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#1 Gothneo

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:11 PM

Looks like 1st sneak peak reviews are in for the Orville...

 

and.. oh my... is all I can say :-( 

 

But... this is only one critic... and some of the negatives sound like positives to me!

 

As with anything, I'll watch for myself and decide!



#2 s8film40

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:44 PM

That actually sounds really promising and I've had a feeling all along the show would be less slapstick than many people might assume. Just because it's a comedy doesn't mean it can't have some serious themes and get into some good sci-if.

#3 1701D

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:44 AM

Really? What review were you reading?!?

It wasn't really unexpected. The Orville is trying to be Star Trek. People are expecting comedy and parody and what they'll get is an homage to Star Trek: The Next Generation.

That's fine in principle but the world has moved on from the 80's/90's and The Orville is kind of too little too late and not Star Trek to be doing something that only Star Trek can do.

In the other corner, you do have Star Trek and the same problems exist, you're creating a Star Trek show that goes too far in the other direction away from what Star Trek is popular and famous for doing. The question at the end "how do the women get from wearing that blue jumpsuit to mini skirts in 10 years" should tell you all you need to know about the problems facing Discovery; how do you explain that this is a show that is supposed to exist in the same universe as a show from the 60's - like The Orville will confuse its viewers over what that show is focused on being, Star Trek: Discovery will confuse its audience too; when is this series set because it looks nothing like TOS!

#4 Gothneo

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:26 AM

1701D I put the link to the review in the thread! 

 

The critics were apparently given an advanced preview of the first three episodes. 



#5 1701D

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:40 AM

1701D I put the link to the review in the thread! 
 
The critics were apparently given an advanced preview of the first three episodes. 

I saw, I agree with you Goth, it's as I expected - I mean sure if the comedy falls flat or that it's an awkward viewing experience that doesn't know what it is then it'll be seen as confusing, not as comedic as most people expect and an uneaven balance between drama and humour is not what you expect to see when watching a Seth McFarlane production. It's fart jokes, riskay dialogue etc... he is though very tuned into issues that effect the world today and because of that I think he'd be great as an executive on an actual Star Trek show.

McFarlane is doing a Star Trek show. The only problem is, is that it isn't Star Trek and so people aren't going to be expecting something serious from a parody nommatter how hard McFarlane tries to convince us that it's not a parody, it's a comedy/drama. McFarlane has made a name for himself doing Family Guy and that's what we expect to see when we see him. He's typecast.

Now give this guy a genuine Star Trek show that he doesn't appear in himself but produces and I reckon it could be really well received. Lord knows Star Trek needs a bit of levity and comedy mixed with drama.

#6 Alteran195

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:56 AM

Im not terribly excited for The Orville anymore, after the second trailer and this review it’s about what I’ve come to expect.

I’ll still be watching it on the 10th, and hoping to be wrong, but I’m not expecting much.

#7 MisterPL

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:47 AM

I'll give it a chance but my expectations have been managed appropriately. This isn't so much a Star Trek parody as it is "Galaxy Quest, Too."



#8 Gothneo

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:03 PM

I'm hoping they quit focusing on trying to be something else... do their own thing and fill the void that McFarlane has acknowledged exists for sci-fi shows... something more optimistic with a message.  



#9 s8film40

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:32 PM

Yeah, that's what I was hoping it would be is a more optimistic sci-fi show with some comedy. I think the critics were expecting it to be 90% comedy, and i assume were thrown off because it had more story. It appears from the trailer to have as much or more story than Discovery. I think that's a good thing and can work with comedy.



#10 1701D

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:52 PM

Yeah, that's what I was hoping it would be is a more optimistic sci-fi show with some comedy. I think the critics were expecting it to be 90% comedy, and i assume were thrown off because it had more story. It appears from the trailer to have as much or more story than Discovery. I think that's a good thing and can work with comedy.


I'm not sure that Discovery has no story. I think there's quite an extensive story with Discovery - whether it's any good remains to be seen.

The Orville reminds me of 90's sci fi show, episodic tales that wrap up after one or two episodes and while I agree with Seth McFarlane's opinion that sci-fi (including Discovery) is becoming rather dystopian, his series needed to be advertised as something more than just a clear parody of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

The problem with The Orville is that it's not Star Trek and to be anything more than just seen a parody, McFarlane needed to do something original but with the aspirational and optimistic qualities Star Trek once had. He hasn't though and that's why The Orville won't succeed. Plus I think he's better off if he doesn't appear in his shows or films unless he's providing a voiceover.

#11 s8film40

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

I didn't say Discovery had no story. A serialized show inherently has to keep things somewhat simple. That's why they have chosen to fall back on a war themed story. I would expect Orville to have some variety of episodes some light ones and occasionally some well thought out ones.

 

I think another good example of a comedy series that is doing this is Rick & Morty. I avoided that series for a long time and recently watched it and to my surprise there were some really good sci-fi stories. The type of stories that make you think rather than just tuning in each week to see who's winning the war.

 

I don't know how well the Orville will do, but at this point I think it will outlast Discovery.



#12 1701D

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:39 PM

I didn't say Discovery had no story. A serialized show inherently has to keep things somewhat simple. That's why they have chosen to fall back on a war themed story. I would expect Orville to have some variety of episodes some light ones and occasionally some well thought out ones.
 
I think another good example of a comedy series that is doing this is Rick & Morty. I avoided that series for a long time and recently watched it and to my surprise there were some really good sci-fi stories. The type of stories that make you think rather than just tuning in each week to see who's winning the war.
 
I don't know how well the Orville will do, but at this point I think it will outlast Discovery.

I think The Orville is the kind of series that won't make it beyond its first season, certainly it won't outlast Discovery or Star Trek but will have its fans that may want to see it continue but only as a poor substitute for Star Trek.

That being said. I think The Orville is what Star Trek: Discovery should of been. Rather than a reimagination, Discovery should of been a return to Star Trek's unique style of storytelling.

The Orville is that return but because it doesn't have the weight of the Star Trek continuity and the brand loyalty behind it, it won't make it beyond its first season.

Having said that, I think that the style of stories Star Trek told during the 90's and Enterprise really won't work for today's audiences (including for most Star Trek fans) but I don't believe that serialised storytelling is the way forward for Trek either. Modernising the format Star Trek followed between 1966 and 2005 is likely the perfect blend between episodic storytelling and the type of TV audiences love watching and streaming today. Will people want to rewatch Discovery the way that every other Star Trek series is enjoyed.

I like being able to put on an episode of TOS or TNG or VOY or DS9 or ENT and enjoy it on its own, because it's thought provoking or helps me with a problem I have or just makes me happy without having to watch the whole series to understand the episode. Being such a serialised show, Discovery may not have the longevity the older Star Trek's have enjoyed and continue to enjoy.

If Orville can prove that most people want episodic TV rather than the heavily serialised show Discovery is, then it could prove a credible threat to Star Trek. More likely though is that like Doctor Who has done, Orville may show CBS executives that Star Trek would work better if it was more episodic and less serialised - only if Discovery fails to hook in an audience.

#13 Gothneo

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:13 PM

Ha! I started an Orville Thread so we wouldn't have to mix Discovery and Orville Convo... but I guess its inevitable! 

 

I think... in the absence of actually *seeing* the product people are gonna guess and make comparisons... and they probably will even after both shows air. 

 

If Trek has moved away from the Optimistic future story telling with a moral... and something like the Orville comes along and fills that niche... can we really say its a Trek Ripoff anymore?? 

 

I hope that Comparing The Orville to any Trek show... including Discovery will be like comparing Trek and Babylon 5... which some people do... but anyone thats seen them both knows they are very different shows.



#14 s8film40

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 06:45 PM

It is really ironic that in the same year we have two new series premiering. One being a new Star Trek series trying not to be Star Trek and a comedy trying to be Star Trek. The comparisons are inevitable.

#15 robster

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:49 PM

Still looking forward to MacFarlane's Orville,but not expecting much,which is good,'cos then I might end up liking it more,lol!



#16 1701D

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:48 AM

In a way they both suffer from the same problem - they are both trying to be something they're not.

Discovery is trying to be the next big serialised Game of Thrones type drama

Orville is trying to be the next Star Trek show everyone wants to see from... Star Trek

Both shows will generate their own fans but neither show will work.

The difference between them though is that Orville doesn't have 50 years of history behind it, it doesn't have a large following/fanbase and probably never will - its more likely to be embraced by Star Trek fans who miss Star Trek the way it was in the 90's but will ultimately only ever be one season. Ironically, Where Orville could succeed is on Netflix. Appealing to a niche crowd, every week being a morality play in the same way Star Trek was.

Discovery meanwhile may polarise much of the fan base but ultimately it still has the support of being a part of this vast legacy and while season 1 may not resonate, because it's Star Trek, it will have a season 2 - in what shape or form season 2 takes is a different story for a different thread.

#17 s8film40

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

In a way they both suffer from the same problem - they are both trying to be something they're not.

Discovery is trying to be the next big serialised Game of Thrones type drama

Orville is trying to be the next Star Trek show everyone wants to see from... Star Trek

Both shows will generate their own fans but neither show will work.

The difference between them though is that Orville doesn't have 50 years of history behind it, it doesn't have a large following/fanbase and probably never will - its more likely to be embraced by Star Trek fans who miss Star Trek the way it was in the 90's but will ultimately only ever be one season. Ironically, Where Orville could succeed is on Netflix. Appealing to a niche crowd, every week being a morality play in the same way Star Trek was.

Discovery meanwhile may polarise much of the fan base but ultimately it still has the support of being a part of this vast legacy and while season 1 may not resonate, because it's Star Trek, it will have a season 2 - in what shape or form season 2 takes is a different story for a different thread.

I'm not sure how you're so certain the Orville is only lasting one season. I think it will get 2-3 at least. Even if it does poorly I think they may give it a second chance just because it has Seth McFarlane tied to it. Personally I think if any series is in danger of only one season it's Discovery. I agree they are both trying to be something they are not, but a comedy has a little more leniency when it comes to that.



#18 MisterPL

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:27 PM

[Checking to see which thread we're in... Okay.]

 

Orville is a broadcast series on Fox. Anyone who's watched a fledgling show on this network knows that if it doesn't hit within the first half of the season, especially if it's a high-budget sci-fi-fi project, it's on the bubble at best. There have been plenty of network shows canned before they get to six episodes. It's pretty ruthless.

 

And believe me, Fox will do everything they can to make sure this show fails, from pre-empting it in favor of sports and putting it on hiatus to airing episodes out of order.



#19 Gothneo

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:41 PM

I don't know how we can say The Orville is trying to be something its not when we haven't seen it! 

 

Again... I think people are overlaying their wishes and desires... 

 

Also if Mcfarlane has anything going for him.. its getting his shows canceled by fox.. then resurrected (multiple times!)



#20 Alteran195

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

I’d be shocked if The Orville lasts more than one season, especially on Fox.

Discovery is more than likely going to last more than one season regardless, they’re already planning its 2nd and 3rd season now.




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