Jump to content


Photo

What if Kes had Stayed?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Shinzon

Shinzon

    Action figure anonymous member

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 17 July 2007 - 02:27 PM

I am sitting at home rewatching the Gift today on Spike, thinking the development of Kes' telekinetic powers. The growth of these powers, etc. was actually quite incredible and quite honestly I found upstaging my interest in Seven's storyline. I know that in time 7 of 9 developed into a really interesting character, but I still think it is a pity that Kes had to be eliminated. Had she stayed, the interaction between the two of them could have been great as well.

Stupid People magazine, had to declare Garrett Wang sexiest man or whatever...

#2 JMW326

JMW326

    If I don't have it, they never made one.

  • Members
  • 4,836 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 17 July 2007 - 02:43 PM

I never ever liked Kes as a character. Even after going back and watching all of the episodes again I still could not learn to like Kes. I will admit that her character did start to grow into something a little less anoying by the time she left and who knows I may have actualy learned to like her if she had stayed but I don't know. In all fairness though I found Seven very over used and only good for one thing which was eye candy. I am a realy big Voyager fan but I think I would have been an even bigger fan if those two would have been cut down to guest appearances and not given any realy big parts to play.

#3 VulcanFanatic

VulcanFanatic

    Leonard Nimoy fan

  • Members
  • 3,165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern North Carolina

Posted 17 July 2007 - 03:15 PM

Kes was never my favorite character and the Neelix/Kes relationship was always strange to me as well. Kes was like a small child in Ocampa years, like 1 or 2 years old or something like that, and it made me look at Neelix like he was a pedophile or something. The jealousy thing with Neelix who thought Tom was trying to steal Kes away was dumb and i never liked those storylines.

#4 Artistix

Artistix

    Trek Toy.com Member of the Month Feb 2010

  • Members
  • 2,696 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 17 July 2007 - 04:48 PM


You won't find many Kes fans around Shinzon...but I really liked her....& Neelix!! laugh.gif

#5 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

    I can stop I just don't want to.

  • Members
  • 710 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Hampshire

Posted 17 July 2007 - 05:01 PM


QUOTE(VulcanFanatic @ Jul 17 2007, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kes was never my favorite character and the Neelix/Kes relationship was always strange to me as well. Kes was like a small child in Ocampa years, like 1 or 2 years old or something like that, and it made me look at Neelix like he was a pedophile or something. The jealousy thing with Neelix who thought Tom was trying to steal Kes away was dumb and i never liked those storylines.


I never thought about it like that... but you're right. Ocampa were supposed to only live 9 years, so assuming human-like percentage of time as a develped adult, then 1 Ocampa year = 8.5 years, approximately, depending on what you judge to be the average lifespan of a human is, meaning if she were two, she'd have been a human 17, at the OLDEST... ewww... maybe she was 2 and a half? It was so blatently obvious what they wanted to do though that it was almost dumb. Put a 2 year old Ocampa on Voyager so that when the 7 years is up, she's about ready to die... if you want her to. Just add water, and you have ready-to-eat INSTANT DRAMA!

#6 Artistix

Artistix

    Trek Toy.com Member of the Month Feb 2010

  • Members
  • 2,696 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:05 PM

QUOTE(VulcanFanatic @ Jul 18 2007, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and it made me look at Neelix like he was a pedophile or something.


Dear God man!!! blink.gif

Her age is relative...& hopefully soo many years in the future, people are not still soo rediculously hung up on age differences.

If Demi Moore wants to rock Ashton Kutchers socks off....so be it.

If that millionaire who married Anna Nicole wanted some fun in his twilight years...then good for him!!

Sorry...we've hit a personal note here!! I should shut up.

#7 Shinzon

Shinzon

    Action figure anonymous member

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:39 PM

haha I was never a "huge" fan of the character Kes either, I found myself liking her in this final episode having these interesting telekinetic powers, found that story more interesting than a Borg trying to return to the collective, might just be my tastes.


#8 Chalksquared

Chalksquared

    New Forceaholic

  • Members
  • 812 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Connecticut
  • Interests:Reading, writing, performing (on stage), drawing, and collecting anything (24th century) Trek.

Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:37 PM

Well, apparently I am in the minority for liking Kes... in fact, Kes being my favorite character on Voyager in the first 3 years.

As for the whole pedophile thing with Neelix... a human's brain matures at 21. An Ocampa is an adult at 1. The End. We have to stop putting everything in human terms. Open your minds, people...


#9 Artistix

Artistix

    Trek Toy.com Member of the Month Feb 2010

  • Members
  • 2,696 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:51 PM


Isn't this "Everything else" section meant for all other action figures?

Pretty sure this belongs in the "Random Thoughts" area....& will be our third topic discussing this young Ocampa!! biggrin.gif

#10 FHC

FHC

    Owner

  • Owner
  • 4,495 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:27 AM

QUOTE(Artistix @ Jul 17 2007, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Isn't this "Everything else" section meant for all other action figures?

Pretty sure this belongs in the "Random Thoughts" area....& will be our third topic discussing this young Ocampa!! biggrin.gif


Right you are, topic moved since this is not about a Kes figure of any kind, but a topic about Voyager really.


#11 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

    I can stop I just don't want to.

  • Members
  • 710 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Hampshire

Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE(Artistix @ Jul 17 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Her age is relative...& hopefully soo many years in the future, people are not still soo rediculously hung up on age differences.


I for one certainly hope NOT! First, I fail to see the relevance of the examples. Both Anna Nicole and Ashton Kutcher were over 18 when those relationships began. This isn't about Demi Moore being 20 years (roughly) older than Kutcher, it's about over-age and under-age individuals. Under-age people haven't fully developed the cognitive abilities to necessarily make informed choices. That's why age of consent laws exist, to prevent older people from praying upon those who are easily manipulated. Now the law has to draw a line somewhere and we can all debate on whether 18 is the appropriate age for that line, but if Kes was developmentally a 17 year old (regardless of the age of the actress) then Neelix IS a pedophile, at least by today's standards, which is made worse by the fact that they had probably met before she was two since this relationship had presumably been going on for some months before the events of the pilot.


::: Chris Hansen walks through the mess hall doors ::: Do you mind explaining yourself?

Neelix: Um, eh um, who are you?
CH: I'll get to that in a minute, but first I'd like to ask you some questions...
N : Um, eh, what sort of ... questions
CH (voiceover): I'd met a lot of individuals, but none compared to "TalaxianTreat69"
CH: I have the transcripts right here. You call her, "Kes, my sweet" Is this appropriate conversation? You ask her "have you ever seen someone with spots before?" and "Do you like latex?"
N : But, but, these are latex makeup prosthetics....

#12 Gothneo

Gothneo

    Knows Paul Bunyan

  • Members
  • 5,753 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of sky Blue Oxen

Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:51 AM

I think Kes was a character ment to give more interaction with the Dr. as she spent most of her time in the sick bay with him. We saw this continue with 7 of 9, but not quite as much. For me that was part of the problem. Kess was almost a secondary cast member, existing merely to give Picardo more screen time/lines etc.

At least that's the way the character came off to me.

Plus I agree. Kes was supposed to be intimately involved w/Nelix, yet they rarely seemed to interact in that manner. It was an awkward setup.

#13 WORF22

WORF22

    It's not a disease it's a hobby.

  • Members
  • 1,894 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N.J.

Posted 18 July 2007 - 02:44 PM

Kes fan!!! she was hot, but she could not stay with her power the show would have ended. if she could throw Voyager 10 light years the next ep 10 more the show would have bin over.

#14 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

    I can stop I just don't want to.

  • Members
  • 710 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Hampshire

Posted 18 July 2007 - 02:57 PM

QUOTE(WORF22 @ Jul 18 2007, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kes fan!!! she was hot, but she could not stay with her power the show would have ended. if she could throw Voyager 10 light years the next ep 10 more the show would have bin over.

Ahh, they coulda found a way around that if they REALLY wanted to, even if it means something as cheesy and unoriginal as Kes's little ability was slowly weakening the structural integrity of the ship, or some such...

#15 Gothneo

Gothneo

    Knows Paul Bunyan

  • Members
  • 5,753 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of sky Blue Oxen

Posted 18 July 2007 - 03:02 PM

Was it only 10 light years? That seems like a small distance in the Trek Universe. Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to us, is 4.7 light years away... so that would be like going the shortest distance and back...

Wait I found it in the trek archives... it was 9,500 light years!

#16 Wildcard

Wildcard

    Yes the Troi figures hair worries me.

  • Members
  • 1,033 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 July 2007 - 03:14 PM

^Yep...she actually took nearly 10 years off their journey.

QUOTE(Gothneo @ Jul 18 2007, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Kes was a character ment to give more interaction with the Dr. as she spent most of her time in the sick bay with him. We saw this continue with 7 of 9, but not quite as much. For me that was part of the problem. Kess was almost a secondary cast member, existing merely to give Picardo more screen time/lines etc.

At least that's the way the character came off to me.

Plus I agree. Kes was supposed to be intimately involved w/Nelix, yet they rarely seemed to interact in that manner. It was an awkward setup.

Well you're sort of right there, but not exactly. Kes AND Neelix were supposed to be the "eyes on humanity" characters....voices with witch the writers could comment on human nature and society from an "outside" point of view. However the Doctor ended up being one of those voices as well...so when you divide up the responsibility of say Worf and Data's point of view in a story line and apply it to the Voyager cast, there wasn't enough to warrent Kes, Neelix, Tuvok, B'Elanna AND the Doctor.

However I too am one of the minority of Kes fans. She was one of my favorite characters and could have easily developed into so much more. I always thought of her as the ship's impromptu conselor...not in the sense of psychologically analyzing everything...but in the sense that she was the good friend, the kind spirit that anyone could talk to and use as a sounding board for their problems. Granted a good bartendar could do this (i.e. Guinan), but since Neelix was more of the morale officer than bartender, Kes could have filled this role.

And, I thought there was potential to do more with her developing powers in a way that was never really done with Wesley on TNG *dodges fruit being thrown*

If she had stayed, I think that there was potential for a lot of interaction between her and 7of9. Most of the "lessons on humanity" learnings would have come from Kes, not the Doctor (althouh in a way, they really DID come from Kes since she was the one who helped the Doctor adapt to humanity's complexities).

#17 Artistix

Artistix

    Trek Toy.com Member of the Month Feb 2010

  • Members
  • 2,696 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 18 July 2007 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE(A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees @ Jul 19 2007, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I for one certainly hope NOT! First, I fail to see the relevance of the examples.


Well what do you think I was aiming at Chimp...I said this was kinda personal...when I was 18 I had a thing for a 27 year old which people thought was wrong....not illegal, but wrong. hence why I said I was taking this personally...but not in the way you are pushing.

I was not thinking of Kes as a 17 year old...my mistake. The pedophilia angle is yours & VF's...I was referring to a couple of an adult age..which is pretty obvious from the two examples I gave. How you can fail to see the relavance in this thread is boyond me.

Perhaps you should have asked exactly WHAT I meant...

Do you honestly think I was promoting petophilia???



#18 slayerone76

slayerone76

    Guinan's love slave!

  • Members
  • 2,718 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgetown, TX
  • Interests:Stately playboy by day ... profitable pimp by night. I like to watch movies, listen to music, go out ... friends ... food ... all the essentials of life.

Posted 18 July 2007 - 04:58 PM

I will agree to disagree with the pedophilia remarks. Kes was not human. Her species does things differently than ours. Even if we were to relate her condition to human standards, there was a time in human history when marriage and child bearing occured in the early-to-mid teen years for many people. That was the acceptable practice back then, even if the reasons (ie. money and wealth) were not justified.

Kes and her people had to mature early and be more 'humanly' adult a lot earlier than us. If I only had 9 years to live, and matured like her people did, I woulda been a little more slutty around the age of one or two as well.

#19 FHC

FHC

    Owner

  • Owner
  • 4,495 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 July 2007 - 06:31 PM

OK I think that the Kes was young has ran it's course. Lets move back to talking about if her staying on the show would have helped Voyager be a better show.

#20 Gothneo

Gothneo

    Knows Paul Bunyan

  • Members
  • 5,753 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of sky Blue Oxen

Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE(Wildcard @ Jul 18 2007, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kes AND Neelix were supposed to be the "eyes on humanity" characters....voices with witch the writers could comment on human nature and society from an "outside" point of view. However the Doctor ended up being one of those voices as well...so when you divide up the responsibility of say Worf and Data's point of view in a story line and apply it to the Voyager cast, there wasn't enough to warrent Kes, Neelix, Tuvok, B'Elanna AND the Doctor.


Ahh! Thanks. I had not thought of it from that perpective. I can agree... especially when you look at the fact she was replaced with 7 of 9... who as a human, who lost her humanity can comment on humanity while trying to reclame it.

Each of those that you mention has a different take. B'Elanna: 1/2 human struggles to integrate humanity (much like Spock) The Dr. gives the technologies view (much like Data), Tuvok the well acquianted alien view, and Neelix and Kess both had the same "Getting to Know you" take.

In the end though, with such a short life-span, I'm surprised that Kess wouldn't have moved on sooner rather then later.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users