339 replies to this topic

[1701D]

Do we think that the shot of that ship at warp was the Enterprise A and not the Enterprise 1701?

The silhouette of the ship in the clip doesn't look like the 2009 Enterprise to me.

[Alex]

Well.. since ST Beyond is in the JJ Verse... that is the context of my comment...and its not that they are blowing up the Enterprise all the time... because they don't... but right off the bat in the 1st JJ movie Star Fleet seems to have been "cored" by the Romulans... then they expend more assets in whats is essentially a civil war.
 
"Beyond Excessive" is a perfect way to describe it!

Thank you for clarifying what you meant Gothneo, I wasn't sure if you were just referring to the JJ–verse, (in which case I completely agree with you about waton and gratuitious destruction of Federation property,) or to "ships named Enterprise" in general throughout Trek's movie history. Now that I know you were just referring to the JJ–verse having a fleet built entirely of explosives, I completely agree with you, although to be fair, it looks like we're only seeing one ship get destroyed, and not another "detonate the fleet scene," a description that still makes me cringe whenever I see promotional material for STID.
 

Do we think that the shot of that ship at warp was the Enterprise A and not the Enterprise 1701?

The silhouette of the ship in the clip doesn't look like the 2009 Enterprise to me.

If we're talking about the one seen from behind and in the asteroid belt, it's not the Enterprise–A, but most likely

Spoiler

the USS Franklin.

If we're talking about the ship that was seen from the sides, that's still very likely the JJ–prise. Granted, looking at that scene very closely again, it also looks like it might be what I've spoiler tagged too.

 

There's no reason to believe that the JJ–verse will even see an Enterprise–A, especially given the fact that the honor of naming a starfleet ship with an "A" suffix was bestowed upon Kirk's crew mostly for the fact that the ship they'd lost was 25 years old, and that while not all of that time was spent together on the Enterprise, the aforementioned crew had served Starfleet loyally for roughly the same amount of time. The JJ–verse's crew would have served Starfleet for about four or five years, on a ship that was only two years into its first five year mission, making it no more special or memorable than the numerous ships that were lost in Trek XI and Into Darkness, and thus not noteworthy enough of receiving an "A" successor unless every ship in this universe receives an "A" successor, and the last time I checked, we didn't see the "Kelvin–A" floating around in STID. For reference, the "timetable" I'm working off of is that STID is set about a year to 18 months after Trek XI, which is the point where the JJ–prise first launches, and the new movie is set 2–3 years into the actual five year mission based on Lin's comments. Thus, if we assume that there were several shorter missions before the five–year mission, (which STID effectively implies,) and that Trek XI was the first mission of the JJ–prise, the aforementioned ship would be about five years old three years into the five year mission. While Lin could certainly just say "screw it," and throw us an Enterprise–A, that doesn't quite seem to be where this universe is headed.

 

It is possible that the JJ–prise received a slight "space lift" before that scene with it at warp, which would make sense after the pounding it took in STID, and given that even in TOS the 1701 saw a bit of a "space lift" between Pike's time and Kirk's time, so it's not unreasonable to think that improvements would also be made in the JJ–verse when things had to be repaired. It's also possible that the ship at warp is... "warped" in such a way that it doesn't looke like it would normally.

 

Lin and Pegg are both Star Trek fans, as is Karl Urban, and two of them are in production positions, so I'm not as worried about this movie as I would be under different circumstances. Oh, and even though Karl Urban isn't in a production position, he did seem to have some influence over certain aspects of the film, including a little Easter Egg at the end spoiler tagged below.

 

Spoiler

So apparently Karl Urban's favorite Trek film is actual Star Trek: The Motion Picture from 1979, and he actually makes a pretty strong argument for why it's his favorite. As a nod to that film, and to how we first see McCoy in it, as a sort of hippie with a huge beard, a giant medallion, and an unbuttoned shirt, there's a scene at the end of Beyond where Urban's McCoy has no beard, but a much smaller medallion and unbuttoned shirt on, which is Urban's way of implying that McCoy in the JJ–verse will indeed wind up much like the McCoy of TMP at some point.

 

Oh, and a third trailer seemed to premiere last night, I believe during the Stanley Cup finals, but can't remember for sure. It's basically the second tralier with a handful of alternate shots that we haven't seen before in it, but it looks just as promising as the second trailer, and both look far more promising than the teaser. I'm feeling good about this movie in a way that I wasn't back in December.

[Alteran195]

We're going to get an A at some point because that's just what they do in Star Trek, it doesn't matter what the career of the Enterprise at this point has been. It's a trope of the series, and they will do it at some point. 

 

Plus, the Enterprise has certainly had a pretty distinguished career in its short lifespan. Its crew helped stop the Narada from destroying Earth, a pretty big thing to do. It helped expose Admiral Marcus and his plan to start a war with the Klingons, which again probably saved Earth. It's also a couple years into its 5 year mission, and who knows what it's done in that time. 

 

The ship itself in the shows hasn't done anything, it's always been its crew, and so far this Enterprise has some pretty big accomplishments under its belt. 

[Alex]

We're going to get an A at some point because that's just what they do in Star Trek, it doesn't matter what the career of the Enterprise at this point has been. It's a trope of the series, and they will do it at some point.

Alteran195, I'm afraid that I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. While the "letter progression" of ships named "Enterprise" is a trope of the Prime Universe, there's no reason for it to be an element that's copied over into the JJ–verse. The two most common criticisms of the JJ–verse at large are that it's "empty and vapid," (arguably a very fair criticism,) and that nothing has been done with it that makes it really stand out from the Prime Universe, thus the "reboot for the sake of a reboot" argument. An Enterprise–A at this stage would arguably be more detrimental than beneficial, as it would only further reinforce the "reboot for reboot's sake" criticism that the JJ–verse has yet to be able to shake. Not giving Kirk a new ship named Enterprise though? That would definitely be something different if we actually get a fourth film in the JJ–verse, (Beyond isn't meant to be an "ending," but Paramount could always decide that getting the cast back together is too much of a headache and that they'd rather do something else for Trek XIV,) and would arguably make it stand out in a way it might otherwise not. Giving Kirk

Spoiler

the U.S.S. Franklin

would be memorable specifically because he wouldn't be getting a new Enterprise, and would instead wind up with a smaller, older ship, and presumably with fewer crewmembers. (This would also be a good on–screen explanation for missing characters whose actors might not sign on for a fourth film.) An equally memorable change would be to

Spoiler

give Kirk the U.S.S. Excelsior at the start of the next film, and to promote Sulu to Captain of the U.S.S. Franklin. Alternatively, Kirk could retain command of the Franklin with Sulu gaining command of the U.S.S. Excelsior and taking a large portion of the former Enterprise crew with him, effectively acheiving the same results.

 

Additionally, it's also worth noting that Paramount's higher–ups as well as the creative teams behind the JJ–verse films all seem to be reluctant to embrace the "set on a ship named Enterprise" trope, specifically because of how inherantly "tropey" it is; bringing in an Enterprise–A would border on self–parody, and the production crew and Paramount's higher–ups are inherently aware of that. Not using the "Enterprise" name for Kirk's next ship could actually make the film more accessible rather than less accessible too, which is something that Paramount has gone to extremes for, particularly with the film's first trailer.

 

Plus, the Enterprise has certainly had a pretty distinguished career in its short lifespan. Its crew helped stop the Narada from destroying Earth, a pretty big thing to do. It helped expose Admiral Marcus and his plan to start a war with the Klingons, which again probably saved Earth. It's also a couple years into its 5 year mission, and who knows what it's done in that time. 

 

The ship itself in the shows hasn't done anything, it's always been its crew, and so far this Enterprise has some pretty big accomplishments under its belt. 

True, it's always been the crew and not the ship itself, but the JJ–verse as a whole tends to have a grandiose scale associated with various accomplishments. You could easily make the arguement that the Kelvin's crew deserve's a ship with an "A" designation for their service in stopping the Narada from destroying Earth even sooner, (it basically bought the Federation 20 years or so to prepare for the Narada's eventual attack,) and while it helped expose Admiral Marcus' corruption, that seems par for the course with what we would expect from a Federation crew anyway. Even with those accomplishment's though, introducing a new Enterprise three films into this timeline seems like a bad idea for reasons noted above. Giving Kirk a ship that isn't named Enterprise would be something we haven't seen before, and would be a big step in making the JJ–verse stand out as more than a string of action–flicks and TWOK tropes; it'd be a fundamental change in what we're familiar with, and not necessarily a bad one for an alternate reality.

 

Speaking of changes, it's worth mentioning that

Spoiler

Karl Urban nearly didn't return to play McCoy again, because he had a scheduling conflict with another film and wasn't under contract for a third Trek film. What convinced him to come back

though was Justin Lin's script, which he noted felt more like Trek than the previous movies, so that's a promising sign. However, given that at least some people aren't under contract for further films, we could see some personnel changes in any additional films in the JJ–verse, and changing the ship that our crew is serving on could make those seem more natural. I'm not saying we'll never see another Enterprise in the JJ–verse mind you; I'm simply saying that I don't necessarily believe we'll see one command by Kirk, or even one that has an "A" suffix on it. If we get "JJ–Trek: The Next Generation," I'd fully expect to see a new Enterprise to go with the new crew, but it might not be an Enterprise–A, it might just be another "U.S.S. Enterprise NCC–1701," with no letter suffix, or it might be something like the "U.S.S. Enterprise NCC–17071" where the registry still changes, but the name is the same.

 

Oh, and one other thing I was reading recently about Beyond said that

Spoiler

while Krall, Idris Elba's character, is definitely absolutely not a Jem'Hadar, the film itself is apparently heavily influenced by DS9, with Krall being a rather obvious example of an aesthetic influence. I'm definitey curious to see what other ways DS9 is influencing the film though, as a DS9–infuenced plot could really make for an interesting twist in what we're familiar with.

[Alteran195]

Do you know the kind of backlash there would be if they gave Kirk a ship other than the Enterprise? Or if they changed the registry? 1701 is just as iconic as the Enterprise name itself. 

 

They also are talking about making these movies feel like Star Trek, and what's more Star Trek than giving a new Enterprise a letter after its 1701 registry. It doesn't really matter how long of a career this Enterprise has had, the Enterprise A didn't seem to have a distinguished career. It was only around for 7-8 years before being decommissioned, and there was still an Enterprise B. The JJ Prise at least saved Earth, that's more than can be said for the A. 

 

Future movies also have to appeal to a general audience that may not have seen Beyond or any prior movies, and what the general audience knows about Star Trek is that Kirk commands the Enterprise. 

 

Either they will somehow recover/repair the original 1701, make a new ship with the same registry, or give us the A. 

[1701D]

To give Captain Kirk anything other than the USS ENTERPRISE would be a really big mistake. Even though this is a totally new and different universe, there are certain things people expect to see in a Star Trek movie now, one of them is Kirk and Spock and the other is their 5 year voyage on the USS ENTERPRISE. To give them any other ship would defeat the purpose of rebooting this crew in the first place. Even for a mainstream audience that wouldn't have necessarily seen Star Trek before.

My guess is that we see the new Enterprise in that beautiful warp shot in the trailer. It will be a new USS ENTERPRISE NCC 1701 and not the USS ENTERPRISE NCC 1701 A.

[Alex]

Do you know the kind of backlash there would be if they gave Kirk a ship other than the Enterprise? Or if they changed the registry? 1701 is just as iconic as the Enterprise name itself.

 I actually don't think the backlash would be that significant in the JJ–verse. A lot of the people watching those movies aren't long–time Trek fans, and have no attachment to the idea that Kirk must command a ship named Enterprise, or that the Enterprise need have a 1701 registry. The NX–01 already got away with proving that you could have a ship named Enterprise that didn't have a 1701 registry, and despite everything it was criticized for, not using the 1701 registry was not one of those things. While it's true that this made sense because ENT was set before TOS, it's also true that the JJ–verse is set in a universe without any precedent for sticking an "A" on its ships, and with a precedent for using leading zeroes (e.g. the U.S.S. Kelvin,) on ships with three–digit registries, which wasn't something that the Prime Universe was known for. I don't think that the audience for these films is as attached to the Enterprise name or registry in the same way that the audience for the Prime Universe is, and if this were a Prime Universe setting I would be on the exact same page as you.
 

They also are talking about making these movies feel like Star Trek, and what's more Star Trek than giving a new Enterprise a letter after its 1701 registry. It doesn't really matter how long of a career this Enterprise has had, the Enterprise A didn't seem to have a distinguished career. It was only around for 7-8 years before being decommissioned, and there was still an Enterprise B. The JJ Prise at least saved Earth, that's more than can be said for the A.

I don't think giving a new Enterprise a letter after its 1701 registry would make these movies "feel like Star Trek," so much as I think it would make it feel like another wasted opportunity to distinguish itself from the Prime Universe. (Again, if this were a Prime Universe setting, I'd expect to see a letter after the 1701 registry, no questions asked.) As for the "A," if you want to go by production information and intent, it had a distinguished career before Kirk took command of it when it was still the U.S.S. Yorktown, and further distinguished itself by effectively bringing peace between the Federation and Klingon Empire. If you just want to go by what we saw on screen and are arguing that it's the crew and not the ship that's distinguished, Kirk got the "A" after spending over a decade in space commanding a ship named Enterprise, and that set a precedent for ships named Enterprise to have a letter suffix after them along with the 1701 registry rather than just a new registry as was common for other starfleet ships. The JJ–prise may have saved Earth, but then again, so did a Klingon Bird–of–Prey.
 
Nick Meyer once criticized fans who hated the scene in TWOK where it's established that Kirk cheated on the Kobyashi Maru for having "a TV mindset," because they argued that "Kirk wouldn't behave that way." Meyer's argument boiled down to the idea that just because the show did things one way didn't mean that the movies had to play by the same rules. Insisting that Kirk must command an Enterprise is the modern day equivalent of the "TV mindset," (perhaps it should be a "Prime Universe mindset" in this case,) because it's forcing a Prime Universe concept into a rebooted universe that would benefit far more from doing something different, the same way the original films really benefitted from doing things that were different from the TOS TV Series, even when they were always ideas that fans hated when they first heard them.
 

Future movies also have to appeal to a general audience that may not have seen Beyond or any prior movies, and what the general audience knows about Star Trek is that Kirk commands the Enterprise.

True, future movies do have to appeal to a general audience, but at this stage in the JJ–verse's timeline, there's an expectation that you'll have at least some knowledge of the JJ–verse even if you have no knowledge of Trek outside the JJ–verse. One reason to spoil the destruction of the Enterprise in the teaser and all subsequent trailers is to make it impossible for even the most casual moviegoer to not realize that the Enterprise is destroyed. It's also the kind of thing that could easily be reiterated at the start of the next movie the same way Spock's death was reiterated at the start of TSFS for anyone who missed TWOK; giving JJ–verse Kirk an entirely different ship wouldn't create nearly the backlash that you're claiming it would. (Creating a Prime Universe Enterprise with a different registry or suffix on the other hand would end with a mob carrying pitchforks and torches outside of CBS HQ.) Also, big changes like this can go over quite well, particularly when a movie is an some sort of alternate continuity in the way that the JJ–verse is. One of the most memorable elements of the original TMNT films is that after being forced out of their iconic sewer lair, the Turtles wound up with a new base in an antique subway station rather than just a different section of the sewer. It's memorable specifically because it's a change from the source material, and it's arguably a change on par with Kirk commanding a ship that isn't named Enterprise.
 
Also, it's worth pointing out that just because Pine and Quinto have signed contracts for a fourth JJ–verse film doesn't mean that there will be a fourth JJ–verse film. Karl Urban was only under contract for two films, and almost didn't do Beyond as I noted above, while other cast members are also under no obligation to return for a fourth film. (Pine and Quinto's contracts are predicated on the rest of the cast returning, and were added to their contracts as part of their agreement to appear in Beyond.) It's entirely possible that Paramount won't be able to get the cast back for a fourth film, at which point all bets are off. We could easily see an entirely new cast still set in the JJ—verse, far enough in the future where an "Enterprise–A" could be a possibility, or we could see films based off of some element of the new TV series, or we could see another JJ–verse film that features Pine and Quinto as Kirk and Spock, along with a very different crew than what we're familiar with, so what happens after Beyond is very much up in the air.

 

To give Captain Kirk anything other than the USS ENTERPRISE would be a really big mistake. Even though this is a totally new and different universe, there are certain things people expect to see in a Star Trek movie now, one of them is Kirk and Spock and the other is their 5 year voyage on the USS ENTERPRISE. To give them any other ship would defeat the purpose of rebooting this crew in the first place. Even for a mainstream audience that wouldn't have necessarily seen Star Trek before.

1701D, I completely disagree with you on this one. I know plenty of people who got into Trek on the JJ–verse and have absolutely no expectations of Kirk getting another Enterprise, and if anything, have an expectation of him

Spoiler

getting the U.S.S. Franklin as his "new" ship for any future movies.

People who got into Trek on the JJ–verse and went back and actually watched Prime Universe material are expecting him to get a JJ–verse version of the U.S.S. Reliant, the U.S.S. Excelsior, or something similar; not another Enterprise. Giving the crew any other ship would be the opposite of "defeating the purpose of rebooting this crew in the first place;" it would actually be justifying why a reboot was necessary, and why it was worth dredging up the characters from TOS to begin with instead of just telling an entirely new story with a different crew. The biggest criticism lobbed at the JJ–verse is that it retreads TOS and the TOS movies without ever doing anything different other than having more explosions and less substance. Not giving Kirk an Enterprise would be very different, and would be exactly what the JJ–verse needs to shake the reputation it has of being nothing more than a watered down version of the Prime Universe. Also, as I mentioned above, it's quite possible that Beyond will be the last film with this cast, even though it's not written with the intention of being a finale, and doesn't necessarily have to be the last film with said cast. Given that most of the actors have no contractual obligation for a fourth film, Paramount could decide to move on from Kirk and Spock even if they stay in the JJ–verse for another film. I'm not saying that Paramount won't do another film with at least some of this cast, but with most of the cast no longer under contract to make another Trek film, the direction of future movies is definitely up in the air, and we could get another movie with this cast just as easily as we could have the kind of change that we had after Nemesis, which also wasn't produced with the idea of being a "finale" either, so much as it was with the idea of being a lead–in to one. Given that this has been a really terrible year for sequels at the box office, and that Paramount has already had one that didn't do so well, Beyond's box office performance could very well mean the difference between another film with this cast in this universe or something different.
 

My guess is that we see the new Enterprise in that beautiful warp shot in the trailer. It will be a new USS ENTERPRISE NCC 1701 and not the USS ENTERPRISE NCC 1701 A.

I honestly think that you're placing too much stock in the way the ship looks at warp being evidence that it's a different ship. I honestly believe that it's just the JJ–prise with a "squeeze" effect on it as part of the overall warp drive effect and nothing more. It's just one more impressive visual trick in an already impressive VFX sequence.

[1701D]

Well in a little over a months time we will all be proven wrong once we've seen the movie as none of us really know what will happen!

[Alteran195]

New info are the ships from Beyond.

Spoiler

http://trekcore.com/...s-space-vessels


I don't know how I feel about the swept back nacelles. I need a better view of the ship to decide. They also seem a good amount smaller, which could be good.

The Franklin isn't post NX, it's pre NX, being the first ship to hit warp 4. That makes it part of the actual prime timeline since it's pre Kelvin.

 

Edit: Here is a direct link to the image detailing the ships. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/NAVWplv.jpg

 

[1701D]

I think that version of the Enterprise is the version of the ship we see in the very beginning of the new trailer, first at warp and then blasting from Space dock... OK so we know the Enterprise goes down, the secondary hull gets torn apart but the saucer seems to survive mostly intact... Could they use the Saucer and retrieve it from the planet it crashes onto and attach it to a new secondary hull? 

 

I don't think we'll be seeing an Enterprise A but we might be seeing an Enterprise refit? 

[Alteran195]

Could they use the Saucer and retrieve it from the planet it crashes onto and attach it to a new secondary hull? 

 

I don't think we'll be seeing an Enterprise A but we might be seeing an Enterprise refit? 

 I could certainly see this happening.

[DefiantOne]

In before they travel back through time with the USS Franklin in Star Trek 14 to save some humpback whales...

[Alex]

OK so we know the Enterprise goes down, the secondary hull gets torn apart but the saucer seems to survive mostly intact... Could they use the Saucer and retrieve it from the planet it crashes onto and attach it to a new secondary hull?

Theoretically, if the saucer itself doesn't go all Generations on us, (and this is a massive "if" predicated on the trailer just not showing the saucer being obliterated,) it would make sense for the saucer to just be attached to a new stardrive/secondary hull; you might even call it a "logical" decision. If that's the case, I would almost definitely expect that we'd see an Enterprise refit, which would make sense if there's anything left to refit, which it seems like there might be. Whether or not that's the case will obviously have to wait about a month to be determined though.

 

In before they travel back through time with the USS Franklin in Star Trek 14 to save some humpback whales...

I'd say don't give them any ideas, but at least in that scenario they'd be copying a Trek film that isn't TWOK.

 

Oh, and apparently CBS—not Paramount, but CBS—has given the JJ–verse an official name according to the guys behind Star Trek: Online. The official name for the JJ–verse is now... *drumroll please* The Kelvin Timeline. No, I'm not making that up, apparently CBS has decided that's the official name of the JJ–verse. It kind of makes sense since the incident with the Kelvin is basically where things supposedly changed, but if you wanted to nitpick, I think you could argue that it should be "The Narada Timeline" or "The Nero Timeline," since that's the ship/person who actually went back and screwed with said timeline.

[Alteran195]

I don't have a problem with it being called the Kelvin timeline. The Kelvin incident is what triggered all the changes, so it makes sense.

For all we know, Starfleet is the only group that's really aware of the fact that there even is an alternate timeline.

[Sybeck1]

I can't see the franchise going forward on the big screen without an Enterprise. I know the prime universe did for a movie without her, not in these popcorn flickes

[Alteran195]

I can't see the franchise going forward on the big screen without an Enterprise. I know the prime universe did for a movie without her, not in these popcorn flickes

Technically no Trek movie has been Enterpriseless. The A was in Star Trek 4.

[robster]

These popcorn flicks?! They are all popcorn flicks,lol! What,is there a deeper meaning in the old movies? Nah,all just fun entertaining movies. Some more than others. Of course,that's just an opinion,like any other,lol.

 

Yes,there are messages and whatnot in there,but still fun movies.

 

I'm sure this one will be as fun and entertaining as the previous movies,and that's just what it is.....a movie.

 

J-R!

[Alteran195]

While technically unrelated, since STO is going to be getting content from the Kelvin Universe, I thought I'd post a picture that was shown on reddit. This is a TOS Connie with the "skin" of the JJPrise. I kinda like it, just wished the bussard collectors matched. It won't actually be available in game like this, it was just part of them building the JJPrise for STO.

 

[Whirlygig]

So now a brand new, contemporary pop song by Rihanna has been attached to Star Trek Beyond, featured in a new trailer, added to the soundtrack, and is being used to attempt to push marketing to the mass crowds...

 

Can we admit now, all of us, together in unison, finally, that Trek has hit rock bottom as far as standards go?

 

And let me pre-empt references to that awful TOS episode with the singing hippies by saying...if you bring that wreck in to try and defend this behavior then all hope is truly lost for the human race.

[1701D]

absolutely not!

Star Trek movies have always tried to embrace contemporary themes and tried to attract a mainstream audience, the two more recent movies have succeeded more than any of the previous movies without completely giving up on what makes Star Trek unique. In a first for a Star Trek movie, Star Trek Beyond has broken the mould and that is something great as so many of these franchise films and shows remain stagnant never really breaking the mould (Star Wars: The Force Awakens for example is A New Hope).

What this shows to me is that Paramount are willing to do something new with its franchise without the fear of alienating most of the fan base. This also shows me that a few yet loud group of Star Trek fans simply can't come round to accept this new Star Trek, there are no reasons for it and if you're one of those fans then that's cool, just don't allow your disappointment to boil up and become rage. There's plenty of Star Trek already out there and plenty more Star Trek left to come. This version won't appeal to a lot of you but to others it will, accept that and understand that the kind Star Trek you love won't be gone forever and everything will be cool! Don't panic is all I'm saying.

Had this been an old song just slapped on a trailer then fine but something produced by a fan for the movie especially is something I think should be celebrated, no matter how much of a global megastar Rihanna is, she is still one of us and a Star Trek fan.

Never have the words Infinate Diversity in Infinate Combinations rang so true.

Awesome.