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New Star Trek Series starring Patrick Stewart


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#241 Alteran195

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Posted 15 October 2022 - 02:59 PM

If Picard hadn't been a complete shit show that's barely watchable, I'd be more excited for season 3. But Idk if I want to see them butcher more TNG characters. Only good thing about it is the canonizing of the Odyssey Class Enterprise F. 



#242 Destructor!!!

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Posted 26 October 2022 - 05:46 PM

I feel the same anxiety, Alteran. I feel like I'm ready to cordon Picard off in my head canon as just an imitation of Star Trek if season 3 doesn't deliver the god-damn goods. I have limited faith in Matalas to turn this ocean liner around.



#243 MisterPL

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 11:14 AM

Picard has already overcome death. Dealing with endless pessimism is another thing.



#244 Whirlygig

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 03:39 PM

It's fun to read theories about what the plot might be now that we've seen decent trailers.

 

However, sad to say, the people steering the show pull zany, untested, dumb ideas out of left field as if they've got no idea what we want to see, or what makes a good Trek story, other than that Picard has to be in it.  When in the past 2 seasons has any sort of sensible plot that a fan could have come up with (or contributed to) taken place?  Never.  Not once.

 

So as cool as some of the theories I've read here and elsewhere would be, I'm sure they'll do something completely bonkers that leaves us trying to justify this crap all over again.

 

But I wait eagerly to be proven wrong!!!



#245 MisterPL

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Posted 16 February 2023 - 02:51 PM

I really want to like Season 3 but after the first episode...

 

Does anyone else find the music just awful? I know we're desperate to play on nostalgia with these final entries but please stop recycling themes so poorly. The end credits were downright cringey.



#246 Alex

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Posted 19 February 2023 - 10:17 PM

So I’ll preface this by stating that I have not watched any of Seasons two or three yet, but I literally went to look at TVs on Monday so I’m hoping to change that soon. I have watched select clips from the series though, and I am familiar with the plot (or lack thereof) of Season two, and am fully prepared for it to be a mess.

If Picard hadn't been a complete shit show that's barely watchable, I'd be more excited for season 3. But Idk if I want to see them butcher more TNG characters. Only good thing about it is the canonizing of the Odyssey Class Enterprise F. 

I would agree if we were talking about season two and what I’ve read about it, but having watched season one in its entirety, I really don’t think it’s fair to lump that in with season two which even on paper comes off as, well I’ll be nice and say “chaotic” at best.

 

I feel the same anxiety, Alteran. I feel like I'm ready to cordon Picard off in my head canon as just an imitation of Star Trek if season 3 doesn't deliver the god-damn goods. I have limited faith in Matalas to turn this ocean liner around.

Destructor, what was wrong with season one? I actually felt that it made plenty of sense and was both fascinating and coherent; it was the follow up to Nemesis I had been waiting for. As far as season two goes, once I have a new TV I plan to get through it quickly in the span of a week or two and hope I don’t regret watching it. If anything I feel the way you do about DSC more than I do about Picard, mostly because the former has proven it can’t put together a competent plot while the latter has done so at least once in my opinion, and appears to be doing so again.

 

I really want to like Season 3 but after the first episode...

 

Does anyone else find the music just awful? I know we're desperate to play on nostalgia with these final entries but please stop recycling themes so poorly. The end credits were downright cringey.

I’ve seen a couple other people have this complaint, but only about the way different themes from different eras are being mashed together, namely calling out the space dock sequence. I actually did watch a quick clip of that and honestly liked what I heard there, but that’s because the TWOK theme is kind of synonymous with space dock in my mind thanks to TSFS. I watched the ending credits in their entirety and I honestly don’t have a problem with them; they literally just used the First Contact theme with a new recording and no modifications. And no, that’s not a mash–up of the FC and TNG/TMP theme, that’s literally how the First Contact theme played at the end of the film. (As in a verbatim copy of it, no change to how or where it transitions, it’s the exact same theme from that film.) I went back and checked the soundtrack again earlier today.

 

I actually love the ending theme precisely because it’s the FC theme, and if it’s true that the ending is loaded with Easter eggs (and it appears to be, I caught several and YouTube reviews caught even more,) the music could be hinting at something as well. (Possibly related to the Enterprise–E? Information that was publicized in the run up to the premiere said that the E’s last mission was “Classified” and we already know there are Borg references this season.)



#247 MisterPL

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Posted 21 February 2023 - 03:01 PM

... that’s literally how the First Contact theme played at the end of the film. (As in a verbatim copy of it, no change to how or where it transitions, it’s the exact same theme from that film.)

 

That's my problem with it. The way that TNG often lifted existing footage from films to save money (E.g. 1701-D in the STIII spacedock) is what the music department seems to be doing here. I'd rather hear a composer's cover of it than the same exact track I've been listening to since 1996. 

I loved Jeff Russo's Picard theme for the first season but found his variation on it in the second season disappointing. Stephen Barton and Freddie Wiedman feel more like music managers in this season's first episode than original composers but I'm certainly willing to be pleasantly surprised as the show progresses.



#248 Alex

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Posted 02 March 2023 - 09:54 PM

That's my problem with it. The way that TNG often lifted existing footage from films to save money (E.g. 1701-D in the STIII spacedock) is what the music department seems to be doing here. I'd rather hear a composer's cover of it than the same exact track I've been listening to since 1996. 

Ah, in that case we're after two different things in terms of the music; it sounds like you're looking for an updated take on the existing themes, whereas, at least for Picard Season 3, I'm looking for the themes to be reused as–is. If we were talking about another Trek series I would be more interested in new arrangements and even outright new material, but given how season three's entire theme is basically TNG, I'm happy with what they're doing. I think the criticisms I've seen from others, usually related to the use of TOS/TOS Movie–era music cues is more focused on the criticism that "they don't sound like TNG/they sound of place for the era of Picard," than it is the fact that they're reusing them outright, which I would consider to be a separate criticism. I would also point out to these people, especially the younger/newer fans who I've found aren't always aware of this, that the TNG theme itself was literally the TMP theme, effectively making it a TOS "Movie Era" tune from the get–go. I guess that's why the space dock music doesn't bother me; to me we've been doing this in some capacity since September 28th, 1987, and we'll probably do it again in a few decades with new cues created for earlier seasons of Picard, as well as the other current shows.
 
To be fair, I should also note that I had no issues with the Enterprise–D in the SFS spacedock either, as it seemed perfectly logical to continue using it in–universe, even if the practical reason was cost–cutting.
 
I should also add that most of what I've read related to the music has been largely positive; hell, even the YouTube comments section seems to be happy with it! (I mean, we're talking about the YouTube comments section not only being sane, sober, and civil, and doing so without a member of the Q continuum snapping his fingers, but being outright positive about something. I consider that "impressive" to say the least.) I'm not saying the criticisms aren't valid, and I do understand why this route has its detractors, I'm just not one of them.

 

Having said that, I have to wonder why they bothered to rerecord the themes in the first place if they're just using them as–is. It's not like Paramount doesn't have access to the original recordings, nor do they lack the rights to said recordings; if anything, it'd cost them more to recreate them than to use what they already have, so it's not like they're cutting costs or necessarily saving time by doing this. I actually think one reason they might not be trying to alter the iconic themes here could have to do with the generally negative reception that previous attempts have been met with in Trek and elsewhere. For example, DSC's music was criticized from day one, especially because of the twist on the TOS theme not feeling like it "fit" with the rest of the theme. Outside of Trek, Rogue One drew a similar criticism for leaning on iconic Star Wars scores and then veering off wildly in its own direction that didn't feel like it fit with the iconic themes. (I personally found this more annoying in Rogue One specifically because of how much effort went into trying to make this film feel like it genuinely was made before ANH, whereas DSC's entire attitude has been "screw it, we'll just do whatever" visually and audibly.) At a technical level, the sound mixes from the TOS Movies should already be 7.1 channel recordings, which I believe is the same as Picard, so I don't think they're re–recording for technical reasons; it's not like TOS where the master audio recordings were limited to stereo sound and they literally had to rerecord it for TOS–R to have more than two channels. (The TNG Movies had 5.1 channel recordings, those actually might have been re–recorded for technical reasons, but I can't imagine that they couldn't just remix what they already had to fill in the two additional channels if they wanted to.) I really think the composers just wanted a chance to work with the iconic themes as–is and took it.
 

I loved Jeff Russo's Picard theme for the first season but found his variation on it in the second season disappointing. Stephen Barton and Freddie Wiedman feel more like music managers in this season's first episode than original composers but I'm certainly willing to be pleasantly surprised as the show progresses.

I'm kind of excited to hear the season two arrangement of the theme when I finally watch the show now just to hear how it changed from season one. I really loved Jeff Russo's season one scores, so I'm wondering if I'll have a similar reaction.



#249 Alteran195

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 07:37 PM

Just got around to finishing episodes 1-9 of season 3, holy shit what a drastic change in quality. Season 3 has been fantastic, some of the best new Trek weve gotten,

#250 MisterPL

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Posted 20 April 2023 - 05:29 AM

I recall the final episode of Enterprise being described by producers as a Valentine to fans. It ended up being a slap in the face to its audience. As predictable as it was, the final season of Picard was an apology.

 

When The Next Generation moved immediately from television to feature film, the transition handicapped the cast by not giving them the benefit their predecessors had enjoyed; pent-up demand. As tedious as The Motion Picture was, it was still satisfying as the reunion fans had craved for over a decade and left audiences wanting more. And with the return of an old foe, The Wrath of Khan delivered what is still considered to be the best entry in the franchise while introducing a promising new generation of characters.

 

Generations was hampered with not only introducing a new villain responsible for killing off Star Trek's (if not pop culture's) most popular captain, but delivering a story worthy of cinemas only six months after The Next Generation's episodic series had wrapped. There was little question of "Where are they now?" since it never felt as if they'd left. This crew's maiden voyage to the silver screen was also a letdown but, like its predecessor, this incarnation relied on an old adversary to get fans excited about a follow-up with First Contact, arguably the second most popular Trek film.

 

Picard showrunner Terry Savalas certainly knows his stuff, not only the lore of Star Trek but its history. He knows what works and leaned into it from the very beginning of this season. From borrowed music cues and heavy-handed exposition (less like Easter eggs than blatant spoilers to the initiated) this was a comfortable, enjoyable ride with few surprises and plenty of satisfying feels. As the final episode came to a close that reeked of shameless nostalgia, one would barely have time to ponder where Savalas might go next before the unsurprising answer presented itself.

While a spinoff seems inevitable, hopefully it will feel fresher and less recycled.



#251 Whirlygig

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Posted 25 July 2023 - 01:17 PM

Picard S3 worked, sort of.  It was still quite a ways from perfect, but it beat S1 by a mile and S2 by a country mile.  Raffi should have just been written out IMO.  On the Ready Room they have talked about how the writers are all major fans now --- I feel like sometimes that shows through in negative ways such as trying to make every single line Worf utters into a punchline.  Worf now even seems fully aware of it; originally he had no sense of humor and now he's "grown" into a self-parodying standup comic?  When his Klingonisms were more sparse and came out of nowhere, they hit harder as comic relief; now they seem excessive and predictable.  The characterization of Worf is probably my biggest problem with S3, followed by several that are more forgivable.  Also felt like they drew out the "mystery" of Jack a few episodes too long.






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