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#41 Artistix

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 06:37 PM

hsbr makes a good point.

I guess I don't think about that as much. It is never good for children to think that violence against women is cool. You don't want little Timmy smacking his sister over the head with a guitar! But that's why parents are really supposed to help their children understand what is happening, especially in regards to pro wrestling.

Too much is blamed on TV, & not enough on some parents lack of proper guidance.

I wrestle women regularly...& they are some tough ladies. God help you if you go easy on them! they don't like that one bit.
But it's never the goal in pro wrestling to actually hurt people. I am careful with everyone I fight.

Above all, these gals I wrestle, & ladies like Traci Brooks, Jackie Moore, Trinity, Beth Phoenix etc. don't want to be treated like women!!

They're here to fight....thats what they do. Whether they are in a singles match against another woman or getting power bombed by a man, they are doing it to show everyone 'Hey, we can do this too...we're just as tough as any of the fellas!'. I think censoring them is a form of repression.

Besides...what is Jarretts guitar made out of....cardboard?? laugh.gif

#42 TheHSBR

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 07:39 PM

You walk a very fine line with men on women violence. Women wanting to compete with men is one things, but even that can look very bad on tv. Most of the violence on women in wrestling is not in the area of compettiion. Its men taking of women and proving that they are stronger. Women in the end receive no benefit from the angle and only the man receives a bigger heel response. What do the women get for taking the bump? Do they make more money? Are they put in the main event? Rarely and more than likely never. They are used as a means to get men over. Never in wrestling has this not been true. It has nothing to do with the actual danger involved, it has to do with women being portrayed as being a thing that can be constantly taken advantage of by men. What if one of the wrestlers attacked and raped one of the divas backstage as a storyline? Would that be acceptable?

Another point is look at the way many of the male wrestlers actually treat the divas. Randy Orton has been fined many times for his treatment of the divas. Does being able to beat them up on tv make his actions more acceptable in his mind? In my opinion this is a definate yes.

I have never seen an attack on a woman benefit the woman wrestler in any way. Until it does, I say stay away from it. You open yourself to too much criticism from critics.

#43 Artistix

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:15 PM

Perhaps you are right.

A few months ago, on ECW, when Mike Knox dumped Kelly Kelly & hit his finishing move on her...that was pretty aweful. In fact they cut to an audience member for the actual bump here in Australia. I eventually saw it on Youtube.



And even Abyss hitting his finisher on SoCal Val was horrifying!
(If you want me to get rid of that, just say so)


That really wasn't necessary. And even for shock value, people know the Divas can fall over, something like what happened on ECW or TNA is not likely to shock people too much anymore, but rather taint their perception of the reality of the situation.

Is woman on woman violence really any more acceptable? Should man on man violence be seen as acceptable?

Is it acceptable to have the bikini contests & Diva search contestants shaking their arses for the crowd?

A few million people watch pro wrestling a week...I have always thought it should be more important to put across better messages to the viewers...but pro wrestling is rarely pure...in any way. I don't really consider it 'kids viewing'...it sure doesn't seem to be!

Vince McMahon is a morally corrupt person. I'm sure you've heard he's in legal battles with Dawn Marie after firing her due to her pregnancy!! Not to mention his colourful past of duplicity & deceipt.

I don't think we can ever expect too much from the industry. It is what it is. But, for the greater good, I think you are right...the overuse & glorified man on woman violence needs to be toned down if not stopped.

And don't get me started on Randy #*@? Orton. biggrin.gif

#44 Will Riker

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 07:59 AM

QUOTE(Artistix @ May 18 2007, 05:15 AM) View Post
A few million people watch pro wrestling a week...I have always thought it should be more important to put across better messages to the viewers...but pro wrestling is rarely pure...in any way. I don't really consider it 'kids viewing'...it sure doesn't seem to be!

Vince McMahon is a morally corrupt person. I'm sure you've heard he's in legal battles with Dawn Marie after firing her due to her pregnancy!! Not to mention his colourful past of duplicity & deceipt.


As long as Vince is in charge, moral corruption will reign supreme. Lets not forget this is a man who thought it was entertaining to make a storyline based on necrophilia, as well as someone who last year wanted to be involved in an incest storyline with his daughter

But i don't want to turn this into a Vince bashing thread. I'll balance out the bad with some good, to show his heart isn't completely cold. Lets not forget that he paid for Bam Bam Bigelowe's funeral, and he continues to keep Vickie Guerrero employed (even though i'm dreading the rumoured upcoming storyline, which i won't spoil for anyone who deosn't know...and if you have read it, you know what i'm talking about *shakes head*) so that she has a means to continue to support her kids

#45 TheHSBR

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 09:45 AM

The wrestling in the ring can always be justified as competition. One of the main problems with any beat downs that occur is that the beatdown is usually glorified and sometimes even cheered. I agree that its not for kids and it probably hasnt ever been for kids. My main point is that these types of situations are way overused. It can understand it happenening once ina while to get a heel over as a monster but it just doesnt seem like thats the case in how its being used these days.I also dont think that using it once in a while makes it any better but at least the company should put it over as a deplorable and cowardly act which I also think a poor job is done.

#46 Artistix

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 07:58 PM

Stephanie McMahon is apparently going on a firing rampage. Rob Conway, Scotty 2 Hottie, Angel Williams & Ariel are some of the victims.

I can't believe they fired Ariel....that shocked the hell out me...& I hope to crap she still receives her action figure.

Rob Conway has always been a good worker for WWE.

I had thought Angel Williams was going to be the next 'it' girl for WWE's womens championship. I don't know of any girls more talented from OVW. Really sad news.

There will be more cuts to come. Possibly to make room & money for the new Diva Search (Grrrrrrrr).

sad.gif Not good...not good at all!


***

Apparently Ariel said something to Batista at this weeks Smackdown taping. He didn't like what she had to say. He went & cried to his pals Stephanie McMahon & Triple H. Ariel is no longer employed by WWE.

Ok...now I officially HATE Batista.

#47 Will Riker

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 01:13 AM

conway, vito, scotty and mitch were just part of wwe's annual 'spring cleaning'. i feel sorry for them, but it's what wwe do every yr around this time (and artistix, you and i both know its to free up space for the damn diva search!)

ariel's firing is a bolt from the blue - she must've done/said something really, really bad. its a shame, becuase she was unique among the divas - unique look, unique gimmick, and she meshed so well with thorn

i feel rally bad for scotty tho. i thought he had a job with wwe for life, he's been there so long. val venis must be quaking in his boots now

but worse than all these firings...gregory helms is out for a year! DAMN!

wwe really dropped the ball with helms. once his cruiserweight title run was finished, he really should've gone into the US title hunt. i can only think his de-push was as the result of the steroids thingy a few months ago. altho i think he really started going downhill once he changed his entrance music lol. the current one he has is so rubbish compared to his old one, which i thought was pretty cool

#48 pickard

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 12:06 PM

Not a big viewer of wrestling anymore, but I follow this thread regularly. (It's more entertaining than most of what's on TV lately.)

First of all, let me say that I deplore men who hit women in real life. I'm the father of two girls, plus I've got a wife, a mother, and a sister. Men who hit women are scum.

That being said, I don't really have a problem with man-on-women violence in wrestling. These are just stories, and that type of thing is an appropriate plot device. A male character on a network show I watch regularly smacked his wife in the season finale we watched last night. Was it nice? No. Did it serve its purpose? Absolutely. He's a confirmed bad guy now. There's no ambiguity. He crossed the line there. (And this is someone who has already murdered people. smile.gif )

In real life, if the female workers want to take the hit, more power to them.

I don't really care terribly about what kids might make of that sort of violence on WWE, because kids shouldn't be watching WWE. There's so much other horrible stuff on there. It's not like the 80s. I watched WWF when I was in elementary school. As far as I can control, my son will watch WWE maybe when he's in high school, if not later or never.

As to the IC belt, I loved when that title meant something. I remember when my favorite wrestler, Randy Savage was the IC champ and he warred with the likes of Tito Santana and others. Those were awesome battles. At some point, he graduated to the main event and others (Honky, Ultimate Warrior) fought over the belt. I generally enjoyed the IC battles more than the main event stuff.

Since we're talking wrestling, here's one of my favorite memories, me and a friend meeting the great Kurt Angle back in 2001:

That's the US title belt. He lost it that night to Edge. (BOO!)


#49 Will Riker

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 04:45 PM

Dammitdammitdammitdammit DAMN!!!!

The greatest sports-entertainer of all time, at least as far as i'm concerned, Shawn Michaels has a serious knee injury. This sucks. Apparently, he's gonna gut it out tomorrow against Orton. I just hope and pray he doesn't make it any worse than it already is, altho this is reminiscent of Taboo Tuesday 2004

Cool pic, Pickard. i'd love to meet Angle - if only to smack some sense into him (well, actaully i wouldn't cos he'd beat the crap out of me...lol) 2001 was the yr of Anlge wanting hugs from and singing to Vince, vying with Austin for Vince's affections, right? I miss the 1999-2001 Kurt, the milk-drinking, nerdy, goody two-shoes Kurt. I thought he was funny. I actually met Foley a few weeks ago at a book signing - he's a really nice guy. And last yr i met Bret Hart at a DVD signing. That was awesome.

#50 TheHSBR

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 09:22 PM

the top stars are just dropping like flies. With Sabu gone and RVD on his way out all three brands are seriously lacking in top name talent. Im always skeptical about jumping guys to the main event when they arent ready. In the past you could always hire some top guys but right now who is out there that the WWE could bring in to supplement the top names?

#51 Electricbolt

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:19 PM

No one available except for maybe some of the old WCW guys that are wrestling in the Indy's perhaps.. but none of them are the big names that they need.

Found this at some news site a few minutes back: "With WWE staging the 4th Annual Diva Search a little later in the year, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if further cuts are made to make room for new signings that are bound to be made from the final stages of that competition. As talented as the likes of Williams and other developemental talents are (Nattie Neidhart, Katie Lea, Beth Phoenix and Krissy Vaine immediately spring to mind), it’s clear to see that while the likes of Kelly Kelly and Brook are being pushed by the company, if you’re a good female wrestler under WWE contract, you won’t be getting pushed any time soon."


So I hear TNA is negotiating with Spike TV for a 2 hour timeslot this fall (although they've been 'negotiating' for the better part of the past year).


So what does everyone think of the Steiners reunion?

#52 Will Riker

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:06 PM

so rick's back? i haven't seen last week's impact, but i remember scotty hinting it the week before. if so thats awsome. i've seen a handful of early-90s steiner bros matches, and i vaguely remember them tagging 1999-2001 in WCW (i was a kid at the time)

i swear WWE better not fire Nattie Neidhart or i'm going to be more annoyed with WWE than i already am. I still want to see a Hart Foundation reboot of some sort: Teddy Hart, Harry Smith, Nattie Neidhart (ideally managed by Bret, but that would never happen)

Altho, to be honest i just want Harry Smith on the main roster, period. WWE could have an awesome British stable: Regal, Taylor, Birchill and Smith. Regal and Taylor as the tag team (and mentors to the other two), Smith as the midcarder who shoots for IC gold, and Birchill as the main-eventer (from what i've read he can carry the company for yrs to come).

i can dream...

#53 Artistix

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE(Electricbolt @ May 21 2007, 04:19 AM) View Post
it’s clear to see that while the likes of Kelly Kelly and Brook are being pushed by the company, if you’re a good female wrestler under WWE contract, you won’t be getting pushed any time soon."


sad.gif

I %#$@ hate the Diva search.

What happened to Tough Enough? Did WWE decide they only wanted more female talent or something??

Stephanie was supposed to be the one to bring back proper womens wrestling. It appears she cares about it as much as her father.

#54 TheHSBR

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:41 PM

tough enough pretty much has been considered a failure. The only wrestler still with the company is johnny nitro but i beleiev he came into the show with expereince. the only other are nowitski and josh who are announcers. Pretty much everyone else couldnt cut it. Im not so sure the diva search is responsible for the cuts every time around this year. They usually only sign 3-4 girls most of whom are gone within three months anyway. The 250 thousand dollar contract is money that is chump change for the WWE. One issue I have with the search is the time it takes up but honestly with the crap theyve been putting out lately it might be the highlight of the show....

#55 Electricbolt

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE(Will Riker @ May 20 2007, 06:06 PM) View Post
so rick's back? i haven't seen last week's impact, but i remember scotty hinting it the week before. if so thats awsome. i've seen a handful of early-90s steiner bros matches, and i vaguely remember them tagging 1999-2001 in WCW (i was a kid at the time)


I discovered this video on TNA's site, so I'm assuming they are (also considering the content of the video).



#56 Will Riker

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:04 PM

thanks for the link EB

that looks like its gonna be pretty cool. can't wait! from what i've seen of them, the steiners were a decent tag team (of course, before scott 'beefed up' lol)

#57 Will Riker

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 03:52 PM

Looks like HBK will be out until November *cue Ron Simmons*

this is a sad day for wwe, and for me personally

and EB, that clip you found is the last scene of last thursay's impact!, so it looks like the dog-faced gremlin is back!

#58 Electricbolt

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:37 PM

I just learned earlier tonight that Jill Jarrett, wife of Jeff, lost her battle with cancer this morning. She was diagnosed with cancer in the late 90s, so she fought for nearly 10 years. Truly a sad moment for the wrestling world.

QUOTE(TNAWrestlingNews.com)
Several sources related to Southern independent wrestling report that Jill Jarrett, the wife of Jeff Jarrett, lost her fight to cancer earlier this morning.

Jill Jarrett's funeral will take place tomorrow May 24 at the Hendersonville Church of Christ on Rockland Rd. in Hendersonville, Tenn. Family visitation will be tonight May 23 at the Hendersonville Memorial Gardens and funeral home in Hendersonville, TN.

Condolences go out from all of here to Jeff Jarrett and to the Jarrett family.


#59 Will Riker

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 11:08 PM

damn, i feel so sorry for Jarrett

his comeback speech on impact! a few weeks ago actually got to me a little bit

#60 Artistix

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 04:46 PM


Thats terrible news for the Jarretts & their families. It seems everyone is effected by cancer in some way nowadays.

I wish Australia showed Impact tapings...I gather that is the same thing at Raw & Smackdown each week?




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