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Star Trek Lower Decks Animated Series Announced


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#21 MisterPL

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:08 AM

Well... ok... they were all commercial successes... but most real fans weren't that impressed with most of those last attempts.... which I guess is my bigger point... if they can make money on it they don't really care about the quality.... and theres no coherent plan.

 

Quality is subjective. And let's please not get into who "real fans" are. Let's just agree that this was never a charity.



#22 MisterPL

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:32 AM

When people say that the JJTrek movies renewed interest and that translated into Discovery I wonder where the proof for this assertion is. It seems to start from an assumption that Discovery's audience needed their interest renewed and I don't buy it.

 

Overall, ratings for the TV shows dropped significantly since TNG. Enterprise barely made it to a fourth season. The box office for Nemesis was the worst of the franchise at its time (and still is). Trekkies were literally dying off.

 

Star Trek either brought in new fans or resurrected all the old ones. It brought back characters even the uninitiated were most familiar with and gave them a jumping on point that didn't require watching 725 episodes of television and 10 feature films to catch up.

 

OR Abrams' Star Trek is simply much better than certain fans give it credit for.  B)



#23 Gothneo

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:37 PM

When people say that the JJTrek movies renewed interest and that translated into Discovery I wonder where the proof for this assertion is. It seems to start from an assumption that Discovery's audience needed their interest renewed and I don't buy it.

 

I don't see a connection there either... I guess thats why I don't think they have a bigger overall, integrated plan with these different offerings.

 

 

Quality is subjective. And let's please not get into who "real fans" are. Let's just agree that this was never a charity.

 

I was just expressing an opinion... so, please don't get stuck on my "folksy jargon"... I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying... and no... Trek is not a charity... but that wasn't what I was suggesting... many fans right here on this board, and otherwise, connect to the Trek franchise in ways that are very meaningful to them... and when large changes are made many fans take it very personal. 

 



#24 MisterPL

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:09 PM



I was just expressing an opinion... so, please don't get stuck on my "folksy jargon"... I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying... and no... Trek is not a charity... but that wasn't what I was suggesting... many fans right here on this board, and otherwise, connect to the Trek franchise in ways that are very meaningful to them... and when large changes are made many fans take it very personal. 

 

Forgive me for being an old-school, nitpicking Trekkie.  :D

 

Believe me, I understand the investment fans have in whatever they enjoy. However, the fandom is divided enough. I'd rather focus on what we have in common than what separates us or how some fans are more genuine than others. I'd rather use more descriptive terms like "long-time" than "real."

 

The past couple years have shown me that there are folks who enjoy Star Trek merely on the surface. They don't dig deep. Good for them (even though they seem to freak out more than others).

 

There are also those who treat it like a college course, studying every single aspect of the franchise, from concept through production and beyond, as an entertainment property and a business.

 

Plenty fall somewhere in between. We have our favorite incarnations, our favorite settings and casts. We argue over canon but it's just friendly banter.

 

We all get different things out of it and when that overlaps, we've got a community like this one dedicated to collecting toys based on Trek.

 

I guess what bugs me are assumptions that "most real fans" don't like [fill in the blank] based on what we read in this bubble, dismissing all the fans who made [fill in the blank] successful because they're not like us.



#25 Gothneo

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:05 PM

Yeah... that was just rhetoric... feel free to ignore it any time! I don't take it personally!

 

Honestly, there is nothing like going to a Trek convention and hearing testimonies from people for whom, A show like VOY or DS9, is really the only thing that anchors them. Yes its nerdy, and maybe depressing or sad in someways, but it does drive home how the franchise really connects with some people and what it means to them. 

 

so I can understand why they may feel crushed to have something thats bitterly keeping them sane get skewed... I would hope that they may get other help... but heck in this country some people get there mental health from reality TV, and others get it from things like Trek... its not my place to judge them. 

 

So instead of taking my "real fans..." blah blah blah too literal... when I say something like that just look at my avatar and think something like "Fans that believe Large Blue Oxen are a real thing believe...."   and see if that helps! Because yeah we all have a slightly different perspective and I'm never trying to speak for all fans... just the ones that believe in large blue oxen  :P  ;)



#26 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:24 PM

Are there really Star Trek fans that came to the fandom through jj Abrams awful movies? That's hard to believe.They have no real substance to them, they are just big budget action movies that try to profit from some of the best of moments of past Trek but only end up committing sacrilige in many Trek fans eyes.If there are any fans that came by the movies, it's probably because they saw one of the newer movies and we're curious about older Trek and actually discovered real Trek in the process. If the Audience has dwindled ever since TNG, it's because every incarnation since has gotten farther away from true Star Trek. Even the TNG movies moved away from it. If there is ever going to be a way to unite fans again, it's to get back to the original formula. We don't need Spock and Kirk, we need real Star Trek.

#27 Gothneo

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:24 AM

Lol... "we need real Star Trek"... so I think MisterPLs point is precisely that you can't stick a pin in a definitive "Trek" anymore because it does mean something so different to so many. 

 

Not that your wrong by any means, you have a clear idea of what it means to you... and in no way would I negate that opinion... but I think when you say "real Star Trek" you'd like more of the Roddenberry formula, which to him, TNG was simply just the continuation of TOS... but to me I'd like more in the genre of DS9, chichis to say I like the continual serialization format DS9 brought, tat was to an extent continued on in ENT and then really done in DISCO. 

 

​Have the newer movies brought in new fans? I Dunno... I'm sure there are some, and honestly regardless of what we personally think of DISCO... I do think if you started out Trek Fandom being introduced by JJ's movies, DISCO would hook you... in fact DISCO has plenty of action and I think is better than the JJ movies as it has more time to develop characters... I guess I'm suggesting that its possible for younger fans to be introduced to Trek through the new movies and for that fandom to be nurtured through newer series rather than the Roddenberry, Berman, and Braga eras. Because these days though there is soooo much to choose from on streaming services... that I could see where newer fans might not even have the time to go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY or ENT and would prefer to just stream new content. 

 

​Maybe another way to gauge peoples interest is to look at what kind of conventions they go to these days... Star Trek Conventions did get an uptick from the movies... but seems to have died back down to a few long time staples... Popular culture events are still strong and get a cross mix of everything including trek... 10 years ago Xena and even Stargate  conventions were a rage, but those have died down now there are a ton of conventions for "Super natural".  

 

To get back to the topic then I guess maybe part of the question is will all the new media... including this new animated series garner more fans that translate to interest in more Trek specific events? Or even more interest in Pop Culture events?



#28 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:28 AM

Real Star Trek garnered lifetime fans, the newer incarnations are only something someone might see and forget about shortly thereafter.I think the reason the conventions started so long ago was that there was a common vision among fans who saw a future they liked and longed for in Star Trek. After TNG, that vision gradually became darker and less appealing to fans and so the fan community has gotten smaller and smaller.Until they bring back that bright future of TOS and TNG, then this show will never attract the following it once had.Paramount and CBS are killing it themselves.

#29 MisterPL

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 02:03 PM

Lol... "we need real Star Trek"... so I think MisterPLs point is precisely that you can't stick a pin in a definitive "Trek" anymore because it does mean something so different to so many.

 

Personally, "real Star Trek" is not TOS. That's NBC's Trek, a corporate compromise. "The Cage" is real Star Trek and it's what Roddenberry modeled TNG after, right down to another Number One.

 

 

 ​Have the newer movies brought in new fans?

 

 

When you look at the box office ranking for the last three films, even adjusted for inflation, it's hard to argue that Star Trek hasn't gained fans thanks to Abrams' movies.

 

 

To get back to the topic then I guess maybe part of the question is will all the new media... including this new animated series garner more fans that translate to interest in more Trek specific events? Or even more interest in Pop Culture events?

 

 

Time will tell. I'm sure once we see art from this series, existing fans will argue over its merit as usual. That doesn't mean it won't hook new fans based on their own tastes.



#30 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:09 PM

Say what you will but it was TOS that built a juggernaut of a following of diehard Trekkies, it wasn't the "Cage". I don't see any real difference between the Cage and the rest of TOS and since it was integrated into TOS, I don't even see a real point there to your comment. The huge fan movement was started by TOS, grew by leaps and bounds through the 70's and 80's and even more with TNG. The decline began with DS9 and has continued throughout each new show or movie after TNG.The reason is they departed from the formula that worked. It was bigger than Spock and Kirk but core elements have to stay the same for it to work. They can keep making new shows till doomsday but until they get back to the right formula, it's going to fail to inspire and create more real fans that will endure another 50 years.




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