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Being Negative as a sign of superior fandom...


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#1 Prometheus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

So I am watching 'The People vs George Lucas'...and one of the people being interviewed brings up a fascinating concept: In a twisted way some people may actually complain about the thing they love most ie Star Trek or Star Wars because they are trying to demonstrate their knowledge or fandom is superior. Thus : They allow themselves to actually destroy the thing they care about. I find this interesting as I listen to some comments made by people in different forums.... Some people just have to complain to feel happy even though they truly are loyal fans of whatever genre or specific title it may be.

I personally see this negativity in more and more subjects like toys,films, various hobbies.... and when one person chimes in it becomes like a shark feeding frenzy. I find this sad.

#2 Prometheus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:39 PM

BTW.. I agree with people that have legitimate concerns....Its just when people seem to be negative for the sake of being negative that I get concerned....

#3 TheHSBR

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:58 PM

I also find the converse to be sad when people simply cheerlead for the sake of protecting their precious fandom.

#4 Prometheus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (TheHSBR @ Feb 14 2013, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also find the converse to be sad when people simply cheerlead for the sake of protecting their precious fandom.

Thats a legitimate concern.....but Ive never seen anyone hurt by an over abundance of optimism. I think we are still growing as an 'internet society'....I feel that sadly it seems much easier for people to be negative than to be positive....but this is an age old debate.

#5 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:41 PM

I agree a million times over and honestly we've been seeing that A LOT on this board lately

#6 FHC

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

While each PM I sent out this morning has parts that are unique to each person that I sent it to, they do share a common part and I

#7 Destructor!!!

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

Well said, FHC!


#8 Exelion

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Prometheus @ Feb 15 2013, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So I am watching 'The People vs George Lucas'...and one of the people being interviewed brings up a fascinating concept: In a twisted way some people may actually complain about the thing they love most ie Star Trek or Star Wars because they are trying to demonstrate their knowledge or fandom is superior. Thus : They allow themselves to actually destroy the thing they care about. I find this interesting as I listen to some comments made by people in different forums.... Some people just have to complain to feel happy even though they truly are loyal fans of whatever genre or specific title it may be.


I found the official Startrek.com forums to be a prime example of this when Enterprise was airing, the petty whinging over trivial things about the show, Star Trek cannon, Akiraprise, etc got very tiring to the point where I won't look at that board ever again. I do feel there was a lot of fans wanting that show to fail purely over some warped perception that is Enterprise died somehow Star Trek would be protected.


A bit off topic but, negativity can be useful too, particularly when it comes down to something someone is going to buy with their hard earned money. Purely singing the praises of the stuff we buy, DVDs, toys, games etc doesn't fix problems, it doesn't let other readers make an informed purchase, and it doesn't even help the company making the product either. TNG season 2 Blu-Ray maybe a good example of this, the pretty overwhelming negative fan feedback from that set has meant that the company in charge of season two won't be returning for season four or six, negative fan feedback made a positive difference.

On the subject of negativity on here, due to unexpected expenses (trip to Australia) I can only afford one DST ship release at the moment, the positive and negative feedback on here made my decision quite the bit easier; I've chosen the BOP over the B. So all the people who pointed out what was great about each release, and their faults, I thank you, as you have allowed me to make an informed purchase.


#9 Tyjos Azari

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:34 PM

If you think it's negative on Star Trek, just check out the Transformers Fandom.....you can go over to TFW2005 and see what I mean in those areas devoted to the Movies and Transformers Prime.

Just a lot of negativity now these days I've noticed it too....sad thing I suppose...the Anime fandoms are quite bad about this at times it seems as well...Gundam a main one that killed my interest in most of the boards I used to be on. I still watch the series and don't see why people bitch so much about it...same thing for Star Trek I'll watch Enterprise every so often now these days...don't see what's so wrong with it to cause a lot of complaining.

#10 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

THANK YOU FHC! I thought I was the only one on here that was actually vocalizing my dislike for the negativity.

There is a difference between Negativity and constructive critisim, Negativity is like "OMG they put that legal info right on the damn ship, it looks so freakin horrible i wont buy this ship unless i can remove it blah blah" on the other hand there are ways around that just by simply stating "DST didn't quite choose the best place for the legal info in my opinion and hopefully they hide it better next time"

It really is all how someone states something that determines the mood of a post ya know. I said the exact same thing just without the negative attitude

#11 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

Wow, I thought we were adults on here....shows how grown up some of us are, not putting any names out there but I tried to send a personal message to one of the more "negative" members on here saying hey bud ya know try and keep a positive attitude and I got cussed out. You know who you are...REAL MATURE for a 40 year old!

#12 BadBunnyMike

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Exelion @ Feb 15 2013, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On the subject of negativity on here, due to unexpected expenses (trip to Australia) I can only afford one DST ship release at the moment, the positive and negative feedback on here made my decision quite the bit easier; I've chosen the BOP over the B. So all the people who pointed out what was great about each release, and their faults, I thank you, as you have allowed me to make an informed purchase.


Showing the Positives and Negatives about something is awesome and we totally like to see that here, it is the people that do it with negativity and the attitude about it. I mean there are some newer members here that have like 20 posts on this board and like 18 of them are bitchin and complaining about things, those kind of people have got to go, then you have some of the veterans on here, myself, Kor, HSBR, and many more... these guys all know how to voice a negative thing about the ship without the bad attitude attached. I mean it is all how you come off, and some people just come off as ass*****, that solves nothing...all that does is make you, me, the toy comapny, whoever ignore that person so that doesn't help anything

#13 FHC

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

I assume that we are all 18 + here. If any of you are not 18, or cannot be an adult, then please ask your mom or dad if it's ok to read further. I use mild profanity in the proceeding paragraph.

I have found in my 45 years on this planet that most all (not all to be fair) people that say the phrase "I'm a straight shooter and I tell it like it is" are trying to justify being an a-hole when they hit you with solicited and even unsolicited opinions. If you know that a person is a "straight shooter type" and you ask anyway, you are partly to blame for the verbal assault of which you are about to receive. Still, it's one thing to say to old grammy when she asks if her new hat looks nice, "I don't know grandma, I think a smaller hat with more blue would suit you better". It is quite the other to go into "straight shooter" mode and say, "OMFG what the hell were you thinking putting that steaming pile of "batshit insane" critter on your head", but hey why use decorum when you can shoot straight? Her feelings might be hurt, but good or bad, you are now the talk of the party.

A sign of superior fandom? Mmmmm maybe, maybe not. I'll leave to better minds then mine to discuss the social mindset of the person that has always felt the need to yell FIRE in a crowed theater. I'm sure that there was a caveman telling the other cavemen why a certain kind of stick was better.

One of my favorite quotes in life did not come from some great poet, if came from Lando from the TV Show Babylon Five,

"The quiet ones are the ones that change the universe... The loud ones only take the credit."

#14 Wildcard

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (FHC @ Feb 17 2013, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"OMFG what the hell were you thinking putting that steaming pile of "batshit insane" critter on your head",
roflmao.gif


QUOTE (FHC @ Feb 17 2013, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of my favorite quotes in life did not come from some great poet, if came from Lando from the TV Show Babylon Five,

"The quiet ones are the ones that change the universe... The loud ones only take the credit."


What I've learned in my 35 years of screwing up is that you can be a "straight shooter" while still maintaining a sense of diplomacy. I believe in calling a spade a spade, but I don't have to degrade myself in order to do it.

I've also learned that sometimes it's ok not to win an argument especially over personal opinion. If that opinion is based on faulty or incomplete information, then that may be one thing. But opinions are personal and individual.

And finally, having worked in education and mental health, those "straight shooters" are usually trying to compensate for something in some way. It may be that they're insecure about something, or retaliating against perceived attacks, or redirecting anger.

Regardless, I think it's important to retain a sense of decorum and respect especially when dealing with hot button topics that ensure such passionate responses.

#15 data_2006

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

Good to know you care, I also have been only glancing at the forum for the past three months, but it sounds like things are getting better so maybe should spend some more time here smile.gif


QUOTE (FHC @ Feb 15 2013, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While each PM I sent out this morning has parts that are unique to each person that I sent it to, they do share a common part and I

#16 FHC

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

Thanks you Data 2006. I'm glad to see you here.

#17 Jay K

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:41 AM

Fascinating topic Prometheus, and apologies if I'm bumping an old thread by the way, but I just wanted to chime-in. I completely agree with you, and another area especially that I've seen this rampant-negativity become a problem, is video games. I'm a big gamer, and I used to enjoy posting on various game-related forums (neogaf was one of them), but honestly, I just can't do it anymore. I lurk, and subscribe to threads to keep up to date with the latest news etc, but I just can't bring myself to post anymore because I know my 'happy/excited' post will either be ignored, or picked apart by others who want nothing more than to tell me I'm an idiot. It's sad, but I'm fortunate in that I've become friends with about 20-30 guys over the last decade, and I made a forum where we could all post and discuss the latest news etc - and it's wonderful. Membership is restricted (I allow new people in, but I always let a forum-vote decide new members), and any subject is fair game. As an aside to this, my brother recently had one of our oldest members come stay with him whilst he was on holiday from Australia. Together with some other members from a place local to us (Manchester), we had an amazing few days together 'lanning', talking, and getting drunk. It was as if we'd be friends in real life for years, really good.

Anyway, back on topic: I've never given that much thought as to why people are so down about everything nowadays, but I've always assumed it was to come across as 'cool' in some twisted way. This theory/explanation you've posted, seems to fit the bill perfectly, and I'm grateful that you made this thread for that reason. For instance, when you guys make your review videos, I get a kick out of hearing your excitement. It's nice to know that there are others out there who're the same as me - ready to be happy, excited, even giddy first, yet be concise but not over the top with your criticism.
And that's the point in a way; we must not mistake genuine critique for negativity. A random example of something I think we can all agree on, would be that the copyright marks on the ships lately aren't great (Enterprise-E Pylons, Enterprise-D Saucer); although not outright terrible, they haven't been done in a way us nerdy Trekkies would like, especially when they've been done perfectly before. I know there's other issues (gaps, names, smudges, weathering), but that's stuff that we all seem split on. I personally don't like gaps, whereas others think I'm daft for looking in that place on the ship to begin with, or they think they might not be as big as they seem in the photos, but that's something that bothers me. Others are pissed off about the Enterprise B's pennants on the secondary hull. I personally don't care that they say Excelsior, and are backwards on one side, as I won't be able to read the text on it anyway - but others do, and that's fair. It's only when for one thing, the rest (which is probably spot-on, and gorgeous) is disregarded, and the whole thing is branded as awful, that it goes too far for me - it becomes childish.
So what I'm trying to say is, I don't mind people having a moan about something - it's when it's taken too far (e.g. this thing is wrong, therefore the whole ship and DST are a joke) that it irks me. It doesn't bother me, it just irks me, as I don't really want to get involved with people who're that 'young' (whether they actually are, or not).

A random thing I saw the other day which did just that, was found as the result of a search I performed on Google. I was looking for the page on Art Asylum's website which showed how to apply the neck decals to the Enterprise-D. I'd seen it years ago, when I first got the ship, and forgot to bookmark it (I didn't know how to go about ordering them, and it wasn't really a priority anyway - thus I forgot). I mistakenly searched for Diamond Select though, and thus initially had no luck. However, it did turn up something else entirely!
The search query I used was, 'diamond select toys decal application' - linked here for ease: https://www.google.c...cal application
The first result at the time (now second on the list), made me howl with laughter, yet also cringe massively. There are many times when I'm sure all of us have been labelled 'sad' - whether jokingly by mates and girlfriends/partners, or by strangers who think Star Trek = anorak-wearing basement dwellers..! But viewing that first (though as of time of writing, now second) link, the only thought I had in my head was 'how utterly sad'. Not in the upsetting way, but rather the more 'pathetic' way. It seems the only pleasure that can be had by some people, is to tear into the things they seemingly love, which is what the topic of this thread nails so completely.
So yeah, to sum up (because I've just now realised how big this post is), good thread and theory, Prometheus. smile.gif

#18 FHC

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

The negativity here has reached a point that I am not happy. Once again I sometimes dread to visit my own forum. Some here, just beat and beat an beat the horse to death. If you are like me and you read all the threads, as I do, it's thread after thread of beating to death what is a toy. and yes it is a toy. It's page after page, post after post. You get almost afraid to say you like this thing.

At some point in my collecting I decided that I was not happy with a AA/DST Phaser. I'm not going to go though the list of what's wrong, but to a prop replica collector, it's a lot. So, I saved my money and I bought this



and that is not a role play item, but it cost 10X as much.

I'm not sure that I am going to renew the forum in April to be honest.



#19 Jedigreedo

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

I still feel like things are getting better. But, if you decide to not renew then it's been a good run and I've had a lot of fun here, so I thank you for having created it. smile.gif

#20 data_2006

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

Hi

I do hope you'll renew as this site is one of the best places to get info on new releases, as well as some great reviews. I do agree that the beating a dead horse sometimes goes a bit to far but nonetheless think it did get better the past few weeks.

As a collector of almost anything Trek I can relate to the price -> dept of quality you are reffering to and as for the toys part I respectfully disagree these are all collecting grades replica's smile.gif (if for no other reason that I do not want my wife givcing any of them to my 2 year old to play with if it would be toys wink.gif )




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