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Has Star Trek XI Broken the Odd Number Curse?


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Poll: Odd Number Curse Broken? (31 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Star Trek XI has broken the odd number curse?

  1. Yes (20 votes [64.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.52%

  2. No (10 votes [32.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.26%

  3. Undecided (1 votes [3.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.23%

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#41 Gothneo

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE (JulesLuvsShinzon @ Nov 21 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think at the time a lot of people viewed TMP in much the same light as this newer movie - as an opportunity to ride the wave of Abrams' popularity (in 1979 it was the popularity of "Star Wars") and rehash an old intellectual property. I think that many Trekkers enjoyed the experience of seeing the crew and theEnterprise on the big screen for the first time.


I think that's a very apt assessment.

And for the record, I really don't think the new movie is as bad as TMP. I was watching some of the space scenes again, and many of them are quite stunning.



#42 slayerone76

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 07:29 PM

I watched this on DVD too, just a few days ago. I have to say, I liked it on smaller screen better than big screen. The lighting didn't seem as harsh and I could take in more of the scene than I could at the theater. I am in no way saying that I didn't like it in the the theater, just that I think the smaller screen allowed for me to take in more.

I really liked the humor and the action.

I do agree that Nero was a little weak and I HATED the romance/relationship that they introduced.

#43 JulesLuvsShinzon

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:34 AM

The Uhura / Spock angle was a misfire for me as well.

The action scenes that I really appreciated in the movie were the ones on Nero's drilling rig because previous Treks used to concentrate only on space or the ground. There was never really a great depiction of the space between, or any action that took place between the earth and the big sky. I suffer from vertigo, so I found the rig scenes unsettling, and in a curious way those scenes gave the movie a greater sense of scale.

#44 Gothneo

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:09 AM

Yes... but they were so unnecessary...

#45 Thomas E. Johnson

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

The Spock/Uhura romance was a nod to how TOS was originally going to be. If Shatner hadn't whined and b!tched about it because he felt Kirk should get all the chicks, the harmless flirting that Uhura did with Spock on occasion would have been a more serious affair, and the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura was actually written for Spock and Uhura, but again, Shatner b!tched and moaned about it, and they rewrote it as a Kirk/Uhura scene.

Lets face it folks. The Shatner of the 1960s was a 1st class ego driven jerk.

#46 Sybeck1

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 23 2009, 04:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes... but they were so unnecessary...



That kinda sums up the whole thing......

#47 slayerone76

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:55 PM

QUOTE (Thomas E. Johnson @ Nov 23 2009, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Spock/Uhura romance was a nod to how TOS was originally going to be. If Shatner hadn't whined and b!tched about it because he felt Kirk should get all the chicks, the harmless flirting that Uhura did with Spock on occasion would have been a more serious affair, and the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura was actually written for Spock and Uhura, but again, Shatner b!tched and moaned about it, and they rewrote it as a Kirk/Uhura scene.

Lets face it folks. The Shatner of the 1960s was a 1st class ego driven jerk.


I guess I missed the flirting between Uhura and Spock. I definitely noticed Chapel and Spock though.

#48 Gothneo

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:10 PM

Yeah... I'm of the opinion that never was really the case. That's sort of like saying there was a thing between Uhura and Sulu because of the interaction they had in the Mirror Mirror Episode

#49 JulesLuvsShinzon

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:31 PM

It's interesting that the rig scenes are considered by some to be unecessary because, frankly, these actions scenes are the ones put in to give the mainstream punters "more bang for their buck" and are similar to the dune buggy sequence in Nemesis. A lot of what went into Nemesis was about attracting action fans and we all know how that negatively impacted on the cohesiveness of the plot. I guess that blockbuster Trek is going to have a load more of this type of scene and we'll need to get used to it. As far as I'm concerned I liked both the dune buggy scene and the rig scene quite simply because we hadn't seen either type of sequence in Trek movies before. At least it was a change from one ship firing on another.

As for the Spock/Uhura scene and any likely relation between the two, it really doesn't work for me, and if they put that angle in to appeal to the ladies, then they can think again. dry.gif I'd rather the female officers on the bridge simply got on with their jobs and any love interests hang around for one movie only as guest stars. I only think relations between crew members work when you've had time to get to know the characters and begin to think that they might make a great couple.

#50 Thomas E. Johnson

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 23 2009, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah... I'm of the opinion that never was really the case. That's sort of like saying there was a thing between Uhura and Sulu because of the interaction they had in the Mirror Mirror Episode


Again, the original plot for TOS was for Spock and Uhura to have an intimate and discrete relationship. The Spock/Uhura romance in the new movie is a nod/homage to Roddenberry's original outline.

#51 reverie

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Thomas E. Johnson @ Nov 23 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Spock/Uhura romance was a nod to how TOS was originally going to be. If Shatner hadn't whined and b!tched about it because he felt Kirk should get all the chicks, the harmless flirting that Uhura did with Spock on occasion would have been a more serious affair, and the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura was actually written for Spock and Uhura, but again, Shatner b!tched and moaned about it, and they rewrote it as a Kirk/Uhura scene.

Lets face it folks. The Shatner of the 1960s was a 1st class ego driven jerk.


I could believe this, but I'm curious what the source is?

#52 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (JulesLuvsShinzon @ Nov 24 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for the Spock/Uhura scene and any likely relation between the two, it really doesn't work for me ... I only think relations between crew members work when you've had time to get to know the characters and begin to think that they might make a great couple.

I disliked Spock/Uhura for a whole other reason. One of the big weaknesses of this movie was the blurring of the line between cadet and officer, and this relationship is one small example of that overall problem. Why is the Enterprise, their newest and presumably most advanced ship, being crewed principally by cadets with only 2 actual academy graduate officers to lead them? Pike is forced to give Kirk the 1st officer position... why? Because he sees greatness brewing in the guy who was essentially a stowaway? By rights he should have been locked up in the brig the minute he stormed onto the bridge. The only answer I can come up with is that there's literally nobody else around but other cadets who presumably don't have the chops to be the captain. That's just sad. Then, when they get back to Earth at the end of the movie, he graduates and is immediately named Captain of the Enterprise. Even sadder that there are no other officers in line ahead of him.

Getting back to S/U though, this is another sign of that blurring. I can't see "logical" Spock doing anything but quoting regulations prohibiting officers (particularly academy teachers) from fraternizing with the cadets the minute Uhura showed any interest in him. It seemed to me like a college professor having a fling with a student. There may be nothing illegal about it, but it's terribly improper, a little creepy, and there are likely university regulations prohibiting it for which violating the policy means the professor can be fired. They can try to sell it to me, but I just can't believe Spock of all people would ever entertain the thought of getting involved with her, at least not given the current stage of both their careers.

#53 Gothneo

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (Thomas E. Johnson @ Nov 24 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, the original plot for TOS was for Spock and Uhura to have an intimate and discrete relationship. The Spock/Uhura romance in the new movie is a nod/homage to Roddenberry's original outline.


Never happened in TOS thus not a nod as far as I'm concerned. But all that's irrelevant as it just didn't work for me. It's ok. really. You don't have to try and justify every aspect of the movie for people like me. I like it for what it is and I'll complement it for what I think it did right and critique it for what I think it did wrong. This is something I don't think worked and apparently I'm not alone!

"Chimp" You have some great points. Points I think myself and others like VulcanFanatic have brought up too.


QUOTE
It's interesting that the rig scenes are considered by some to be unecessary because, frankly, these actions scenes are the ones put in to give the mainstream punters "more bang for their buck"


Oh the rig scenes were wonderfully shot and nicely done! A ton of fun filled action! But... they weren't necessary, the whole plot device of needing a drilling rig and needing to drill to the center of the planet to release "red matter" just wasn't necessary, it was contrived simply to do exactly what you described. So that's why I say they were unnecessary.

#54 Thomas E. Johnson

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 24 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never happened in TOS thus not a nod as far as I'm concerned. But all that's irrelevant as it just didn't work for me. It's ok. really. You don't have to try and justify every aspect of the movie for people like me. I like it for what it is and I'll complement it for what I think it did right and critique it for what I think it did wrong. This is something I don't think worked and apparently I'm not alone!


And your not all together either. A lot of fans I know caught the reference, and approved of it. I also got a chuckle in the theater as did most all the other fans, when we realized Spock's remark about "crew moral better served by my roaming the halls weeping," was an in-joke referring to Spock actually roaming the halls weeping in "The Naked Time." biggrin.gif


There were a large number of scenes that were filmed, or I should say framed, as throw back shots to earlier films and epesiodes in the movie. Abrams was very careful in how he planned out his camera work.


QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 24 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh the rig scenes were wonderfully shot and nicely done! A ton of fun filled action! But... they weren't necessary, the whole plot device of needing a drilling rig and needing to drill to the center of the planet to release "red matter" just wasn't necessary, it was contrived simply to do exactly what you described. So that's why I say they were unnecessary.


Yeah, but by the same reasoning, the whole franchise, as well as present day space exploration would be unnecessary because we could explore the cosmos on a computer screen, and that would be no damn fun!!!!!!!!! biggrin.gif spock2.gif


#55 A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 05:32 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 24 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Chimp" You have some great points. Points I think myself and others like VulcanFanatic have brought up too.


Sorry to re-tread. I don't read the XI threads very often...

There's no way to bring Kirk from Cadet to Captain in the span of a movie unless you're either doing something like a flashback or timetravel. Barring that, you've gotta do some pretty implausible stuff which to me wrecks the movie. I'm not opposed to seeing Cadet Kirk, but the concept is really much better suited to a TV series... where the pilot or first few episodes has him as a cadet, and then the rest of the show is lower ranks Kirk making his ascent until he becomes Captain at the end of the final episode. If we wanted to see Kirk become captain of the Enterprise at the end of the movie, I would've started everyone off as junior or mid-level officers on 2 or 3 different ships, one of them being Enterprise... (Kirk is maybe first officer of the other, much smaller ship) ... where we have a plot thread on each ship that eventually ties together to bring those ships to fight a final battle, probably sacrificing at least one of the them.. after which Kirk earns a promotion to captain of Enterprise.


... but those are just my semi-upright simian musings...

#56 Thomas E. Johnson

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees @ Nov 24 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry to re-tread. I don't read the XI threads very often...

There's no way to bring Kirk from Cadet to Captain in the span of a movie unless you're either doing something like a flashback or timetravel. Barring that, you've gotta do some pretty implausible stuff which to me wrecks the movie. I'm not opposed to seeing Cadet Kirk, but the concept is really much better suited to a TV series... where the pilot or first few episodes has him as a cadet, and then the rest of the show is lower ranks Kirk making his ascent until he becomes Captain at the end of the final episode. If we wanted to see Kirk become captain of the Enterprise at the end of the movie, I would've started everyone off as junior or mid-level officers on 2 or 3 different ships, one of them being Enterprise... (Kirk is maybe first officer of the other, much smaller ship) ... where we have a plot thread on each ship that eventually ties together to bring those ships to fight a final battle, probably sacrificing at least one of the them.. after which Kirk earns a promotion to captain of Enterprise.


... but those are just my semi-upright simian musings...


Yes, but all of your points were addressed and explained. What happened made perfect sense.

#57 Gothneo

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (Thomas E. Johnson @ Nov 24 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, but by the same reasoning, the whole franchise, as well as present day space exploration would be unnecessary because we could explore the cosmos on a computer screen


Have you been hitting the sauce again before posting? Because your going to have explain that analogy to me as I find it non-sequitur!

And "Chimp" I was just intending to say that I agree with ya!

#58 Thomas E. Johnson

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 24 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have you been hitting the sauce again before posting? Because your going to have explain that analogy to me as I find it non-sequitur!

And "Chimp" I was just intending to say that I agree with ya!


Perfectly sober! wink.gif And my statement was perfectly clear! spock2.gif

#59 Gothneo

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 04:16 AM

Well, ok. But I don't get your analogy.

QUOTE
present day space exploration would be unnecessary because we could explore the cosmos on a computer screen


Seems to be a non-sequitur to me, because you seem to be implying that I'm saying that modern day (real) space exploration can be replaced by using a computer (well maybe not the whole computer... maybe just the computer screen). So this doesn't follow anything near what we've been discussing, which is a movie, it's plot, and how those plot devices work and interact nor does it capture any of my sentiments or critiques of the movie. I can't fathom how one could replace actual exploration with none, and thus have never said nor implied any such thing in any of my comments on a movie or the movie plot! It seems completely out there to me, so if there is a point I should take away from you comment your, going to have to expound on it a bit! Otherwise we can just go back discussing the movie, it's plot, plot devices and how they work... or don't work!

#60 JulesLuvsShinzon

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE (Gothneo @ Nov 24 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never happened in TOS thus not a nod as far as I'm concerned. But all that's irrelevant as it just didn't work for me. It's ok. really. You don't have to try and justify every aspect of the movie for people like me. I like it for what it is and I'll complement it for what I think it did right and critique it for what I think it did wrong. This is something I don't think worked and apparently I'm not alone!


No you're not! At least here nobody is trying to rip you a new one - as has happened elsewhere - for not liking/hating or both for the "right" reasons!! laugh.gif

QUOTE
"Chimp" You have some great points. Points I think myself and others like VulcanFanatic have brought up too.


Yes, thank you for your thoughtful post Chimp. I agree with your points too. I think you're highlighting the problems thinking people have with films made to attract "yoof" because they want to think they can rise to the top and byepass the years of necessary seasoning and experience - as Jean-Luc Picard would say!! I agree with your ponts on S/U too. I don't think Spock would have jeopardised his position even to the point where he needed to explain to her that giving her a place on the mission might be regarded by some (for that read all) as favouritism - which he does do in the movie.


QUOTE
Oh the rig scenes were wonderfully shot and nicely done! A ton of fun filled action! But... they weren't necessary, the whole plot device of needing a drilling rig and needing to drill to the center of the planet to release "red matter" just wasn't necessary, it was contrived simply to do exactly what you described. So that's why I say they were unnecessary.


Oh how I agree with you, but that's where we are with Trek today. I mean the whole B4 hunt and chase subplot was simply an excuse to have a buggy chase and give Spiner more to do. We all know that Shinzon didn't need an excuse to draw the Enterprise closer to the Neutral Zone because, well, he's the Praetor of the Romulan Star Empire wanting to open peace talks, so who else is Starfleet going to send but their best diplomat and the flagship of the fleet!




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