981 replies to this topic

[Whirlygig]

I became a little confused as to what they were trying to do.  I think it was something like this:  they put some beacons on the ship, so they could jump a hundred+ times and use those beacons to somehow put together enough data to use to deduce a tracking algorithm for *any* (not just this) cloaked Klingon ship.

 

But then that didn't seem consistent with the action/sequences.  Like in the scene Alteran linked to, why are they firing at it while doing these jumps?  Wouldn't that be jeopardizing the mission if they accidentally destroyed it?  Also, should it have been decloaked all that time as it appeared to have been?  Felt like there were some inconsistencies, but maybe I just misunderstood, it was all a bit rushed on screen.  TNG would have shown a nice discussion with diagrams before hand in the observation lounge, and I would have understood, lulz.

 

And then I also just had to wonder, how is it they can beam on and off so easily?  Did I miss an explanation of this?  I thought it was hard to beam onto a ship if their shields are up, did the Klingon ship not have shields?  I know they beamed *on* sort of as they were de-cloaking, so that might explain why shields weren't up yet...but then what?  Again I probably just got confused.

 

In my estimation Stamets seems to have gone Gary Mitchell after leaving the galaxy or some such.  Ret-conning when/where man/one had or had not gone before....not a good canon look to be wearing...

[Alteran195]

I became a little confused as to what they were trying to do.  I think it was something like this:  they put some beacons on the ship, so they could jump a hundred+ times and use those beacons to somehow put together enough data to use to deduce a tracking algorithm for *any* (not just this) cloaked Klingon ship.

 

But then that didn't seem consistent with the action/sequences.  Like in the scene Alteran linked to, why are they firing at it while doing these jumps?  Wouldn't that be jeopardizing the mission if they accidentally destroyed it?  Also, should it have been decloaked all that time as it appeared to have been?  Felt like there were some inconsistencies, but maybe I just misunderstood, it was all a bit rushed on screen.  TNG would have shown a nice discussion with diagrams before hand in the observation lounge, and I would have understood, lulz.

 

And then I also just had to wonder, how is it they can beam on and off so easily?  Did I miss an explanation of this?  I thought it was hard to beam onto a ship if their shields are up, did the Klingon ship not have shields?  I know they beamed *on* sort of as they were de-cloaking, so that might explain why shields weren't up yet...but then what?  Again I probably just got confused.

 

In my estimation Stamets seems to have gone Gary Mitchell after leaving the galaxy or some such.  Ret-conning when/where man/one had or had not gone before....not a good canon look to be wearing...

They started jumping and firing to get the Klingon's to cloak their ship so they could get the cloaking frequency. The Klingon's couldn't lock onto Discovery with their weapons because it was jumping too rapidly, so they cloaked to try to protect themselves.  

 

Like you, I don't fully understand the specifics of the plan, but may have missed some details. 

 

I'm guessing they were firing on areas of the ship that wouldn't lead to critical damage. 

 

For beaming over, they said they would transport as soon as the ship started uncloaking, before they raised their shields. The cloaks the Klingon's seem to use are a lot slower at cloaking/uncloaking than we've seen before, so the ship probably has to be completely visible before the shields can be raised. 

 

Its also possible that them beaming over was happening just as the ship decloaked, but since this is a TV show they couldn't show both at the same time. 

 

Once they found the cloaking frequency, they were able to penetrate it and and beam off the away team. 

[Whirlygig]

Ok, got it, thanks for the clarifications!

[Gothneo]

I thought Lorca initially says to fire on them  enough to do some damage but not to seriously hurt them before they get the cloaking freq.

[Alteran195]

One thing I'm looking forward to is binge watching the entire first half of the season one of these days to look/listen for things I may have missed. 

[Gothneo]

Yeah.. I've been re-watching episodes... def picked up things I missed initially. 

[Alteran195]

Eaglemoss website is giving us a good look at some of the ships they'll be featuring in the Discovery collection:
https://imgur.com/a/gXF9I

[Gothneo]

Frakes seems generally upbeat on Discovery... of course it with respect to the episode he directed... but still, it sounds as iff the cast and show has found its footing in the general chaos that the show seems to have been birthed in. 

 

Sounds like tonights episode will be a good one.... looking forward to it after the break.

 

http://www.startrek....espite-yourself

[Alteran195]

That was an excellent episode, possibly even my favorite so far.

 

Spoiler

So Tyler is VoQ is confirmed.

 

I'm also getting more suspicious that Lorca is indeed from the Mirror Universe, which is kind of disappointing if it ends up being true.

 

Sucks that Culber was killed, I liked his character.

 

Possible look at the Connie?

 

Love seeing the Shenzhou again, I wonder if we'll see Georgiou at some point too? Maybe she's the Emperor, and is actually a decedent of Hoshi?

[Gothneo]

Spoiler

Yep, Tyler is VoQ.... and we have to buy that they altered every organ, bone etc in him to the point of fooling medica scanners that he's human. Weak IMO... and weak exactly because they changed the Klingon anatomy so much! Even augmented klingons with human DNA couldn't pass as human in TOS. and DNA is what they would scan for.

 

Lorca may not be a "Mirror" version... as we saw in DS9 with characters like Smiley, or Spock in TOS,  not everyone is succumbs to being an "evil" version of themselves... and maybe we see that Lorca is Lorca no matter what universe, which makes him that much more admirable. at least I'm hoping for that.

 

I guess people that were complaining about how dystopic the show was and it should just go MU got their wish! It looks like were gonna be here for a few episodes... and its all gotta wrap up in the next 5.

[Gothneo]

BTW... I should add that as a "Mirror" Trek Episode, I think its top notch... if you never cared for the MU episodes, then you'd probably see it as more of the same.

 

I gotta say though.. its pretty amazing that the MU has all kinds of differences... what people do, when they die etc... and yet largely the two have been largely shown to be the same, meanwhile, JJ trek has one small incursion in the time line and we get a pretty massive ripple effect.. which includes the demise of Vulcan!

 

Relativity and quantum mechs sure are a bitch! 

[Alteran195]

BTW... I should add that as a "Mirror" Trek Episode, I think its top notch... if you never cared for the MU episodes, then you'd probably see it as more of the same.

 

I gotta say though.. its pretty amazing that the MU has all kinds of differences... what people do, when they die etc... and yet largely the two have been largely shown to be the same, meanwhile, JJ trek has one small incursion in the time line and we get a pretty massive ripple effect.. which includes the demise of Vulcan!

 

Relativity and quantum mechs sure are a bitch! 

I liked Lorca's "Destiny" comment that was no doubt poking fun at the fact that the universes are so similar in terms of where people are. 

 

This is probably my second favorite Mirror Universe episode following In a Mirror Darkly. I really can't wait to see the rest of this season, and would even be interested in seeing what the MU Disco is doing in the Prime Timeline. 

[Gothneo]

I re-watched the episode today as I was 1/2 asleep last night on 1st viewing... which I have to say is something I like about streaming.
 
Yeah, as a mirror U episode, its pretty darn good.
 
I'll add

 

Spoiler

Tilly really took to her MU persona fast... she handled the infliction, the smirks everything really really well... and her comment "If you talked to me like that I'd cut your tongue out and use it to lick my boots was really, scarily,  on point!

 

Tilly is my new fav trek MU character. 

[Whirlygig]

Spoiler

Alteran195, I would definitely say that the possibility that the emperor will turn out to be Georgiou seems extremely high to me.  I'm not sure about that "descendant of Hoshi" stuff though...

 

The only other reveal that would seem more shocking within the parameters of the show/universe -- it turns out to be Kirk or something.

 

Episode was good.  I think the Tyler thing is dumb, always have, always will.  Also it makes Burnham seem weak, that she so easily fell for him because he was a "man" who showed her affection.  Apparently that's what even the strongest woman in Starfleet needs, a man, right?  And she'll end up double-betraying her people as a result of it?  Unless of course the direction they go is that Tyler somehow sees the light of humanity and is the agent of unification.  Which also robs Burnham.  Because he would be seen as the primary catalyst to a better world, not her.  Of course, a man has to do it, even if he is a Klingon, right?  And furthermore....taking it in that direction would really be unfortunate because it would reward the character after his brutal killing of Stamets's partner.  Which, by the way, that moment has my wife in turmoil and declaring she no longer likes the show because he is dead already.  I told her that maybe someone will walk in and use future medicine quickly enough to save him, or maybe God-power Stamets will come to (as alluded in the next-on-Discovery teaser) and somehow fix things.

 

If indeed as it seems Lorca brought them to the MU on purpose, he would sure seem to be 1) acting the part of being befuddled and surprised by what they found pretty damn well and 2) willing to go the "agonizing" distance for whatever endgame he has in mind...

[Jay K]

I haven't given any thoughts publicly here, but needless to say that I like my Star Trek to leave me feeling hopeful, and not be so bleak. DS9 managed this in even it's darkest moments, whilst Discovery hasn't even come close. I've kept up with every episode though, and as someone who wishes they'd just declare Discovery to be in the JJ-verse, I got what I feel was some gratification this week:

Spoiler

The Defiant. The really unnecessary changes made to the Constitution class model, which I'm sure they'll say were 'modifications' done by the Terrans even though the ship is even more advanced than the time period Discovery takes place in. That to me says reboot, in much the same way it did when 343 industries took over the Halo franchise, for example. Once you retcon something as iconic and recognisable as the original ship class of the whole franchise, you've rebooted it in my opinion.

[Gothneo]

Spoiler

The Defiant. The really unnecessary changes made to the Constitution class mode.

I'm intrigued by your comment... as I  thought they just "splashed" a wireframe of it up... and I didn't look closely at it... but what did they change.. and / or get wrong?

[Whirlygig]

You can definitely see modifications to it on the wireframe.  You can view the still all over the net or above in Alteran's spoiler tag post.

 

However, here's another possible reason for the modifications -- damage sustained, and nothing better to replace it with.  Of course I suspect they'll go with your explanation, Jay K, because they won't think of mine.

[Gothneo]

I see what your talking about... will add that the Connie D has been in the MU for ~100 years so none of the enterprises lasted that long w/o some kind of refit.... I like Whirlygigs answer... and it could be thats what they came up for a refit at some point?

[Alteran195]

I think the MU refitting the Defiant at some point is definitely a reasonable answer to the changes, even if it isnt directly addressed on screen.

It looks like the Pylons could have some kind of weapon on them, at least thats the only thing I can think of that those things could be.

No other Starfleet ship weve seen in Discovery has had anything like them on any of the ships pylons, so it could very well be a MU thing.

The only way wed know if its a new model for all Connies, or just the Defiant, would be for them to show one in the Prime Timeline.

They could just straighten the pylons, and take out the saucer divets for a Prime Constitution and Id be perfectly fine with the new look.

[Jay K]

Gothneo, take a look:
 

Spoiler

 
The neck has been shortened, the pylons replaced, the deflector mounting protrudes a lot more, and the saucer has had three forward-facing areas added to it.

 
Whirlygig, that's a good point, but I suspect the answer is simply that they wanted to put their 'mark' on it, which they'll probably say on After Trek as them 'refreshing' a 50 year old design. One of the key elements in Trek of old - the design continuity - has now been replaced with the model they use in the superhero universes, and some video games (Halo).

EDIT: Just to be clear, my only problem with this is that CBS insist that the show is set in the old prime universe; it clearly isn't (one need only look at the redesigned Klingons, their ships, as well as the look and size of the federation vessels). Now imagine it's an actual prequel to the JJ film universe, and it's an almost perfect fit. I watch this series, and I can definitely see it leading into that first film.

It's simply a case of rights issues between Paramount and CBS as to why it's apparently prime.