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The "ST:Discovery is a Disaster!" Thread


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#41 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:00 PM

What do you mean by irresponsible lifestyle choices?

Everyones entitled to their own opinion (how ever bigoted the majority of people find them), but when you think that being homosexual is irresponsible? Well there it is.

You VF, are thankfully a dying breed of humankind. That fool Trump and his utter lack of any kind of humility and respect for others is proof that your own outdated view on what is the correct and responsible way to live is not widely accepted or viewed as an acceptable way to behave.

As a race, we have become more tolerant and inclusive of people with different lifestyles... we even include you VF, youre not stoned or beaten to death even though youre a bigot and whilst there is no place for your views.

In other words, we are starting to learn the lessons Gene Roddenberry was trying to teach us with Star Trek.

The biggest question here though that continues to confuse me is why on Earth VF would even like a show about equality and diversity.

You are a good example of how confused and deluded many people are today. When the
"dying breed" as you call it really die off, who is going to pay the bills of all of the sensitive , emotional young people that spend their time worrying about which bathroom to use and calling people a bigot when they disapprove of your life choices. Trump a fool? He seems like one of very few adults in Washington trying to actually do their job. Obama didn't do anything but run our country into the ground.

#42 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:00 PM

What do you mean by irresponsible lifestyle choices?

Everyones entitled to their own opinion (how ever bigoted the majority of people find them), but when you think that being homosexual is irresponsible? Well there it is.

You VF, are thankfully a dying breed of humankind. That fool Trump and his utter lack of any kind of humility and respect for others is proof that your own outdated view on what is the correct and responsible way to live is not widely accepted or viewed as an acceptable way to behave.

As a race, we have become more tolerant and inclusive of people with different lifestyles... we even include you VF, youre not stoned or beaten to death even though youre a bigot and whilst there is no place for your views.

In other words, we are starting to learn the lessons Gene Roddenberry was trying to teach us with Star Trek.

The biggest question here though that continues to confuse me is why on Earth VF would even like a show about equality and diversity.

You are a good example of how confused and deluded many people are today. When the
"dying breed" as you call it really die off, who is going to pay the bills of all of the sensitive , emotional young people that spend their time worrying about which bathroom to use and calling people a bigot when they disapprove of your life choices. Trump a fool? He seems like one of very few adults in Washington trying to actually do their job. Obama didn't do anything but run our country into the ground.

#43 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:01 PM

What do you mean by irresponsible lifestyle choices?

Everyones entitled to their own opinion (how ever bigoted the majority of people find them), but when you think that being homosexual is irresponsible? Well there it is.

You VF, are thankfully a dying breed of humankind. That fool Trump and his utter lack of any kind of humility and respect for others is proof that your own outdated view on what is the correct and responsible way to live is not widely accepted or viewed as an acceptable way to behave.

As a race, we have become more tolerant and inclusive of people with different lifestyles... we even include you VF, youre not stoned or beaten to death even though youre a bigot and whilst there is no place for your views.

In other words, we are starting to learn the lessons Gene Roddenberry was trying to teach us with Star Trek.

The biggest question here though that continues to confuse me is why on Earth VF would even like a show about equality and diversity.

You are a good example of how confused and deluded many people are today. When the
"dying breed" as you call it really die off, who is going to pay the bills of all of the sensitive , emotional young people that spend their time worrying about which bathroom to use and calling people a bigot when they disapprove of your life choices. Trump a fool? He seems like one of very few adults in Washington trying to actually do their job. Obama didn't do anything but run our country into the ground.

#44 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:01 PM

What do you mean by irresponsible lifestyle choices?

Everyones entitled to their own opinion (how ever bigoted the majority of people find them), but when you think that being homosexual is irresponsible? Well there it is.

You VF, are thankfully a dying breed of humankind. That fool Trump and his utter lack of any kind of humility and respect for others is proof that your own outdated view on what is the correct and responsible way to live is not widely accepted or viewed as an acceptable way to behave.

As a race, we have become more tolerant and inclusive of people with different lifestyles... we even include you VF, youre not stoned or beaten to death even though youre a bigot and whilst there is no place for your views.

In other words, we are starting to learn the lessons Gene Roddenberry was trying to teach us with Star Trek.

The biggest question here though that continues to confuse me is why on Earth VF would even like a show about equality and diversity.

You are a good example of how confused and deluded many people are today. When the
"dying breed" as you call it really die off, who is going to pay the bills of all of the sensitive , emotional young people that spend their time worrying about which bathroom to use and calling people a bigot when they disapprove of your life choices. Trump a fool? He seems like one of very few adults in Washington trying to actually do their job. Obama didn't do anything but run our country into the ground.

#45 1701D

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 04:59 PM

Ahahaha... Im sensing VF really wanted to send that message...

So many idiotic points raised... I dont worry about what bathroom Im going to use... I worry about some orange fool pushing that big red button, I worry about MY own ridiculous government taking us out of the European Union when every fact suggests coming out of the EU will likely leave this tiny insignificant island in an even worse state than we are in already... I worry about global warming... yes its real VF... I worry whether or not the planet and the human race will survive the next year, let alone the next 3 years with Trump at the helm... and Trump an adult? You do realise the entire world is laughing at the USA... you... sorry, the Russians voted in an orange, sexist, bigoted, misogynistic, reality TV Star into the most important house on this planet... Im not even remotely playing this up, he is an utter joke. Hes a dangerous man who knows nothing about diplomacy and treating people, let alone women with respect.

But hey, if you want some destructive moron running things, lining his pockets with more money and wealth while the porest in your country just keep getting poorer, if you want to continue blaming other people like women, blacks, Chinese, The young, homosexuals, transgenders, democrats and veterans for the problems in your own country, if you want some ridiculous lump of orange flesh, who praises demented organisations like the KKK, English Defense League and Nazi sympathisers, not to mention those who would use vehicles to mow inoccent people down in the streets just exercising their right to protest... a man who treats women like objects to be sexually assaulted and demeaned in the most horrific way, if you want some demented simpleton hovering his fat, chubby fingers over that big red button, throwing nonsensical tweets to other demented dictators while he screws you up the ass then... thats your right because just like us young people, just like everyone you think of as irresponsible, you are free to think and live your life the way you want... just dont expect those with a different opinion than yours, to sympathise with your idiotic, bigoted opinion.

Seriously dude, what the hell appeals to you about Star Trek? It goes completely against everything you believe. Vulcan Fantatic? Youre more Ferengi... and thats actually an insult to Ferengi...

#46 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:06 PM

Ahahaha... Im sensing VF really wanted to send that message...

So many idiotic points raised... I dont worry about what bathroom Im going to use... I worry about some orange fool pushing that big red button, I worry about MY own ridiculous government taking us out of the European Union when every fact suggests coming out of the EU will likely leave this tiny insignificant island in an even worse state than we are in already... I worry about global warming... yes its real VF... I worry whether or not the planet and the human race will survive the next year, let alone the next 3 years with Trump at the helm... and Trump an adult? You do realise the entire world is laughing at the USA... you... sorry, the Russians voted in an orange, sexist, bigoted, misogynistic, reality TV Star into the most important house on this planet... Im not even remotely playing this up, he is an utter joke. Hes a dangerous man who knows nothing about diplomacy and treating people, let alone women with respect.

But hey, if you want some destructive moron running things, lining his pockets with more money and wealth while the porest in your country just keep getting poorer, if you want to continue blaming other people like women, blacks, Chinese, The young, homosexuals, transgenders, democrats and veterans for the problems in your own country, if you want some ridiculous lump of orange flesh, who praises demented organisations like the KKK, English Defense League and Nazi sympathisers, not to mention those who would use vehicles to mow inoccent people down in the streets just exercising their right to protest... a man who treats women like objects to be sexually assaulted and demeaned in the most horrific way, if you want some demented simpleton hovering his fat, chubby fingers over that big red button, throwing nonsensical tweets to other demented dictators while he screws you up the ass then... thats your right because just like us young people, just like everyone you think of as irresponsible, you are free to think and live your life the way you want... just dont expect those with a different opinion than yours, to sympathise with your idiotic, bigoted opinion.

Seriously dude, what the hell appeals to you about Star Trek? It goes completely against everything you believe. Vulcan Fantatic? Youre more Ferengi... and thats actually an insult to Ferengi...

This is probably the most stupid post I've ever read on this forum. I don't blame any particular race for any of the problems in this country, I blame idiots like you that spout moronic things like you just did.

#47 Alteran195

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:39 PM

Trump an adult? What a fucking joke that statement is. Hes such an adult when he lashes out like a high schooler on Twitter.

Trump is a joke, and so is the Republican Party, and anyone else for that matter, for supporting him.

Its a fact that if Obama or any other Democratic Party president pulled any of the shit Trump does, the Republicans would call for their head.

As for your idiotic bathroom statement, the transgender and people who support them didnt give a shit about what bathroom people use, its the people who think their lifestyle is wrong that got all pissy about it.

#48 1701D

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:04 PM

This is probably the most stupid post I've ever read on this forum. I don't blame any particular race for any of the problems in this country, I blame idiots like you that spout moronic things like you just did.


What moronic things in particular?

Look Im probably the only one here who hasnt put you on ignore, I dont think what you say is remotely intelligent or informed. I think you are misguided and misinformed and are probably someone who watches a little too much Fox and Friends rather than Last Week Tonight With John Oliver...

That being said. Whether I like what you say or not, clearly one of if not your most favourite character is Spock and something in Star Trek (the, as wildly optimistic fair and equality driven and anti-trump show as you can get) appealed to you at one time and so with that in mind, Im still open minded enough to respond to you, how ever moronic you think my replies are.

Are you though?

#49 Gothneo

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 01:08 AM

I'm starting to think its not the show thats a disaster...but maybe this thread is!



#50 1701D

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:14 AM

I'm starting to think its not the show thats a disaster...but maybe this thread is!

Theres a reason the thread is becoming a disaster... its that Star Trek: Discovery really isnt the disaster everyone thought it would be. Its actually one of the best, if not the best first season of Star Trek Ive ever seen with the exception of the original series.

What makes Discovery a personal disaster for me is the way it looks, but that is a very mini disaster to be honest. Ive loved every moment of this series and whilst Im not a massive fan of the serialised format, the acting is some of the best of any show on TV, and the characters are all superbly portrayed and really fleshed out well so far. I cant wait for season 2 and for hopefully a more optimistic, aspirational Science Fiction format.

I mean I think the fan base is more of a disaster if you ask me... were having a huge identity crisis and I think a small portion of us are really struggling to grapple with the fact that things change and move on.

Even if Star Trek had come back with season 5 of Enterprise, the show would of so fundamentally changed that the same fans would of had their issues with it.

#51 Gothneo

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:45 AM

That was a tongue in cheek comment  :P

 

I think there are legitimate issues with DISCO.... and I hoped that this thread would give people an opportunity to vent about them rather then issue with certain "fans" or their political aggravations... because quit frankly I really don't care about the latter.



#52 Alteran195

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 01:40 PM

There definitely are legit issues with the show, but saying its forcing some SJW agenda or "unhealthy" lifestyles on you is not one of them, and is an incredibly stupid thing for any "fan" to say about any Star Trek show. 



#53 1701D

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:22 PM

That was a tongue in cheek comment  :P
 
I think there are legitimate issues with DISCO.... and I hoped that this thread would give people an opportunity to vent about them rather then issue with certain "fans" or their political aggravations... because quit frankly I really don't care about the latter.

I think there are problems with the show, like there are with any show that ever existed but the problems with Discovery are all subjective. Each to their own with what they like and dislike about the show.

I think the reason these threads get derailed by all of us at one time or another is that Star Trek is a very personal, deeply routed experience. In the span of almost 52 years, Star Trek has touched us all to varying degrees at different points and when that idea of what we know Star Trek to be is challenged by a new direction like the Kelvin Timeline films and now Discovery... well its a bitter pill for some to swallow if theyve had such a specific view on what Star Trek is for such a long time.

Lets not forget we had 18 years, 25 seasons of the same format of Star Trek. From TNG to Enterprise, the format didnt change much. Thats a massive period of time to then just have cancelled and changed in such a radical new direction with the 2009 movie and now Discovery going in another direction further away from that 18 year period that defined Star Trek for an entire generation. And if youre a fan of TOS and the TOS movies... then well your Star Trek has truly come to an end. There will never be another show like the original. There can be attempts at reliving and reviving that type of show, but to very little success. In some ways the reason Discovery works on a number of levels is that it isnt trying to be anything other than its own idea of what its creators think Star Trek is. This though is a double edged sword and the reason Discovery fails for us perhaps, is that there isnt enough connective tissue between it and the past (or the future).

Unfortunately no Internet forum will change the views of those who live by their ideals and expectations of Star Trek day in day out and ultimately Star Trek will never be able to please everyone so here we are. Another long and rambling overture by myself.

#54 Gothneo

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 02:35 AM

Actually... I think Trek did change starting with DS9... but then it kinda fell back to the TOS/TNG formula with VOY... but arguably, the last couple seasons of ENT morphed into a longer running story with mini arcs spanning 3 or 4 episodes, which kinda leads us to DISCO. So.. I see a connection in the evolution of the way stories are being told. And I kinda hear people that really love TOS/TNG kinda say that they don't care for DS9 or ENT... but maybe like VOY a bit more. 

 

If your saying that DISCO embraces a more modern way of story telling on TV, then yes I would agree. Of course that format isn't w/o its issues too! 

 

Part of the fun of this type of story telling is you gotta watch the whole thing and trust that the writers are gonna do their job well and give you a satisfying conclusion... because if you invest a whole bunch of time and energy and like... something like "Lost"... then you may feel like you were duped. 

 

We have 3 more episodes to see how this plays out.



#55 1701D

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 01:51 PM

Actually... I think Trek did change starting with DS9... but then it kinda fell back to the TOS/TNG formula with VOY... but arguably, the last couple seasons of ENT morphed into a longer running story with mini arcs spanning 3 or 4 episodes, which kinda leads us to DISCO. So.. I see a connection in the evolution of the way stories are being told. And I kinda hear people that really love TOS/TNG kinda say that they don't care for DS9 or ENT... but maybe like VOY a bit more.

I mean, in my opinion DS9 changed Star Trek somewhat but not as much as the 2009 movie did. DS9 remained faithful to the work TNG did in building the 24th Century. DS9 really put it under the microscope.

Where DS9 gave us some thing a little different, Voyager gave us TNG 0.2.

I mean I think for 18 years Star Trek was utterly fantastic. I loved every moment of it and even now I look back and think darn those were some fantastic years of Star Trek. Even the not so great stories like Nemesis and most of Enterprise, they still have an important part to play in my enjoyment of that era.

In a weird way I think everything that has happened since they cancelled Enterprise, has kind of happened needlessly because in my mind, all Star Trek needed was more resources and fresh blood writing stories within the world created by Gene Roddenberry, Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, Ronald D. Moore, Michael Piller, Jeri Taylor and Ira Steven Bher.

We are where we are though. I loved the 2009 Star Trek movie and Im loving Star Trek: Discovery. What both are missing though is the connective tissue that binds them to the franchise we all love. The minutiae explaining the differences and without that, it seems ever so much like Abrams and now Kurtzman arent fully invested in preserving the past, but instead riding rough shot over canon and continuity with vague generic things that kind of connect 2009 and Discovery to the prime timeline and yeah I can see a connection between Enterprise and Discovery if only in a vague sort of way.

Id like to see more Star Trek alumni come into help write and flesh out this show though. Manny Coto and Ira Steven Bher are two names that jump out at me. Rick Sternbach and Doug Drexler are two others and of course who could forget the Okudas.

Discovery is working really well at delivering intriguing characters and great ideas but it is kind of missing some important family members who would be beneficial in helping the series really ground itself within the wider context of where this show is meant to be set.
 

If your saying that DISCO embraces a more modern way of story telling on TV, then yes I would agree. Of course that format isn't w/o its issues too! 
 
Part of the fun of this type of story telling is you gotta watch the whole thing and trust that the writers are gonna do their job well and give you a satisfying conclusion... because if you invest a whole bunch of time and energy and like... something like "Lost"... then you may feel like you were duped. 
 
We have 3 more episodes to see how this plays out.

And this is why I think Star Trek works best when its episodic and not serialised. Thats where the wagon train comes into it. Star Trek could be both episodic in that the ship would arrive in orbit or encounter some strange new thing and deal with it within the 45/60 minutes of that episode but character development would be ongoing throughout the season(s).

#56 Gothneo

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:42 PM

DS9 took it darker and also started giving us continuing stories... it still managed to keep the overall better future concept, but it showed us that Star Trek could be something else than what the TOS/TNG formula gave us. and... I kinda like 3-4 episode arcs... I was re-watching season 4 of ENT... and that is totally re-watchable IMO. In fact I really thought they were finding their pace because as one arc was wrapping up, they keyed us into the next...  and those were pure Manny Coto delights!

 

And in a large way.. ENT seemed to try and go back to more single episodes in the 1st couple seasons... while having some sub-plots that got little or no attention much of the time... and people didn't seem to care for it because in large they changed the channel.

 

I do like the idea of an anthology show... but I fear that the cost might get out of control... especially if the idea is to show different types of ships and aliens each episode. but who knows.



#57 Alteran195

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:28 PM

I stand by what Ive said before, Enterprises 4th season was the best way of doing Trek.

Having a storyline take 2-4 episodes gives a chance to tell a story without feeling rushed, while still being somewhat episodic since youd get multiple storylines told over one season.

Having a loose season long arc where each storyline can be independent, but still contribute to an overall arc, like Enterprises season 4 Earth Alliance/Federation arc, would work really well.

I like DISCOs storyline so far, but would love to see it return to that style of storytelling going forward.

Id also love to keep Jason Isaacs around, but I doubt it at this point.

#58 Gothneo

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 07:16 PM

Yep, I've been "Evolving" my perspective to the point that I pretty much agree with you Alteran195.



#59 Nigel

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 11:56 PM

Seeing a lot of abuse here, yikes. Doesn't make me want to check out the show....



#60 Gothneo

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 04:01 AM

Nigel... if you see some posts that you think are inappropriate there is a "report" button...  each post has them.

 

But if your a fan of DS9 and BSG as you've said in the other thread... I think you'll actually enjoy it. Its something Different thats for sure, but if your waiting until the entire thing will be available to binge watch it... hopefully for free, I recommend it. Were down to our last couple episodes and it does seem to be coming together... I think it'll be up to each fan to decide if they like it or not.






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