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"New ‘Star Trek’ Series Coming to CBS in 2017"

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#521 Alteran195

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 12:41 PM

Wow. A lot of you sound like the hack movie critics out there. You have already condemned this show before you have even watched the first episode. I think you're paying way to much attention to "showrunners" and producers, and the behind the scenes stuff. Just wait until in premiers and watch the first episode and see if you like it. I have never cared who wrote or directed a single episode of any Star Trek. I have never had any interest in knowing who the "showrunner" was. And to tell you the truth I am pretty sure that's why I enjoyed all of the shows and movies instead of just a certain one. When it starts getting picked apart before it comes out it loses the magic.

I've never liked any post on this forum, this is the first.

Back when I first started watching Trek, the only name I knew was Gene Roddenberry.

I never knew who Brannon Braga or Rick Berman were until years later when I was watching the special features on the box sets.

I had no idea who Ron Moore was, or that he was involved with Trek until the last 5 to 10 years or so.

I still don't know who Fuller is, I've never watched any of his shows, and didn't even know he wrote for Trek until I started reading posts about it recently.

There hasn't been a single Trek series I haven't enjoyed. I've found all the movies entertaining, with reasonably solid stories. Some more so than others.

I recognize some names involved with the production, but ultimately I don't care until I see it on TV. Even trailers don't matter much to me, just look at Beyonds first trailer compared to the movie we got.

I'm really starting to hate reading Trek message boards with all the bullshit being posted when we know nothing, and really don't know what every other series was like this early in its development.

#522 1701D

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 05:49 AM

Wow. A lot of you sound like the hack movie critics out there. You have already condemned this show before you have even watched the first episode. I think you're paying way to much attention to "showrunners" and producers, and the behind the scenes stuff. Just wait until in premiers and watch the first episode and see if you like it. I have never cared who wrote or directed a single episode of any Star Trek. I have never had any interest in knowing who the "showrunner" was. And to tell you the truth I am pretty sure that's why I enjoyed all of the shows and movies instead of just a certain one. When it starts getting picked apart before it comes out it loses the magic.


And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the opinion of the majority of Star Trek fans. Which is a good thing.

There are true fanatics for every big franchise, political party etc...

There's nothing wrong though with being reasoned in our opinions.

Is the news that Brian Fuller is stepping down as show runner bad news? Absolutely!

Will it effect the show creatively? Yes but to what degree when we still have Fuller on as executive producer and a mixture of Star Trek alumni in the writers room

Will the series bomb as a result? It's hard to say until it's released and we get to judge for ourselves.

In conclusion:

I don't think the reaction of those who care about the production stuff is unjustified. I think Star Trek fans have been let down by a studio determined to turn Star Trek from its niche roots into this global mega brand that is accessible to everyone and appeals to no one.

Do I think Discovery is the right way for the franchise to be headed? Yeah I think TV is certainly where Star Trek thrives and I think putting it on a streaming service is a perfect choice. Do I think putting it on All access is the way forward? No. I think CBS have fumbled with their crown jewel by doing this. They'd have been in a much better position had they sold the production rights to Star Trek to Netflix, HBO or Amazon.

I applaud them for trying to go it alone with Star Trek but my feeling is that now more than when Fuller was attached, after the 13 episodes have aired for Discovery, it may be that CBS do get Netflix to produce the series.

But who knows, after watching Chaos on the Bridge, the news about Discovery is a drop in the ocean compared to the chaotic birth of TNG.

Final thoughts:
I blame the internet.

#523 Gothneo

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 02:35 PM

I like music... and at one point I knew who were the writers, the producers as well as the performers such to the point that I would purchase albums on the strength of those that were involved in making the album even if I had never heard of the band.  I found a lot of great stuff that way, and enjoyed most of it.. but not all, immensely. But there was stuff I didn't like, and I could use that information as a predictor to suite my own style and taste.

 

Most people don't care. They hear something they like and now a days ask an app to ID and buy it for you! I have no issues with that.

 

Movies, TV shows, etc are not much different. Some people, like me, really enjoy digging into some of the behind the scenes details.

 

For example... I can tell you I'm not ever interested in seeing anything M. Night Shyamalan touches in any capacity! He was a one trick pony which got old real fast!

 

So why is it so bad that people discuss such details as whos the producer or show runner and what will be the effect on the product? And if you  really don't like it... why come on a thread that will talk about it and engage? I guess I just don't understand? I'm not trying to call anyone out... but saying things like "I've never liked any post on this forum", or "You guys are starting to sound like the hack movie critics..." just makes me wonder?!

 

I like movie critics and think they serve a purpose... and I get that some people don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I do... and it doesn't typically ruin it for me... though sometimes, when I see pork getting stuffed into whats supposed to be an all beef sausage I say so!



#524 Alteran195

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 03:12 PM

Never liked a post as in clicked the like this button, that's what I'm referring to. 

 

My big gripe with everything is that we know so little about the series. 

 

We know the general time period, the name, and some character info. 

 

That's it. 

 

Sure we see names, and we can see what they've worked on in the past, but we don't know how they'll write Trek. Especially since there are some people who have done great work on Trek in the past alongside some of the questionable ones. 

 

Is writing for a series really a one person job, or do multiple people give input? Just because someone has done hit or miss work in the past, doesn't mean they will here.

 

I prefer to reserve judgement until I actually see an episode since we know even trailers can be incredibly misleading. Just look at Beyond. 



#525 Gothneo

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 04:13 PM

Ok. that makes more sense! thank you! I was seriously confused by the comment! I took it literal!

 

But writers can make a difference... at least to me they do... for example... I find I generally don't care for most work that Orci has been involved in... as a producer or writer. Some of his best work seems to be some of his early work.



#526 1701D

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:19 PM

I'm going to say this though.

If you're a fan as much as Brian Fuller is a fan, you don't leave Star Trek.

Could you imagine Abrams leaving the Star Wars production and that not being a massive massive story?

The fact Fuller has left his dream job (I mean Star Trek is a job you just don't walk away from) is a worry as it suggests more than just being needed on other series. That's the worry here, what happened to make Fuller, a mega Star Trek fan, leave Star Trek?

#527 robster

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:39 AM

His name is still Bryan though,not Brian. LOL!

 

I'm just gonna do what I always do with new shows and movies,be it Trek or otherwise.......wait and see. I read less and less comments these days as they're just so full of nitpicky negative stuff,especially ST and SW socalled fans. I tend to think that if they can make a better movie or tv show,then do! Don't just sit there and SAY what should be done. lol! Yeah,yeah,I know it's not THAT easy,lol!

 

J-R!



#528 WORF22

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 09:01 AM

In this Trekkies humble opinion I think that as fans of S.T. & S.W. we have an emotional investment to the franchise. We tend to hold them to a hire stander then most people because we love them so.  

 

To me  the show runners / writers “the big wigs” are just looking at the bottom line as too how much money they can make, where we look at a new show/movie and think how is this going to complement or fup the existing shows and hopping  that it will not be a franchise killer.

 

When you have big stars like Levar Burton talking about core values of "Trek and what Trek was all about you can see that the direction it is going in is not what we as fans were drawn to. And I think that is why whether it be Star Trek, Star Wars or a new reboot we nitpick.

 

It is fear, the fear that if it is not done right it will never be done again.  

 

Levar Burton

 “ I’d love for Gene’s hopeful vision of humanity’s outcome to return. I’d love to see some of the core values of "Trek," of "Star Trek," come into these new movies. That would be very cool for me; that would be the best of both worlds:terrific entertainment, wonderful action pictures with values that "Star Trek" is so famous for.  To make movies that are about something. Movies that cause us to examine ourselves, our motives and ambitions.

Just something that can keep us on track, you know what I mean? That’s what "Star Trek" is really all about. At least for me it is. It always has been.”



#529 1701D

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:40 AM

I think a lot of studios are now acknowledging that "canon" is an important part of a large multiverse such as Star Trek, Star Wars, DC and Marvel.

Studios are looking at the bottom line sure but they're understanding that the way to make money is to build a universe that fans can fall in love with and invest their time and money in.

Discovery is a result of CBS listening to the fan base. It's prime universe (but won't ignore the Kelvin Timeline) and it's going to chart the 10 years before Kirk and Spock. It is a show that is already deeply woven into the fabric of Star Trek.

Yes if they reimagine things it's going to get fans backs up but they had an ambassador in BRYAN fuller.

The open ended question is; will Bryan Fuller's demotion have any impact on a series he has already created and will continue to have involvement in? Will the look of the series disjoint the prime universe or will it blend seamlessly into TOS?

The likelyhood is that they will use the look and style of the Kelvin ship in the 2009 movie to shape the look and aesthetic of the series. Just a guess but it would be logical to tie in the Kelvin universe with the aesthetic of the USS Kelvin.

#530 Jay K

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:04 AM

Worf, great comment.

Gothneo, your analogy to music (discovering new bands because the people you like have worked with them etc) is spot on. It's probably how a lot of people got into the new Battlestar Galactica for example.

If you have read or heard anything regarding Bryan Fuller over the years - be it interviews, or just listening to him ramble on about how much he loves Trek, going into great detail in a way others, certainly the likes of Simon Pegg for example, wouldn't be capable of - then you must also surely understand why him walking away as showrunner is being seen as a big deal. As 1701D said, it's akin to what would've happened if JJ Abrams had walked away from Star Wars.

People who's work has shaped Trek, work we're all desperate to still buy today, Michael and Denise Okuda, along with Doug Drexler, have all commented on Fuller's leaving by saying it's bad: And because of their concern here, that leaves an impression on me (someone who loves their work and what they brought to the table) that there's more to this than we're being told.

Also, I don't really buy into the argument that writers will adapt their style when writing for Star Trek, as opposed to their previous work. That'd be akin to basting a chicken with garlic butter instead of plain ordinary butter, and expecting there to be no change to the flavour. It's they who leave their mark on a show. It's completely fair in my opinion to look up some of these writers previous works on IMDb, and see if anything jumps out at you.
Akiva Goldsman is the most recent name attached to Discovery, and after researching his previous work online, I honestly winced. I've suffered through enough of his previous work to see any positivity in this, and he's yet another person with close ties to JJ Abrams in the past. It brings to mind the duck test. With the exception of Fuller and Meyer, Discovery has a lot of people in senior positions now who I'd have expected to see in a Kelvin timeline/JJ show, not a Prime universe series.

Lastly, reading over the last few pages, I don't see what upset you guys (JMW and Alteran) so much. People sharing concerns, voicing their opinions, and resetting their expectations accordingly. I do understand how frustrating it can be to see people criticise a thing for no other reason than to find something to say (as many do with the Eaglemoss ships when it comes to spelling errors on letters smaller than a fifth of a millimetre in height), but at least for me, I'm seeing things with Discovery that genuinely concern me, so what's the big deal with me and others discussing them here? Also, I'm the type of guy who'll sing the praises of something they like. Does that mean I can no longer talk about TNG, DS9 or Eaglemoss? Come on, it's a forum! It's also a really respectful forum as well, unlike other places (Reddit, Trekmovie etc).

#531 1701D

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:05 AM

If we imagine that news of this kind being an explosion going off while we're all huddled around the device before it detonates then there is going to be a period of time where we're all thrown up into the air in different directions.

We've all just hit the deck and are trying to make sense of what's just happened. There's nothing wrong with being concerned about this news.

Let's flip this over to the dark side...

So JJ Abrams too the helm of Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Let's for a moment though imagine that 6 months before that movie was to be released, he walked away from the project because he had two other movies he needed to focus his time on.

i mean this is the guy who is Mr Star Wars. He took Trek on to make it more like Star Wars.

Can you imagine the backlash and the impact him leaving Episode 7? It would be headline news around the globe.

And then to replace him they get Joel Schumacher to finish the job.

Star Trek needs a hit. The fact is while a lot of us love DS9, Voyager and Enterprise, Star Trek is still most popular for a series 50 and almost 30 years old respectively.

You could almost argue that actually Star Trek has perhaps had its day. We don't however because we truly believe that there is still a place for Star Trek in our world, now more than ever.

But it's the shape and direction that Star Trek takes next that will determine whether or not it survives 2017, let alone another 50 years.

The Kelvin films are dead so it is up to Discovery to reconnect with the Star Trek fan base at large while drawing in a new generation of fans so desperately needed for Star Trek to continue.

Lightning in a bottle for a third time.

#532 Alteran195

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 05:38 PM

With the rumors of the captain being Klingon, I want to address the aesthetic and look of Dsicovery.

If the Klingon captain thing is true, it probably points to some secret alliance or joint operation between the Federation and the Klingons. If that is the case, it could explain some of the design elements of Discovery looking somewhat Klingon.

As far as I know, we haven't seen the interior of a Klingon ship during TOS, so it gives them some freedom with the interior designs of the ship.

Discovery will have an interior that is a mixture of 23rd century Federation, and the unknown 23rd century Klingon, and that is how it can look different from TOS, while still maintaining canon.

#533 1701D

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 06:24 AM

I've not heard the rumour of the Discovery captain being Klingon, although that would be cool.

I've heard rumours that there could be another hero ship which could possibly be Klingon?

We haven't seen what Discovery will look like yet either. From what I've heard from the guys over at Trekyards (who've seen the final Discovery design), it's quite different.

My guess is that yeah, this is some kind of joint operation between Starfleet and the Klingons.

I think we need to be thinking though that the scope of this series is far larger than what we've seen before in Star Trek. I think we need to be thinking Game of Thrones.

I'd expect that Discovery is to this series as Kings Landing or Castle Black is to Game of Thrones. It's a piece of a much larger puzzle.

I'd be ok with an asthetic between what we saw in Star Trek 2009 onboard the Kelvin and the TOS aesthetic. I'd like to think we're going to see the original series Enterprise in this series at some point too and that would have to be like for like, that has to be identical to the Enterprise we saw in early episodes of TOS and not reimagined.

There's still a nasty taste in my mouth as a result of fullers departure and no leading Star Trek alumni to give the fans hope that this is a return to the Star Trek legacy and canon we all fell in love with.

#534 Alteran195

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:56 AM

I loved the Kelvin bridge.

As for Trek being Game of Thrones like in its story telling, that'd be great. I've said it before that telling a story from different perspectives is a good thing, ad I'd want to see something like that in the Trek universe.

The same story from both a Klingon and Federation side of things would be a new take on storytelling for Trek, and I think would be pretty interesting.

#535 1701D

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 07:58 PM

I think the scope of Star Trek has always been there, it's always spoken about in various episodes but never seen or explored. With Discovery we will probably see the scope of Star Trek. This won't be a series set only on a ship. I think this will really delve into the different alien cultures of this time period.

#536 Jay K

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 04:26 AM

A Trek show that copies Game of Thrones style of moving from one group of people, to the next (King's Landing, Winterfell, The Wall, Dragonstone, Dorne etc), would be absolutely amazing. DS9 is the only previous incarnation that comes close this, and I'd love to see it again. Federation, Klingon and Romulan perspectives all around one show.

#537 Gothneo

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:54 AM

Oh my... no... just no... last thing I need is years of "the Romulans are coming... don't worry they're coming!"

 

RRRRRRRR Martin is a hack writer... such to the point that the show can no longer even stay on his script.... in fact its safe to say that its a rare case of visual media far exceeding the books. But the main reason I wouldn't want a game of thrones style Trek is that Game of thrones is all about deceit, power, and nothing optimistic or good.



#538 Alteran195

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 07:28 AM

We don't want a game of thrones type story, just the style that game of thrones uses.

The crew of the Discovery.

The crew of a Klingon ship.

A group on Earth or on a space station.

Like that.

Multiple perspectives on the same story.

#539 Alex

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:04 AM

*sigh* The problem with Bryan Fuller's departure isn't that he left, it's the circumstances under which he left that should really be creating cause for concern. Yes, the "official" reason given for his departure is that he had his hands in too many other shows and "stepped down," but multiple inside sources have come forward stating that the real reason he stepped down was the result of pressure from CBS to hurry up and get the show out "on schedule," which effectively meant meeting an unrealistic deadline so CBS could force DSC out the door a bit sooner while sacrificing the show's quality. Fuller wisely pushed back and was effectively given a "step down or be fired" scenario by the higher–ups. The "too many other projects" is cover, just like the Deadwood movie that was created solely as a public relations tactic to keep the fans of that series from going thermonuclear when it was cancelled, and at least a few people in CBS has the loose lips necessary to let people know that "too many projects" was cover, and that DSC was having production issues. The real problem here is that CBS set out with a completely unrealistic set of deadlines based on how things were moving and now they're trying to hit them by cutting corners and shoving the show out the door before it's ready, and Fuller wisely pushed back against that because it's exactly why Enterprise got off to such a rocky start and only to go down in flames after it recovered thanks to being stuck on a dying network and alienating most of its fanbase. Obviously Fuller wanted to avoid a repeat of that situation with DSC.

 

Also, Fuller was brought in specifically to appeal to the brainer portion of the Trek fanbase, he wrote numerous VGR episodes, (some more controversial than others, an even those have their followers,) but he also wrote the highly memorable DS9 episode Empok Nor in addition to one other, so this is someone whose initimately familiar with the series, hence why losing him is a big deal. While the people taking over are effectively Fuller's "guys," that doesn't always go so well. Matt Groenig left The Simpsons in the hands of Al Jean, and we've all seen how that's turned out. The show keeps getting renewed, but not with the level of quality it had before Al Jean took over. Another show I like was briefly subjected to four years of production by a pure hack before he was ousted as a result of his hackery, and he would have been out a lot sooner if he wasn't buddy buddy with the boss. (I can even forgive the first two years, it's the second two that make my blood boil because there was no excuse for them.)

 

Furthermore, I have enough production experience to know when a show is exhibiting behind the scenes chaos, and DSC has all of the telltale signs of said chaos coming out of its nacelles. For starters, there are really only three times when you would replace a showrunner on a series that's already in the middle of preproduction, and none of them are ordinary circumstances. The first is if the previous showrunner dies or is somehow incapacitated to the point that they can't work anymore, the second is if they completely torpedo the budget and either fall or are about to fall behind schedule, and the third is if they quit, and that usually causes legal complications since someone has to buy out their contract or their contract to be showrunner conflicts with a previous contract elsewhere. Fuller hit the "behind schedule" reasoning, but anyone with half of brain would realize his deadlines were unrealistic and give him a pass unless he was literally setting piles of CBS's money on fire. Second, the fact that DSC is being forced out the door before it's ready is cause for concern, as is the fact that it's been delayed since it was announced and promptly forgotten about instead of announced and immediately put into pre–production. Third, CBS seems to be tripping over their own feet with how to handle this show: they understand the need to go with the "prime universe," but this is the second prequel no one asked for, and now it's on a service no one wants, and if it fails, it'll be the result of it being on that service instead of on normal broadcast television or on Showtime, which CBS has ownership of. (Seriously, why is this going on All–Access and not Showtime, which people actually watch and subscribe too? You'd have all the benefits of All–Access including a paywall if you consider that a benefit without the flaws of a half–baked streaming service.) This doesn't mean that DSC will be terrible, but it doesn't bode well for the series either.

 

I've seen TNG cited, and yes, TNG was chaotic, but it worked because Paramount hired Rick Berman to reign in Roddenberry who was out of control, and the first two seasons had some pretty cringeworthy episodes as a result of that. The difference between TNG and ENT is that Paramount was willing to let TNG find its footing and to help mitigate the chaos. With ENT they were adding to the chaos by hiring showrunners who wanted to tell a different story than their fanbase wanted and they in turn wanted to produce. Whether DSC will turn out like TNG or ENT remains to be seen, but being on All–Access doesn't do them any favors, and already puts the show behind the eight ball the way that UPN did with ENT. (VGR was fine because it was an established crew that had the full support of the network to tell their story without any sort of conflict.)

 

My real concern with DSC though is why it's set in the 23rd century, which is that someone wanted "villainous Klingons" in the series. The reason this is mind–numbingly stupid is that TNG effectively proved Roddenberry partially right in that we didn't need villainous Klingons even if we needed Klingons, but if we really wanted them, a treaty wouldn't stop us from having them as DS9 briefly pointed out, along with GEN I might add. Hell, go to the 25th century like the majority of fans were clammoring for the show to do after the hobus supernova, and Romulan refugees could be part of what pushes the Klingon Empire to show a more hostile side than we were familiar with in TNG. This doesn't mean that DSC will be bad, it just means that its priorities aren't where they should be, and its setting is built around some questionable ideas.

 

I will still watch DSC, I still intend to support it, but lately it feels like CBS is doing everything in their power to make me want to not like this show beyond the fact that it's set in the prime universe, which is one step forward surrounded by 100 backwards. The talk of reinventing the look of Klingon's and other aliens for DSC had me cringing. Flashier FX don't help Trek when they look out of place with the era it's set in. I'd rather something primitive and aesthetically like New Voyages that feels like it fits in the timeline than something modern that doens't. If CBS wants to produce Trek with modern aesthetics, they should move further into the future, not into the past.

 

Finally, there's life after 2379! I "get" wanting to do a 23rd century series as a nod to TOS, but Trek is at its best when its moving forward and not backwards in the timeline, and 25th century Trek would do that. A show set a few decades after TNG would still allow for cameos from characters we know and love without too much baggage, and without contrived designs that look out of place. DSC might not be able to pull that off, but I'm hopeful that the next Trek can, and that CBS seriously considered something on broadcast again if All–Access is DSC's undoing. I really think CBS missed the boat on this one, but admit that I hope I'm wrong.

 

I want to be clear, I'm still looking forward to DSC, I just have a lot of concerns about it given how it seems it's being handled and how CBS seems to be trying to rush it instead of letting the people working on it get it right so we don't have another ENT fiasco.



#540 MisterPL

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 04:05 PM

Star Trek: Discovery was always going to be developed by committee. Fuller was at the head of that committee. Now he's not. He's still attending meetings from time to time but he got the ball rolling in a direction he likes and is confident enough to hand it off to two other people he feels are qualified to carry on. If he's okay with that, so am I.

 

He wasn't fired. He wasn't demoted. He didn't leave altogether "due to creative differences." He's still involved while he gets other projects off the ground.

 

That said, no one has to justify their elation or dread or apathy about this news. Trek fans are a tough crowd with varied levels of investment. I choose to be cautiously optimistic since I'm a fan of Fuller's work and he's put me at ease about his change of duties on this very different series.







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