his day in the brilliant episode Who Mourns Morn?

[TheHSBR]

I think Ds9 had to do that because of it taking place on a space station. The writers with all the other shows could show up on planet X and have something happen. Here the station made it so that you had to have interaction between charcaters because it wasnt all military under starfleet. In Voyagers case I didnt mind focusing on a few characters. Developing too many characters IMO makes it a soap opera. At some point you want to keep it easy viewing so that new fans can jump in and not be bogged down by continuity. Thats why comic book have such a hard time staying alive, the continuity and over character development scare people away.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

I think Ds9 had to do that because of it taking place on a space station. The writers with all the other shows could show up on planet X and have something happen. Here the station made it so that you had to have interaction between charcaters because it wasnt all military under starfleet.

You know, I've never thought of it that way! Buy you are absolutely correct! DS9 kind of "imported" it's adventures in the form of characters visiting the station, the polar opposite of the TOS/TNG/VOY and ENT! However, I think the writers were aware of the limitations from the get-go and hence introduced the runabout (and later on the Defiant) and made a lot of Odo needing to seek out his roots with The Great Link.

[Wildcard]

^Actually the Defiant was introduced due to such harsh criticism from fans et al about everything ALWAYS happening ont he station. In their opinions, the show felt stagnate and didn't really go anywhere, thus how could it be called Star "TREK"? Berman got so fed up that by season 3 he finally said "Fine, here's your ship." Honestly, I think it was a wise decision. Although I hated that the runabouts didn't get more use afterwards (for some reason I like those things!).

@ thehsbr: Well, no offense, but I'd like to ffer up another view of why comic books are having a rough time. Video games and the internet have created a generation that is used to instant gratification and very little, if any, story line (do NOT tell me that Vice City and the sort have a decent story line!). They aren't comfortable waiting a whole month to see what happens in the next issue. I don't want to say that they don't have the attention span for it, but rather they've been conditioned to expect the answers more quickly and the long wait makes them feel either stupid or uncomfortable in a way that they're not sure or unwilling to learn how to deal with those feelings.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

^Actually the Defiant was introduced due to such harsh criticism from fans et al about everything ALWAYS happening ont he station. In their opinions, the show felt stagnate and didn't really go anywhere, thus how could it be called Star "TREK"? Berman got so fed up that by season 3 he finally said "Fine, here's your ship." Honestly, I think it was a wise decision. Although I hated that the runabouts didn't get more use afterwards (for some reason I like those things!).

That's interesting! I was rather out of the Trek loop when DS9 was being made and was just catching the odd episode here and there on Sky TV while we were living as ex-pats. I will say that DS9 always had the runabouts from the get-go, but I had no idea that Berman actually heeded the fans ~ would that J J Abrams was as receptive!

thehsbr: Well, no offense, but I'd like to ffer up another view of why comic books are having a rough time. Video games and the internet have created a generation that is used to instant gratification and very little, if any, story line (do NOT tell me that Vice City and the sort have a decent story line!). They aren't comfortable waiting a whole month to see what happens in the next issue. I don't want to say that they don't have the attention span for it, but rather they've been conditioned to expect the answers more quickly and the long wait makes them feel either stupid or uncomfortable in a way that they're not sure or unwilling to learn how to deal with those feelings.

You see, this is exactly what we are up against these days. Yesterday, as I was buying my daughter school shoes I was treated to the way in which we are making the next generation of teens spoiled, vaccuous dullards who will quite simply be inacapable of waiting more than a couple of seconds for anything! Gone are the days when I was expected to wait my turn sitting beside my mother to get fitted for shoes. The children's department of Russell & Bromley has two giant TVs playing the selection menu from a Spongebob Squarepants DVD. Some snot-nosed brat was blowing talc out of some fake cigarrettes while his heifferish mother looked on, and some rat-faced little tyke was vacantly thumbing a portable PSP. Gone are the days when long car journeys meant listening watching the countryside rush past while listening to adult conversation, the radio, or if we were really lucky a cassette (parents' choice of music naturally!). Nowadays you can buy in-car DVD players with screens that strap onto the back of the front headrests so the little darling need not be devoid of entertainment. Kids can't walk down a pavement to school sensibly any more; their bovine mothers allow them to threaten other pedestrians through letting them ride their silver scooters beacuse even the smallest necessities of life have to be fun.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but you're actually right in saying that kids don't have long attention spans anymore. They don't because they aren't encouraged to because overworked, overwrought parents have to salve their consciences by throwing expensive gadgets at their kids because they can't/won't give them the time needed to develop their kids intellect and..........patience! No wonder kids start school unable to dress themselves, go to the toilet, and can barely talk. Comics will become a thing of the past ~ you need to be able to read to appreciate those, and even those kids who are basically literate will expect the ending to be revealed first!

[Sgt. Stinky]

That's interesting! I was rather out of the Trek loop when DS9 was being made and was just catching the odd episode here and there on Sky TV while we were living as ex-pats. I will say that DS9 always had the runabouts from the get-go, but I had no idea that Berman actually heeded the fans ~ would that J J Abrams was as receptive!
You see, this is exactly what we are up against these days. Yesterday, as I was buying my daughter school shoes I was treated to the way in which we are making the next generation of teens spoiled, vaccuous dullards who will quite simply be inacapable of waiting more than a couple of seconds for anything! Gone are the days when I was expected to wait my turn sitting beside my mother to get fitted for shoes. The children's department of Russell & Bromley has two giant TVs playing the selection menu from a Spongebob Squarepants DVD. Some snot-nosed brat was blowing talc out of some fake cigarrettes while his heifferish mother looked on, and some rat-faced little tyke was vacantly thumbing a portable PSP. Gone are the days when long car journeys meant listening watching the countryside rush past while listening to adult conversation, the radio, or if we were really lucky a cassette (parents' choice of music naturally!). Nowadays you can buy in-car DVD players with screens that strap onto the back of the front headrests so the little darling need not be devoid of entertainment. Kids can't walk down a pavement to school sensibly any more; their bovine mothers allow them to threaten other pedestrians through letting them ride their silver scooters beacuse even the smallest necessities of life have to be fun.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but you're actually right in saying that kids don't have long attention spans anymore. They don't because they aren't encouraged to because overworked, overwrought parents have to salve their consciences by throwing expensive gadgets at their kids because they can't/won't give them the time needed to develop their kids intellect and..........patience! No wonder kids start school unable to dress themselves, go to the toilet, and can barely talk. Comics will become a thing of the past ~ you need to be able to read to appreciate those, and even those kids who are basically literate will expect the ending to be revealed first!

Bravo! Bravo! Jules

You just said it all. It is so bad here in the U.S. that a school in one of the northeast states (I can't remember which one) banned kids from playing tag at school for fear the would get hurt and a parent would sue the school. When I was a kid, unless it was an absolute downpour (and sometimes that didn't even matter) we were always outside playing. If you got hurt no one thought of suing anyone. We played with our toys outside(my Mego Treks spent many adventures in my backyard), or horror of horrors, we used our imaginations and made up stories to play out usually Star Trek related with me as the good Captain Kirk. If we got hurt doing something we learned not to do that again. Finally when my parents said no that was the end of the discussion (besides if I wanted something that's what Grandma was for

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

You just said it all. It is so bad here in the U.S. that a school in one of the northeast states (I can't remember which one) banned kids from playing tag at school for fear the would get hurt and a parent would sue the school.

It was an elementary school in Attleboro, Massachusetts. If you ask me, their brains were more "attled" than their boro..

Yes, I'm from the state where that happened, sad to say.

[Chalksquared]

The University of CT just finished a study and they observed that two thirds of elementary school kids, when given 15 minutes of free time/recess (without their handheld games and cell phones), didn't know how to play or what to do with themselves because games like tag and such not have gone the wayside due to video games and TV.

I remember being in 3rd grade and my friends and I would play Voltron and our biggest problem was how the five of us "lions" could form one big Voltron. We thought about standing on each other' shoulders and such not, but then someone suggested that when it was time to merge, Billy Dukes could just be the big Voltron robot while the 5 lions took a break.

I know, I know... "back on topic"

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

...........ah but this is such an in teresting discussion!

I actually noticed the sea-change in how kids spent their spair time in 1982 when I was working as an assistant housemistress in a girls' boarding school. I was looking after around 40 girls from ages 5-11, and it was the time when the very first hand-held games (Donky Kong and Pacman!!!!) were becoming available and these materially priveleged girls were bringing them back from the holidays. I used to watch the kids play, and if they could be enticed outside at all, they seemed to be lost without 'props'. I remember the day when all you needed was a playground and about five kids ~ and although I blush to admit this now ~ five litttle girls meant five ***cough, cough*** Osmond Brothers! Yeah, enbarassing I know, we used to play the Osmonds, but the thing is we had to mime our actions and took frequent pauses to plan our next bit of game, and woe betide anyone who walked through an officially designated invisible wall! Today, if you stick five kids in a playground with nothing in their hands and they'd probably spend the entire breaktime staring blankly at each other!

Having less meant we had no choice but to use our imaginations more. No wonder I did so much art and writing when I was a kid. And here's another thing: kids don't have any "adventures" any more. In the good old days before health & safety, when derelict buildings and building sites were fenced off, an empty property was an invitation to thrilling adventure. I was living on a housing state that was still being built, and there was a deserted farm nearby that it took us days to get into the farmhouse ~ we had hours of fun there and we weren't vandals, just kids having a good (unsafe) time! We used to go off on our bikes for the entire day with two jam sandwhiches and a bottle of coke. Our mothers never really knew where we were and there were no mobile phones back then to check up on us. We all had Timex watches and it was a case of woe betide us if we weren't back by the designated time. I almost lost an eye playing with home-made bows and arrows.

Nowadays it's as though no one dare let their kids out of their sight. Kids seem to spend every spare minute in a car being ferried from one improving activity to another. I passed my cycling proficiency and went everywhere on my bike, but there were less cars around then. It's a shame because if kids had real adventures, a lot of these video and computer games wouldn't seem half so exciting.

[Sgt. Stinky]

Ahh Adventures...We use to explore along the railroad tracks that ran alongside the street I grew up on and play under the highway overpass. Fortunately my Mother didn't find out until I was well in my thirties and out of the house.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

^^^We lived close to the main Bristol to London line, but the example of a boy who had been killed playing on the track served as a sobering example to the rest of us. Mind you, the lurid verses and (probably false) speculations about the tragedy went on for years afterwards.

[Artistix]

Just saw 'Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy'...& I have to say it was a very enjoyable episode. Think I've only seen it once or twice before.

I came in slightly late, just when all the main women were hitting on the Doctor in the briefing room!!

Seven - "I need the Doctor in astrometrics"
B'Elanna - "Why???"
Seven - ".................that is none of your concern!"

Brilliant scene....definately Voyager's best for comedic element.

I really liked the look of the aliens in this episode too.

The Doctor: (sung to Tuvok and crew to the tune of La donna

[TheHSBR]

Absolutely one of the best Voyager epsidoes ever! I might even go as far to say that it was my favorite Star Trek episode ever too! Towards the end of the series The Doctor became my favorite star trek character. I just wish the Voyager relaunch could have kept going so I could see the continuing adventures of the Doctor.

PS. I also thought it was a nice touch to include the Doctor at the Borg Invasion LV 4d Experience!

[Chalksquared]

Absolutely one of the best Voyager epsidoes ever! I might even go as far to say that it was my favorite Star Trek episode ever too! Towards the end of the series The Doctor became my favorite star trek character. I just wish the Voyager relaunch could have kept going so I could see the continuing adventures of the Doctor.

PS. I also thought it was a nice touch to include the Doctor at the Borg Invasion LV 4d Experience!

I didn't like him at first either, but towards the end I loved him. I think it was because of his and 7 of 9's scenes together. He is one of the few character ornaments I hang on my tree (which went up last night).

Also... I was thrilled to see him again in the Borg Invasion. More thrilled to see the other Voyager cast member (so as to not ruin it for those who have not been).