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Status of DST's Star Trek license.


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#81 Gothneo

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:51 AM

I love your enthusiasm, but I just don't see DST ramping up to that kind of volume, as in putting out that many new releases, I think once the specialty or boutique shop model collapsed in the US, DST pretty much shrunk its output to focus on just comic shops... and thus comic shop fan-boys.

 

In doing so they missed new opportunities that Hasbro, McFarlane and NECA seemed to have found and capitalized on. 



#82 JonWes

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:31 AM

I do think it's possible that, with a series on the air, there might be more of a chance for Trek march in general to become more popular. Movies, in general, seem poor equipped to support action figure lines these days. The exceptions being Star Wars and the Marvel lines, mostly, all of which are tied to longer-running and established narratives. Star Trek has basically been MIA, and the movies came and went each time they were out, which didn't really stoke fandom or were able to sustain any sort of toy line. 

 

I think Discovery could buck that trend, even with shortened seasons. Maybe I'm somewhat biased here, in that Discovery made me an active Trek fan for the first time in about a decade, really. But I don't think I'll be alone in that. Whether DST will or CAN properly capitalize on that... well, I hope so! Their development times seem really long, but that's probably partially the amount of resources they can justify on any given property. With McFarlane stepping in for action figures and role-play (something I hope they are successful at) then I'd be fine if DST focused on ships. The role play is the one area that makes me nervous, I have to admit, though, with McFarlane. I feel like they can produce figures of a good quality, judging by their most recent efforts. At least on par with DST. But DST really do a beautiful job with the role play. And that's the part where McFarlane could fall down.



#83 MisterPL

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:57 PM

Even Star Wars and Marvel have a constant presence on TV thanks to animated series. 

 

Discovery might bump interest up a tick but, being behind a pay wall, it's not like most people will stumble upon it by channel surfing. It's a destination program. Unless CBS ultimately puts it in syndication (in 15 years?), I don't see it having much of an impact on mass market merchandise. I hope I'm wrong.



#84 JonWes

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:39 PM

That's not a bad point, but I don't think it's hopeless. Stranger Things is a behind a paywall, and has a ton of merchandise in its second season. I'm not comparing the two apples to apples. Obviously Stranger Things became a phenomenon. But we're talking about a collectors market versus a mass market. We won't see a Playmates-like line again. But something aimed at collectors like DST and McFarlane's stuff? I can see that.



#85 1701D

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 03:54 PM

I think JonWes has a very good point. Star Trek, after 12 years is really back. The movies have come and gone without much in the way of anything and Im not sure that Paramount are in any rush to put a fourth movie into production - my guess on the movie front is that theyll reboot the movie franchise again.

The interesting thing though is that Discovery isnt all thats coming and sure, its all going to be behind a pay wall - but isnt everything? Crikey, the price of a movie ticket is double, if not triple that of a subscription to All Access/Netflix.

Itll be interesting to see what is revealed at Toy fair because I think with the success of Discovery, companies like DST, McFarlane, funko, QMx, will want to get into Star Trek.

The likes of Hasbro it Playmates or Mattel though? I highly doubt Star Trek will ever see that kind of mass market toy line again. Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, James Bond and even the Marvel Netflix Tv series dont have extensive toy lines.

This is why weve not heard that DST have dropped Star Trek, this is why every ask DST, they say theyre still working on Star Trek product.

Itll come, it just depends on what comes next from CBS and Paramount.

#86 Gothneo

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:38 PM

Current announcement is the 4th and final installment of the JJ Verse is in development...and will be released June 2019... so we're 18 months out from that. In the meantime Discovery is gonna be it and at least its got people talking more often then every 2 1/2 years!

 

In the US most people can still go see a Matinee for under $8USD... so a months sub is about the same a Ticket. 

 

Also... theres rumblings that Hasbro may acquire Mattel...  point being Hasbro may be the only viable expectation between the two... especially if Hasbro buys them.



#87 1701D

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 06:15 PM

I doubt very much that the 4th movie will happen. The simple reason being is that the rebooted movies have made less money with each movie. When the arrow is going down on the graph, thats not a good sign, even if it is Star Trek.

What Im guessing will come next is a rebooted movie that is maybe a joint venture between Paramount and CBS and based on an event in Star Trek that is popular... I would like to see The Romulans Wars perhaps? Its a fantastic sandpit of possibilities both to delve into the mythology and canon but something that could be developed to appeal to a mainstream audience. A trilogy of movies, really go all guns blazing, film them back to back, something that would both be a sequel to Enterprise and lead into Discovery but be its own thing for Paramount to do which ever way they see fi, with new and recast known characters.

I mean why not have it based around the USS Kelvin? Chris Hemsworth as the lead as George Kirk with Captain Robau in command, cast a young Lt. Christopher Pike, even get Scott Bakula to appear in it as Fleet Admiral Archer. Cast some great actors to play Romulan commanders, style the movie so it blends both Enterprise, Kelvin and Prime TOS/DSC aesthetics...

I think it would be a great way to not totally forget about the Kelvin Timeline but to really move on into something that really respects the legacy rather than reimagining or rebooting it. To the average joe public, this would be a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars epic, with brilliant characters that you fall in love with, and for the fans it would delve into the lore and the canon of an aspect of Star Trek myth that hasnt ever been done properly.

I think Paramount need to embrace the importance of fandom, not just with Star Trek but TNMT and Transformers too because so far, with all three, each franchise has been woefully underdeveloped and underserved in terms of the already rich and extensive backstory these franchises have - not to mention the desire from audiences to see something that takes them back to these worlds they remember growing up with.

Quickly remembering that this is the DST section of this board....

Look, I think Star Trek isnt a property that is known for having an extensive toy line. The 90s was the biggest its ever been and ok we may see that again but whats more likely is that we will see a line of merchandise that resembles the Stranger Things model.

Star Wars, Marvel, Transformers, TMNT, they are all known for having extensive toy lines that are equal in size to the properties they are based off of - Transformers was a toy line before it was a TV show, certainly in the states, so I think that whilst wed all love to see a huge selection of Star Trek product in the toy shops again, Star Trek just isnt that property and it never really was, except for the 4/5 years Playmates got a ton of Trek merch out in the 90s.

Even if Discovery becomes the next big thing after Game of Thrones and Stranger Things, were not going to see a massive toy line to accompany it.

What we will see is more pop funko vinyls, an extensive McFarlane range of action figures and role play and if DST get their act together, potentially a more frequent release schedule of product based on the always popular classic shows.

I just have this feeling though that DST are figuring out how to compete with McFarlane; Chuck has nothing on Todd; Todd is a guy that will throw McFarlane into Star Trek and hell try and put out as much as he can.

DST have got to change their game. It could be that they drop the action figures completely and do the electronic ships, including a Discovery; which McFarlane dont seem to be that bothered about doing themselves.

#88 MisterPL

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:18 AM

A big part of a franchise like Star Trek is licensed merchandise.

 

Venerable properties stand to make more money selling toys than selling movie tickets. Hell, Marvel doesn't even want Spider-Man rights back from Sony. They actually pay Columbia Pictures to make Spider-Man movies because Marvel has the merchandising rights and makes hundreds of millions of dollars every time they do.

 

Unfortunately Trek's franchise is fractured. It used to be one, big, happy license but it's been chopped into segments. I believe the sooner Viacom (not CBS or Paramount but Viacom) can bring all the Treks back under one umbrella, the more successful it'll be.

 

The last movie lost about $41.5 million against its production budget alone. Home video and other revenue streams can help close that gap but merchandising for a tentpole movie like this should be huge. 

 

That said, a consistent presence elsewhere – even behind a paywall – helps.



#89 Gothneo

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:50 PM

Actually.. shouldn't it be National Amusements which needs to consolidate Trek... and they could as its National Amusements that owns a majority of both Viacom (and thus Paramount) as well as CBS?



#90 MisterPL

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:05 PM

If they're the ones who split Trek between Paramount (film) and CBS (TV) then they're the ones who should put it back together. Strange that they manage the licensing all under one group (CBS). Disney has different licensing divisions for Lucasfilm and Marvel but that makes sense. (Until the Guardians of the Galaxy fly back in time to a galaxy far, far away....)



#91 1701D

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:42 PM

Is Star Trek really like other franchises with extensive toy lines that make more money than the movies? Was it ever that and should it ever be that?

Even if it were brought back under one licence, theres still the small matter of making people WANT to fall in love with Star Trek enough for them to start collecting the merchandise.

Its not that I dont agree with you, I think the sooner Star Trek is whole again, the better. However, Id question whether or not its merchandising power can match that of Marvel, Star Wars, DC, TMNT, Transformers and other BIG tentpole franchises.

Star Trek isnt a franchise like any of the big brand names, its a TV franchise that has had moderate to down right awful success on the big screen compared to Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Transformers...

Merchandise for Star Trek, whether a complete franchise or segmented into CBS and Paramount, is not the driving force behind Star Treks success and has never been. This is perhaps why Discovery is doing so well and why streaming was the best place for it. Streaming is very popular among teens, young adults and people in their 30s plus and while more and more kids are watching shows like Voltron on Netflix, parents are still the ones subscribing and controlling their kids access to services like Netflix. Star Trek isnt a brand kids under the age of 17/18 really know anymore, those just turning 17, live in a world where Star Trek was never a big deal, barely on TV and only in the cinemas as something that only loosely resembled Star Treks driving message and cerebral tone. Since Enterprise and even before, Star Trek appealed to the older audience, today that hasnt changed, its just that now Star Trek, like Stranger Things, Game of Thrones, is now a show that is modern, contemporary and well written rather than spun off from a successful formula from the 80s/90s. Star Trek along with Stranger Things and GoT are all shows that dont have masses of merchandise to their name, why? Because no Mattel or Hasbro or Playmates will ever touch a licence that is fundamentally against their key demographic of kids aged between 2 - 12.

Star Trek, like James Bond, is a billion dollar franchise but not due to the success of merchandise. The fan base is made up of an older audience, the merchandise that seems to sell is collectible items such as the QMx items and the avanos replicas, the part works subscription from Eaglemoss... everything an adult collector would be interested in rather than a kid just looking for a cool toy.

Thats not to say kids dont like Star Trek and wouldnt buy Star Trek Toys, but its clear to me that Star Trek has more in common with James Bond than it does with Star Wars in terms of its business model.

Could Star Trek appeal to the younger market and become a real competitor in the toy aisles? Could there be a bigger Star Trek presence in mass market retail chains across the world? Absolutely, but that has to come from either Paramount or CBS in terms of the kind of production kids would find appealing; an animated TV series is perhaps an ideal way to introduce Star Trek to a new young generation. A family show, something Mum and Dad dont mind watching with their son or daughter. That though, does not rely on Viacom bringing the franchise back together again, that relies on either Bad Robot/Paramount making a decision to do an animated series set in the Kelvin Timeline or CBS deciding to partner with IDW or another animation studio and doing an animated show based on something more family friendly than Discovery.

Trek is in a good place right now. In an ideal place for a company like DST right now because Star Trek: Discoverys success plays into their wheel house by being a hit with an older audience. They are not in the toy game to sell toys to kids, they are in it to sell to older teens, nerds and geeks between 20 - 35 if not older like us, with Star Trek theyre perhaps working on things that theyll release at Toy Fair but I think where all this has gone wrong is with the 2009 movie, going back to Playmates and Hasbro rather than staying with Diamond Select for toys based on the Abrams 2009 movie. It also has a lot to do with the fact that Paramount seemed to feel very timid and cautious with Star Trek. I dont think for a moment, they had any idea how positive the reception to Star Trek Would be and so without a proper plan in place to enable Star Treks appeal with a younger audience to develop, they did... nothing.

Paramount Pictures perhaps should of been far quicker, far more ballsy with their Star Trek licence and really put pressure on CBS to agree with Abrams and them on a plan to make Trek a multi-platform franchise, ok not as radical a plan as Abrams had initially, but I think Paramount and CBS should of hammered out some kind of deal that would of then seen Star Trek become a franchise that could of held its own in the toy aisle with the likes of Marvel and Star Wars and WWE, and TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers.

As I say; Star Trek though just isnt that franchise, it isnt like a Marvel or a Star Wars, it in general does not appeal to those who frequent toys r us; its James Bond in terms of its appeal and merchandising. At the very height of its popularity in the 90s, it was perhaps comparable to the success the Doctor Who brand has had over a number of years since that show was relaunched in terms of its merchandising and brand power among kids and adults but no, Trek isnt a franchise that relies on toy sales, at least not anymore and unless theres a new kids show coming out that appeals to both a brand new generation of younger people as well as keeps the fans entertained or at least something they feel they can watch with their kids, then like Game of Thrones, James Bond, Stranger Things and those kinds of properties, Star Trek will continue to be a successful franchise for the quality of its TV series rather than its merchandise.

#92 Gothneo

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:34 PM

Remember they merchandise everything...not just toys... bathrobes, soap, anything! The huge Merchandising really went into full gear with TMP. Man I remember books... bags... stickers... just lots of merchandise! 



#93 1701D

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

The problem here is that you guys are comparing Star Trek today with Star Trek... 20, 30, 40 years ago. Not only has Star Trek changed, the world has changed. Business has changed, the financial world has changed... the film and television industry has changed and continues to change as we enter the era of tv on demand and streaming services and that in turn, changes the way a show/franchise is marketed and ultimately, merchandised.

Franchises like Star Trek just arent merchandised as much now as they once were and its not because Star Trek is split in two, its because Star Trek is simply not a brand kids recognise or want. Its barely a franchise or brand a mainstream audience want like they want merch based on Stranger Things or GOT. That could all change sure, like Stranger Things, Star Trek merchandise could pick up for season 2 of Discovery but so far it hasnt really changed in over a decade. The last time Star Trek Toys were successful in global mass market retail outlets was 1994 and the last time I saw anything remotely Star Trek in normal high street shops was back in 2009 and 2009 only. Since then Ive had to resort to eBay, amazon and American retailers Entertainment Earth, Think Geek and on occasion the UK based Forbidden Planet.

As for other merch besides toys... theres zero stuff on the high street mass market retailers in the UK. With the success of Discovery, that may change gradually as we go into season 2 and that show goes from strength to strength but only if that happens and CBS develop other productions that enhance the Star Trek brand among audiences urging retailers to stock Star Trek merch because its popular.

Kids stuff though... Star Trek has got to pull out its a game to compete in that market and I seriously dont think it ever could or would ever want to. If it ever does, itd be out of sheer luck more than anything else, Paramount or CBS just release something that audiences go nuts for and that in turn pushes up demand for toys based off of whatever this theoretical hit could be.

I would though like to point out that we are still getting bath robes, after shave, gifts, action figures, model ships, part works subscription services, books, novelty items, clothing etc... theyre just available through different means; online mostly because thats where Star Trek fans shop. If they shopped for things in retail outlets then the likes of Tescos, Sainsburys, M&S, ASDA, TRU, HMV... etc... Toys R Us, Walmart, Target, Walgreens, Hot Topic, Game Stop... Smyths Toys, Argos, The Entertainer , John Lewis, Debenhams... would be stocking things.

#94 Gothneo

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 04:58 AM

I'm not comparing trek today of trek in the past. I was just saying they really ramped it up way back when. and though they don't have the toy presence there still is product on shelves... Toys-R-Us has stuff. Barbie and Megablocks... big box stores like Walmart and Target certainly have media, but you can also find Licensed T's and some other merchandise. Its not a huge presence, but its here in the US...

 

we don't have  Smyths Toys, Argos, The Entertainer , John Lewis, Debenhams, Tescos, Sainsburys, M&S, or ASDA here. Hot Topics website says they carry the new Mirror universe Tribbles... I don't go to hot topics... but I could see that those would be in the stores. I bet I can find some Trek Merchandise in a Walgreens too.

 

I guess.... maybe... the UK doesn't have the fans ;-) 



#95 JonWes

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:48 AM

I don't totally understand where this topic went off to. lol. I don't think we'll see a Playmates-like toyline again. That's partially due to Trek being for an older audience now, mostly, but also because action figure lines in general just aren't what they used to be. But there's plenty of opportunity for lots of figures to be made in the adult collectible market. NECA have had huge success with their Alien line, for instance. There's no reason that, with a new TV show, we couldn't see more of that product in places like Toys R Us and specialty stores. :)



#96 Whirlygig

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 01:24 PM

So it's been since May, when we were first told by Zach that Borg will be "offered" soon, and would put to bed everyone's concerns.  And that two ships were more or less complete.

 

Now 6 months later you get the same broken record status update.  Actually, you get responses that reverse the progress backward a bit.

 

Guys, this is ridiculous.  Are there dates on these "AskDST" questions?  They probably just sprinkle some in that they answered months ago and didn't publish yet.



#97 Gothneo

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 02:58 PM

I don't think fans hardly even ask Trek Questions anymore. 

 

there was one in the #379... but this is all you get...

 

 

There is wide demand for a quality TNG tricorder, with fans resorting to cumbersome kits to try to kludge their own. Heck, the design even inspired an XPrize competition. Why not make the definitive replica to round out your Star Trek lineup?

DSTChuck: Right now, we have no plans for a TNG Tricorder.

 



#98 JonWes

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 03:01 PM

Yeah, I have found the Ask DST thing a LITTLE meaningless for a while. I keep hoping we'll see some news soon. I'm surprised they seem so reticent on the TNG Tricorder.



#99 MisterPL

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 03:06 PM

I'm not even sure why DST has the license at this point. It must be really inexpensive with almost no annual guarantee. The only categories DST offers that McFarlane apparently doesn't are electronic ships, block figures, and kitchenware. When was the last time any of those hit retail?



#100 Whirlygig

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 03:46 PM

Yeah, who wants a TNG tricorder...except almost every fan of TNG ever?  That would just be a stupid idea.  And how complicated, we can't possibly budget for more than 3 lights in a device, especially if they have to blink in some kind of screen accurate pattern!

 

I actually just bought a Playmates TNG tricorder, my first one ever, from a hobby shop a couple months ago.  Always wanted one.  It was still in the box with all stickers still on the sheet, and you bet your behind I applied them.  Meticulously, with tweezers!  I think it was $25 or so.  That will have to do me for now I guess.






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