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#21 FHC

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 11:06 AM

They should have reversed his head so they were both looking the same way I think.

#22 Cpt. Phil T. Berns

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 11:33 AM

They could have flipped his head and body, leaving the hat as is. But then the shadows on Artie wouldn't more or less match those on Jim. I think they should have flipped the hat and left his face and body as is. But most importantly, they should have added a shadow on Artie's forehead.

#23 JMW326

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 01:32 PM

Sorry Berns. I didnt realize that this was a challenge but if you want to be that way about it I will let you know some things about your analasys and the WWW promo art that you missed. Give me a little time to put it together with some lovely visuals like you did for the BSG photo.

#24 JMW326

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 02:20 PM

First things first. When doing comp work (yes even proffesionals) you are rarely going to get all the shadows to line up exact. Why you ask? Because a when you tput together something like a poster, dvd art, or things like that, you are usually mixing different photos that have been taken in lighting often times in different studios. And shadows are added digitaly as well as removed or painted over. So any photo that has been used in something like your example will be very hard to tell what is actualy real or what has been added or taken away. So that brings us to your WWW "challenge". Lets start with lighting. Both of the photos of West and Artimus have been severly touched up. It looks as if the origianl lighting on one was very bright and washed out alot of things on Jimmy boy so they touched up and digitaly (or otherwise) washed out Arty. This effect did remove some of the shadows which of course are falling in a different direction do to the photos beig taken using different lighting and probably even in a different studio. In my "proffesional" opinion the shadow falling from Jims nose has been enhanced a little to much and looks fake now and you can tell that it was added (or just enhanced) after the photo was taken. The photo of Arty does have a shadow from his hat that falls on his forehead. It comes from his right side near the temple hair line to his eyebrow. But wither due to irect lighting comming from the lighting in the studio or froom touch ups later on it is gone from the rest of his face. That small shadow would match with the overhead lighting that was obviously placed above and to the right of arty do to the light wash on the top right of the hat and bill of the hat. Now looking into Arty and all of th shadows on him you can definately tell that there was alot (I mean alot) of work done to that photo to make it fit in with the photo of Jim. There are hints of natural shadows all over it that do not match with the post added shadows. Such as the light on the right side of the hat not matching the shadows ont he left side. And the shadows and darkness of his jacket not matching any of the lighting. Now this is not necassarily a mistake. It jsut means that the person that was working on this piece of promo art was assigned the wonderfull job of making two photos that had very different lighting match for the project. It happens all the time. Now I dont know if this was done by a first year intern or a seasoned pro but when makig these things up you dont have the luxery of sitting and going over every little detail untill it is perfect as you would as a hobbiest. You get assigned a project and have a certain amount of time to do it and a certain set of guidelines that have to be followed. Once it is sent to print and the money is spent that is it, it is over and there is no looking at it and going "oh I missed that shadow, I thnk I will go back and fix it" (unless of course there is a glaring mistake like someone in the background with his pants down). This is just normal in the industry. I bet if you start pulling out DVD sleeves and movie posters and realy start to look at them you will start seeing alot of things like this. It is just one of those things. Nowif you cant see the things I am tlaking about I will be more than happy to take the picture into photoshop and draw arrows and circle things but I am sure that if you look hard enough you will see it.


Oh and one more thing. I have never been one that would not admit when I am wrong so I wanted to let you know that I went back and checked the episode and looked over that scene several times (this first chance I have had since this topic started) and it looks like you are correct abou thte leg. From the picture itslef it doenst look like much but when you actualy watch it you can see it move and it is his leg that has not been taken out. So yes BErns you were right about that part.

#25 Cpt. Phil T. Berns

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE(JMW326 @ Jun 21 2008, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh and one more thing. I have never been one that would not admit when I am wrong so I wanted to let you know that I went back and checked the episode and looked over that scene several times (this first chance I have had since this topic started) and it looks like you are correct abou thte leg. From the picture itslef it doenst look like much but when you actualy watch it you can see it move and it is his leg that has not been taken out. So yes BErns you were right about that part.


Thank you. It means a lot to me that you say that. Also it takes courage to admit one was wrong. So I respect you a lot more now!

And yes, there are other things wrong in the www picture. But the hat is the most obvious blunder. And indeed, when composing such a picture one cannot match all the shadows. And one shouldn't. Everyone knows the different characters come from different pictures. But if one adds something like a hat to a character, one should at least make it look as if the hat was not digitally added.

#26 The_Donster

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 12:32 AM

Oh Berns, I wish I had the amount of time you have to kill tongue.gif Glad to see you and JMW326 found a common ground on the topic though wink.gif

#27 Cpt. Phil T. Berns

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 01:26 AM

QUOTE(The_Donster @ Jun 22 2008, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh Berns, I wish I had the amount of time you have to kill


Comes with the job. If I had work every day, I'd be rich. But I get by with only about 4 or 5 jobs (which take only a few hours to complete) a month. But I'm not lazy. I wish I had work every day.

This is what I do for a living: Galactica Trailers Characters, however these are unpaid samples I made at home, I do most of the paid work in Flemish (Dutch, BE).

Here's a clip I acted in.
I'll translate:
- Boyfriend: I'm a bit nervous though.
- Daughter: My dad's OK.
- Father: (to daughter) Go to your room ... (to boyfriend) but you, STAY HERE!

Here's another clip. The dialogue is not important, the director wanted to make a visual weird looking movie.

#28 pickard

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE(Cpt. Phil T. Berns @ Jun 21 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They could have flipped his head and body, leaving the hat as is. But then the shadows on Artie wouldn't more or less match those on Jim. I think they should have flipped the hat and left his face and body as is. But most importantly, they should have added a shadow on Artie's forehead.


NOOOO! You never ever flop a person's face. I worked at a newspaper for nearly a decade out of college, and this was drilled into me by a very talented woman who specialized in graphics layout. People's faces are not perfectly symmetrical, though we generally think they are. When you horizontally flip a headshot the likeness is very often lost. Maybe not to every eye, and probably more with some people than others, but people generally pick up that somethings wrong.

For example, I can always spot it when it's done with Patrick Stewart, when it's done by lazy graphic artists (all too often).

(That doesn't include when they flop a pic of him in Starfleet uniform with his communicator on the wrong side! Columbia House did that a few times in mailings I got.)




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