Jump to content


Photo

A Different, Theoretical Approach to AA/DST Figure Sales


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 weyoun_9

weyoun_9

    Master of the pre order.

  • Members
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:42 PM

So, I preface this by saying I realize y'all might think this is the worst idea ever. So, if you do, be kind. This is just an idea and I don't work for AA/DST so if you hate it you don't have to be worried that I'm going to implement it. But I'm curious what people think...

So, DST has a website through which collector's can purchase products. Granted, it's badly managed and rarely updated BUT...what if they tried the following:

  • Offer a two pack exclusively through their website...Chapel/Rand, for example.
  • Indicate the number of pre-sales needed to make this a viable project for them upfront.
  • Track presales (numbers only) on the site (ex.: "we have 1,243/3,000 presales")
  • Let us know upfront that the project will not go into production until the number is met. Do not give us a promised production date.
  • When the number is met, send a mass e-mail to all presale orders letting them know their order is now confirmed.
  • Let collectors visit the site to check on the progress of the two pack. Include updates such as, "The mold is complete (show pics) and we're getting ready to start producing"
  • Start a friendly pool for collector's to bet on the arrival/shipping dates. The winner gets a coupon for their next AA/DST product.


Here's why I think this would be cool:
  • With no official delivery date...no one could complain about a missed deadline.
  • With no other retailers involved, the presales become specifically based on our purchases.
  • If we, as collectors, see that the presale numbers are close but not there yet, we can do some of the marketing ourselves through this site and others.
  • With the "Figure Tracker" (Thank you Domino's) we, as collectors, feel included in the process. It'll be nice to know that "Your figure is in the Oven" and be able to check the process. It'd also be kind of cool to follow this progress and learn about all the steps involved.
  • It gives us a sense of ownership of the figure selection process. If it doesn't pre-sell...we have no one to blame but ourselves. If it does, then maybe it would lead to others.


I think all of what has been said before about the product waning, low interest, etc. is true to a degree. However, maybe an idea like this would be useful. The risk is low. They have enough unmade products to give this a go for a year or two. (Chapel/Rand, McCoy/Salt Vampire, Mark Lenard Romulan, Sisko/Dukat, Seven of Nine/Borg Queen, Borg Seven of Nine, Kruge/Maltz) and those are only the ones they showed us. They could even list all the previously released figures on this page and, if they got enough pre-sales, they could re-release those figures as well. Since there's no production without the right number of pre-sales, they lose no money. If they hit the number, then they at least "break even" or make a little profit...it would be up to them to determine what number of presold units makes it a viable option.

What do we think? Would this work? I realize that there would be staffing issues presented by this, but the nice part is they can simply figure that cost into the presale number. If it continues to work, they can add new characters, like Quark, and build the sculpting process into the figure tracker.

This is a new decade, a new economy, and as many have stated it's a bit of a stagnant period in the Star Trek action figure milieu. Maybe there are other ways to approach the production, sale, and marketing of these that they haven't considered. Think of it as MOB thinking. (Mint-Outside-the-Box). smile.gif

#2 WORF22

WORF22

    It's not a disease it's a hobby.

  • Members
  • 1,894 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N.J.

Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE (weyoun_9 @ Jan 5 2011, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, I preface this by saying I realize y'all might think this is the worst idea ever. So, if you do, be kind. This is just an idea and I don't work for AA/DST so if you hate it you don't have to be worried that I'm going to implement it. But I'm curious what people think...

So, DST has a website through which collector's can purchase products. Granted, it's badly managed and rarely updated BUT...what if they tried the following:

  • Offer a two pack exclusively through their website...Chapel/Rand, for example.
  • Indicate the number of pre-sales needed to make this a viable project for them upfront.
  • Track presales (numbers only) on the site (ex.: "we have 1,243/3,000 presales")
  • Let us know upfront that the project will not go into production until the number is met. Do not give us a promised production date.
  • When the number is met, send a mass e-mail to all presale orders letting them know their order is now confirmed.
  • Let collectors visit the site to check on the progress of the two pack. Include updates such as, "The mold is complete (show pics) and we're getting ready to start producing"
  • Start a friendly pool for collector's to bet on the arrival/shipping dates. The winner gets a coupon for their next AA/DST product.


Here's why I think this would be cool:
  • With no official delivery date...no one could complain about a missed deadline.
  • With no other retailers involved, the presales become specifically based on our purchases.
  • If we, as collectors, see that the presale numbers are close but not there yet, we can do some of the marketing ourselves through this site and others.
  • With the "Figure Tracker" (Thank you Domino's) we, as collectors, feel included in the process. It'll be nice to know that "Your figure is in the Oven" and be able to check the process. It'd also be kind of cool to follow this progress and learn about all the steps involved.
  • It gives us a sense of ownership of the figure selection process. If it doesn't pre-sell...we have no one to blame but ourselves. If it does, then maybe it would lead to others.


I think all of what has been said before about the product waning, low interest, etc. is true to a degree. However, maybe an idea like this would be useful. The risk is low. They have enough unmade products to give this a go for a year or two. (Chapel/Rand, McCoy/Salt Vampire, Mark Lenard Romulan, Sisko/Dukat, Seven of Nine/Borg Queen, Borg Seven of Nine, Kruge/Maltz) and those are only the ones they showed us. They could even list all the previously released figures on this page and, if they got enough pre-sales, they could re-release those figures as well. Since there's no production without the right number of pre-sales, they lose no money. If they hit the number, then they at least "break even" or make a little profit...it would be up to them to determine what number of presold units makes it a viable option.

What do we think? Would this work? I realize that there would be staffing issues presented by this, but the nice part is they can simply figure that cost into the presale number. If it continues to work, they can add new characters, like Quark, and build the sculpting process into the figure tracker.

This is a new decade, a new economy, and as many have stated it's a bit of a stagnant period in the Star Trek action figure milieu. Maybe there are other ways to approach the production, sale, and marketing of these that they haven't considered. Think of it as MOB thinking. (Mint-Outside-the-Box). smile.gif



great minds think alike!!!!!!!! wink.gif

I was thinking the same thing, I was just to lazy to type it all out. lol
one good thing is that with some of the figs. the proto types are made like Sisko with the Defiant chair Rand ,Chapel so we as collectors would just have to fill the order.

#3 Commodore Kor'Tar

Commodore Kor'Tar

    The Great Tribble Hunter

  • Members
  • 2,415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.S.S. Kahless NCC-76108 AKA Fort Worth TX
  • Interests:Playmates figures and ships (90s era), Art Asylum and DST figures and ships , Galoob figures and micro machines .

Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:22 PM

I love those ideas , lets hope that they are receptive to your imput.

#4 bgiles73

bgiles73

    Will work for toys.

  • Members
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisiana
  • Interests:"Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?"

Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:30 PM

It worked for Mattel with Masters of the Universe Classics and Ghostbusters. Masters of the universe was all but dead in 2003 after only a couple of years run of the reinvented line. Now look at all its success. Those figures sell out within hours of going up for sale! You can't tell me Masters of the Universe has a greater following than Star Trek. Maybe it's the fact that the Four Horsemen are working on that line. If DST could recruit that kind of talent and build the hype they could get that kind of business too. Thats what's lacking now...with Art Asylum it was all about the inmate attitude. DST lost that edge, but I think if they worked on it they could recapture that fire. Right now Mattel has the new cutting edge.

#5 Guest_1701_*

Guest_1701_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:30 PM

I think it's a great idea! There are definitely more creative ways to do things than DST are doing things at the moment but are DST organized enough to make this or any new way of releasing product work? No...

You're idea as good as it is, wouldn't work - not because it's not a great idea that is geared to build the interest in these figures again, but because the infrastructure just isn't there and as long as DST make some money off of something, I doubt very much anything will change for the better.

#6 FHC

FHC

    Owner

  • Owner
  • 4,495 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:32 PM

Yes I think that it could work.

#7 Gothneo

Gothneo

    Knows Paul Bunyan

  • Members
  • 5,753 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of sky Blue Oxen

Posted 05 January 2011 - 07:24 PM

Yep, I agree. I think Its a valid model that would work. DST could start with something that they already put effort into and move on to really new stuff if it works. but I think we would see the shipping cost increase, the same way we did with Matty collector, but I'd be fine with that.

#8 bgiles73

bgiles73

    Will work for toys.

  • Members
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisiana
  • Interests:"Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?"

Posted 05 January 2011 - 07:37 PM

Hey guys, I just noticed a new post on facebook from startrek.com that said a Star Trek Mr. Potatohead is in development! The post also said pictures were forthcoming. Who holds the Mr. Potatohead license? Hasbro of course! Maybe they are testing the waters! As soon as I hear more, I'll certainly post a link!



Also trekmovie has pictures up for Star Trek: Heroclix !

http://trekmovie.com...miniature-game/

#9 Jedigreedo

Jedigreedo

    Dances with Toys

  • Members
  • 1,443 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma

Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:50 PM

I dunno... Mr. Potatohead is used for various other licenses that Hasbro hasn't ventured into action figure territory for, most notably sports teams ranging from professional level to even college teams. Although, technically they have already made at least one bit of Star Trek merchandise with the Star Trek Monopoly set.

#10 2thGuy

2thGuy

    Lives in the city on the edge of forever

  • Members
  • 156 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntington Beach, CA

Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:43 AM

QUOTE (bgiles73 @ Jan 5 2011, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey guys, I just noticed a new post on facebook from startrek.com that said a Star Trek Mr. Potatohead is in development! The post also said pictures were forthcoming. Who holds the Mr. Potatohead license? Hasbro of course! Maybe they are testing the waters! As soon as I hear more, I'll certainly post a link!

http://www.facebook....130805723649290

Also trekmovie has pictures up for Star Trek: Heroclix !

http://trekmovie.com...miniature-game/



Gads, they've gotta be kidding. That'll be showing up at Big Lots in no time, right along side of the ST Playmates stuff that didn't sell. I can see it now: Spud Trek, mashing the final frontier.

#11 CanOpener1256

CanOpener1256

    I know what a Pog is.

  • Members
  • 118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, Texas
  • Interests:anything Star Trek, especially ship models from Art Asylum and others.

Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:02 PM

yep .. marketing is the key. An updated web site would rock. Your ideas are great. Hope they listen. I've sent them mails in the past suggesting similar ideas. DST is really missing the boat and losing fans. Product desire has to be cultivated and maintained. There is nothing to whet the appetite other than rumors and hearsay.

Every toy goes through a development and creation process. Somebody is working on it somewhere in the world and if they are a professional, they should be able to tell you where they are in the process.

I keeping hearing from DST how "they announced product too early" and won't make that mistake again. To me, it wasn't announced to early ... but post announcement communication of the trails and tribulations of producing that toy was non-existent: except through hints.

If there is some idiotic lawyer counseling DST to keep quiet to avoid lawsuits, complaints, etc he needs to be transported into space.

Star Trek has always been a niche market. Will always be one. So you need to communicate and reach out .. just like you suggested.

#12 TheHSBR

TheHSBR

    Mirror Universe Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 3,621 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Interests:This will be quite the list...Star Trek, Star Wars, wrestling, He-Man, comic books, GI Joe, video games, and most of all collecting action figures!

Posted 08 January 2011 - 02:29 PM

Well you have to really build this up as something special and Im not sure a Chapel/Rand two pack will generate the level of excitement that MOTUC did. I really dont think that the interest is there from a general star trek consumer base to support the old DST/AA line anymore. If the presales arent there for retailers who normally buy over what is needed, Im not sure the presales will be there for the individual consumer either.
I say start over. MOTUC started at the beginning with the top characters of He-Man, Skeletor, Beast Man etc. I think even Mattel was surprised by the level of success these figures initially had. Maybe DST needs to look into this type of system but start over from scratch with the line with a new Kirk figure that reinvents the style of the figures and go from there. You may commence the throwing of the stones now.

#13 weyoun_9

weyoun_9

    Master of the pre order.

  • Members
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:04 AM

No stone throwing...that's certainly a way to go that could work. I'd only counter by suggesting doing all the captains at once. They've saturated the Kirk market and opening with Kirk, or Kirk only, would feel to many 9at least me) like more of the same. They'd be done before they started.

#14 VulcanFanatic

VulcanFanatic

    Leonard Nimoy fan

  • Members
  • 3,165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southeastern North Carolina

Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE (TheHSBR @ Jan 8 2011, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe DST needs to look into this type of system but start over from scratch with the line with a new Kirk figure that reinvents the style of the figures and go from there. You may commence the throwing of the stones now.


I am not sure what you mean by reinventing, but i wouldnt be in favor of any scale changes that would place any future offerings from DST at odds with the current figures. If they could figure out how to improve upon the current scale then yes, i would be in favor of that, and possibly of the new system of offering the figures to the masses as described earlier in this thread topic.

#15 TheHSBR

TheHSBR

    Mirror Universe Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 3,621 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Interests:This will be quite the list...Star Trek, Star Wars, wrestling, He-Man, comic books, GI Joe, video games, and most of all collecting action figures!

Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:52 AM

Improving scuplts and changing the overall "style" of the figures to differentiate them from he previous line. For example, I think people may be tired of the same mold of TOS pants that have been used by DST for nearly a decade now. Its a good scuplt but too many of my figures look like copies of one another. Its time to reinvent the look. Im not sure if that means a drastic scale change but as I see it the old DST/AA line died a few years ago.

#16 Guest_1701_*

Guest_1701_*
  • Guests

Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (TheHSBR @ Jan 9 2011, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Improving scuplts and changing the overall "style" of the figures to differentiate them from he previous line. For example, I think people may be tired of the same mold of TOS pants that have been used by DST for nearly a decade now. Its a good scuplt but too many of my figures look like copies of one another. Its time to reinvent the look. Im not sure if that means a drastic scale change but as I see it the old DST/AA line died a few years ago.


I agree with this.

#17 bgiles73

bgiles73

    Will work for toys.

  • Members
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisiana
  • Interests:"Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?"

Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:43 PM

I agree as well. My wishes would be for a 6" line similar to Mattel's Movie Masters line. I'd love a 4" line as well, but that would probably only work if it coincided with a movie or tv series release. I really like the hyper articulation of the Movie Masters line. I also prefer my figures heads an hands to actually be molded in flesh tones as opposed to being painted that way. One of my Kirk's lost all the paint from his nose in a tumble off a shelf. I'm reminded of an old "I Love Lucy" episode every time I see him.

#18 Alex

Alex

    Yes the Troi figures hair worries me.

  • Members
  • 926 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:14 PM

I absolutely love your idea, Weyoun_9! biggrin.gif If memory serves me correctly though, someone here suggested it, or a similar idea before; it was well-received by fans then, but there were supposedly logistical issues that DST would have to address, including:

- Bypassing online retailers without angering the aforementioned retailers who sell the majority of their products

- Setting up a "real-time" tracker to keep count of pre-orders, and preventing people from "bailing/backing out" of pre-orders based on early mock-up photos once the figure goes into production; in other words, making it so that fans don't "stick DST with the bill" if you will

- See above comment for "work-in-progress" photos; some people have jumped the gun as a result of these in the past and we've all gotten burned as a result

- Increased prices as a result of no retailer/warehouse to ship the product to once it leaves China

In truth, this isn't too different from the pre-order system that DST uses; the "big change" here would be that we'd get to see how many more people would need to pre-order an item in order for it to be released. DST has said that they've produced items at a loss in the past, due to fan demand, and that there have been times when they haven't sold. Since DST doesn't see a dime from our orders until they ship, they're technically producing everything at a loss, with some level of guarantee that the item will sell, and our pre-orders or lack of pre-orders really do serve as votes for what does and doesn't get made. When someone says "I'm not going to preorder 'X,'" whatever 'X' is, it ultimately serves as a "vote" against that item being made under DSTs current system.

That actually might be the real trick; making the number of required pre-orders "transparent" in a semi-real-time fashion. For example, take the new Enterprise-E; I'm making up numbers here, but let's say that DST needs to sell 1701 ships to make it worth producing at a loss, 2500 to break even, and they want to sell 5000 to turn a reasonable profit. Let's also say that 3,000 is the number required to justify production to compensate for people potentially backing out of pre-orders and/or the toy tanking upon launch. Using this example, the day the ship was announced, a "Needs 3,000 pre-orders worldwide" badge/counter could have been placed on DST's website, and on all websites selling the ship. Over the course of the month some people put preorders in, some online retailers might order stock for their business, and at the end of the month, the badge/counter/countdown clock reads "1700 pre-orders placed," a month later it reads "3500 pre-orders placed; ship in production." This would work too, but it creates a potential problem as well: In the example, DST wants to sell 5,000 ships, and has pre-orders for 3,500 of them. Now let's also say that as soon as the "ship in production" announcement is made, pre-orders grind to a halt; does DST shelve the ship because nobody else is pre-ordering, or do they produce it and hope that they can sell 1,500 more units once its released? What if 500 people back out and DST is just barely able to justify production? While the numbers I'm using are admittedly made up, the problem itself isn't; this is what happened with the figure (T&T O'Brien?) that NFCC was literally giving away for free with the purchase of an Enterprise-E.

Speaking of the Enterprise-E, the original run sold remarkably well on pre-order; so well in fact that DST did a second short run in 2007 expecting to be unable to meet demand for the ship. Then, once the first Enterprise-E's showed up and people took pictures of them, wrote scathing reviews, and shared those with their friends and other forum members, many people canceled their preorders. This effectively left people like Rick who run online stores like NFCC with warehouses full of unsold goods that had previously been sold hours earlier. Not everyone canceled their preorders though, and there were people who appreciated their new Enterprise-Es. Eventually they wrote positive reviews, and some new consumers, as well as those who had previously canceled preorders warmed up to the ship and bought it. The Ent-E did eventually sell, and sold quite well, justifying the second run, but imagine how much better sales would have been if there wasn't a massive pre-order cancellation. With the Enterprise-E and similar items, there's a good chance that the item in question will eventually sell. With more niche items though, such as non-bridge crew figures, this chance may not be as high.

I'd personally love the Sisko+Command Chair and Maltz/Kruge 2-Pack that I preordered to find their way onto shelves. The Sisko+Command Chair preorder cancellation seems to be the one that keeps coming back to bite DST in the behind, in part because it seems like less has been done to try and get Sisko+Command Chair onto shelves then what's been done for the Salt Vampire, Rand, and Chapel. The Maltz/Kruge 2-Pack also left DST with some harsh criticism, but CBS warned DST that said 2-Pack wouldn't sell, and DST took a chance believing that it would. Chuck mentioned that the preorder numbers were ridiculously low and I think he might have even quoted a rough estimate once, stating that the loss incurred would be too significant of a risk to justify production of an item that might not sell, even if it were produced.

I have to be honest; when I see an item I want, I preorder it. This way, if it gets made, I feel good knowing that I got my "vote" in for the item to be made, and ensured its production. If I don't preorder something from DST, then I don't have the right to complain when they pull the plug on it due to a lack of preorders, but if they pull the plug on an item that I preordered, then I do have the right to complain about them pulling the plug on the item. I've preordered several of the new Ent-E as well, partially in the effort to help move production along, so trust me, if DST pulls the plug on that, I'll be complaining quite a bit. wink.gif Given that the new Enterprise-E could very well be what people expected in 2006 though, I don't think that DST should have too much trouble snapping up preorders; ships sell well, the current Ent-E sold well in the long run, the Ent-E is a fan favorite, and the demand for an updated Ent-E has been rather high.

Don't get me wrong, Weyoun_9, I'm not trying to tear apart/bash your idea, because I really do like it, and I really would like to see it implemented. I just understand that there are some logistical issues that DST would need to work out in order for it to work, but maybe, just maybe if DST attempted something like this and it did well, they'd be willing to take more risks with Trek toys. And maybe, just maybe if it did really poorly, fans would finally realize that DST knows what they're talking about. smile.gif

Finally, there is one more way to ensure that a massive pre-order cancellation doesn't occur, but most people probably wouldn't like it. When preorders were new, and generally reserved for video and computer games, people were required to make a money down deposit, usually about $10.00 US dollars. (If you look at the people who still have their original "Duke Nukem Forever" preorders, you can see just how much they put down; 2K is supposedly going to honor those pre-orders made in 1996. biggrin.gif Talk about going the extra mile!) The deposit was non-refundable, and if the game was canceled, you were out $10.00 dollars. This was done effectively to prevent people for preordering games and then canceling their preorders, but the practice was dropped when game developers realized that more people would preorder an item when there was no money down involved, and the cancellations of preorders were usually well under 1%. DST could try something similar to prevent people from canceling preorders en masse, but it could also drive legitimate customers away from preordering entirely. I just figured this was worth mentioning since DST has never required money down on a preorder. smile.gif




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users