981 replies to this topic

[Gothneo]

Supposedly there was some (more) chaos on the set early on as they replaced the writers / show runner Kurtzman. 

 

There was absolutely no reason for the Pike to risk his life in the manner they showed... I can hear Riker lecturing Picard that the Captain's duty is to the ship and its safe operation... and they would be right. It was obviously a mcguffin to try and provide some bonding and / or give Mount more screen time. 

[MisterPL]

I can hear Riker lecturing Kirk the same way.

[Alteran195]

I enjoyed last weeks more, but this episode was decent and moved the story forward well.

This is the first time watching a TV show that a shot actually made me feel somewhat dizzy. The spinning bridge shot in the beginning was too much.

Really looking forward to next weeks.

[Gothneo]

We did get some answers about why the Klingons looked hairless for a bit... and it seems we finally closed a few questions from S1... and not entirely unsatisfactorily IMO.  The pacing still seems a bit askew... or maybe its just the focus? seems like they are trying to run about 4 or 5 sub plots and it jumps around a bit . Michelle Yeoh didn't disappoint. 

 

All around though, I thought it was a decent and enjoyable episode but I don't think its gonna win any detractors of the show over.

[Whirlygig]

Is Yeoh('s character) going to be this much of a two dimensional one trick pony on her own series? Sneer and put a hood up or down or both (and we are expected to go "Haha bad assssss" each time)?

The Internet is already up in arms over the facts that:
- A D7-like ship already appeared on Enterprise
- It doesnt seem to make much sense that it is called D7 as if there are a D1 thru D6 as well but for some reason the 7 was a new direction in ship design resulting from a half Starfleet human brain
- Apparently last season Lorca's shuttle identified a Klingon ship as the D7 already

Nobody seems to be complaining either that it's really stupid to think one man would ever be or want to be solely responsible for designing and proving out a large battleship all himself....and all before revealing it to the people who will be using it...I mean honestly I couldn't even get through writing that paragraph without realizing 200 other ways that whole scene was stupid.

[Whirlygig]

PS - There's also the general issue of exactly what Section 31 just did that nobody seems to be talking about.

Starfleet directly assassinated Klingons to influence their internal politics in its favor.

If you needed any confirmation about how Star Trek no longer exists as intended, that should do it.

[Alteran195]

PS - There's also the general issue of exactly what Section 31 just did that nobody seems to be talking about.
Starfleet directly assassinated Klingons to influence their internal politics in its favor.
If you needed any confirmation about how Star Trek no longer exists as intended, that should do it.

Thats the type of stuff Section 31 does. Why would people be talking about it like it isnt normal?

They tried to wipe out the founders too, not much different. Its all about ensuring the security of Starfleet and the Federation by any means necessary.

Thats the point of the organization.

[Whirlygig]

I'm rusty on DS9 events.

Were they planning to beam down Starfleet Section 31 agents to then literally execute Founders and/or anyone else with phaser blasts to the head?

 

There's a difference between casualties of war and assassination.

Instead of assassination, could they have first tried a little stronger diplomacy?

Could they have captured those Klingons and forced them to stand trial in front of their own people instead of just assassinating them?

Even if DS9 events developed to the point where that were their only option, I do not see evidence here that this was their ONLY option.  They just jumped right to the extreme "solution" because it made Yeoh look cool (they think).

 

Also I'm a little tired of Klingon politics looking like it always goes down as 5 or 10 Klingons in a room speaking at each other (often more eloquently than any human politicians of the last century I might add).  Even if you want to tell me that's how an empire works, it just seems so fake to me.  Then each time they do it fans praise it as a deeper examination of Klingon culture...not really....I still have no idea how Klingon *society* works.  You mean to tell me their likely billions of disparate citizens just all sit back and go along with everything decided by these 5 to 10 people?  Again, yeah, I get it, it's an Empire not a democracy or republic of any kind....but still...anybody feel me?

[MisterPL]

I think you're answering you're own question, Whirlygig. It's an Empire.

 

This handful of Klingons aren't just putting their political reputations on the line when they debate. They're risking getting a bat'leth to the heart on the spot if they offend the wrong person. If they're eloquent it's because they're measuring their words carefully. Just because it's a dictatorial government doesn't mean it has to be anti-intellectual.

[Gothneo]

The only way any of it makes sense is to throw all canon out... including it seems some of what may have even happened in S1. 

 

Whirlygig... I believe in D9, Section 31 did attempt to destroy the founders homeward, but got outflanked by them... so if they could have eliminated the entire threat that easily they would have. Again... not a fan of the idea of section 31 in Trek for every reason you've stated. but Kurtzman is a cosipergcy nut... so it doesn't surprise me that he likes it and is making it center stage. But keep your critiques coming. I like 'em!

[Alteran195]

The Empire has always been ruled by the High Council, its always been comprised of a small group of Klingons.

This is now showing the reunification of the Empire, and a new High Council made of the different great houses, some of which that want to fight for power.

I dont get peoples issue when this is how the Klingons have always been.

Kolsha or whatever his name was being dishonorable isnt much different than House Duras being the same.

[Gothneo]

My biggest issue with DISCOs Klingons isn't with the basic story (this time)... rather I still think the prosthetics make the Klingons look and act clumsy... its very obvious they inhibit the actors.

[Alteran195]

I think the teeth are the biggest issue, they definitely lightened up in some of the facial prosthetics around the mouth this season.

[Gothneo]

Ok, sorry... but Im gonna rant a bit about the Klingons....

 

The hands bother me as well... the elongated finders and a claws not only make grasping things look obviously clumsy... they are actually an impediment to doing fine work required of complex tool making... which would be a requirement for an advanced spacefaring race... I guess what I'm saying is I no longer find the Klingons believable as an advanced race... I find Yaphit from the Orville more believable simply because I can envision a gelatinous blob can be more nimble and capable then these versions of Klingons.  Finally...  in the fight scene... you can see how Tyler.. the Humanoid Klingon... can react better... and his flow isn't so obviously clumsy as the actors trying to move in those clumsy clumsy prosthetics and costumes. 

 

I'm glad they explained... and gave them their hair back... and I acknowledge that they have walked back changes made in S1 which didn't work... bu they need to do more... but IMO the designs are needless complex and in this day age, it not only detracts from the overall esthetics.. I think its a step backward from DS9 where the fluidity of the Klingons worked great. I just don't get why they decided to break something that seemed to work so well.

 

Ok, rant over. thanks for listening. 

[Damon1984]

I'm rusty on DS9 events.

Were they planning to beam down Starfleet Section 31 agents to then literally execute Founders and/or anyone else with phaser blasts to the head?

 

The thing that everyone (including the writers) seem to get wrong about section 31 is... they are NOT part of Starfleet. Starfleet already has it's own lawful(!) intelligence service called "Starfleet intelligence". Section 31 is not even part of the federation. It's an autonomous "organization". In other words; it's just a bunch of criminals. They speak and act for the federation the same way Nero's bunch of merry miners spoke and acted for the romulan empire or the same way the Maquis spoke and acted for the federation. They have their own agenda.

 

Into Darkness showed pretty clearly that Kurtzman has no Idea what section 31 actually is, and he still doesn't seem to get it.

[Gothneo]

Yep, but they are retconning the idea of Sec 31 to say that it was originally part of Starfleet... and think they are telling an intriguing story about how it was driven underground. 

[Whirlygig]

It all just goes to show the longer you stop to think about any given scene in Disco, the more you realize none of it makes sense. That's why they have to keep the pulse pounding!

In the old days we got mad if one episode per season offensively contradicted continuity, and we devoted collective millions of hours to whining about stupid pseudo-science (e.g. Lizard Janeway)...

Now we are to accept it at a rate of both happening at least once per episode.

Regarding Section 31...well, now they have Starfleet badges and practically everyone in Starfleet seems to not only have heard of them but also to be intrigued rather than off-put by them... So excuse me if I continue to complain they are assassinating targets despite having plenty of other options at their disposal.

[VulcanFanatic]

It's easier to make a loud, pulse pounding show that moves along at breakneck speed to keep the attention challenged people interested than to make a show that holds up to scrutiny and makes sense when you think about what's going on. Star Trek used to be about thought and discussion of deep subjects, it's now all about lense flares, explosions and social justice.

[Gothneo]

It all just goes to show the longer you stop to think about any given scene in Disco, the more you realize none of it makes sense. That's why they have to keep the pulse pounding!

In the old days we got mad if one episode per season offensively contradicted continuity, and we devoted collective millions of hours to whining about stupid pseudo-science (e.g. Lizard Janeway)...

Now we are to accept it at a rate of both happening at least once per episode.

Regarding Section 31...well, now they have Starfleet badges and practically everyone in Starfleet seems to not only have heard of them but also to be intrigued rather than off-put by them... So excuse me if I continue to complain they are assassinating targets despite having plenty of other options at their disposal.

 

Well... i dunno if I call every episode pulse pounding... and while It seems the writing has improved... its still a weak spot of this show.

 

Complain away about sec 31... I think you have plenty of support in that area. Everyone has a badge... but no one seems to wear one!

[djc242]

I wanted to watch episode 3 but it is not showing up on my app. Anyone else having that issue?