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Star Trek Beyond---------Spoilers


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#1 Sybeck1

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:35 PM

Well maybe I went out to popcorn but what caused Kroll to change from his human form?

#2 Alteran195

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:51 AM

I'd guess either the technology he was using to stay alive could change his appearance, or it was some kind of projection. The advanced race that used to inhabit that planet clearly had some very advanced technology.

#3 1701D

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 04:58 AM

I assumed that the planet had Some very advanced tech and that he captured crews in order to change his appearance.

#4 JMW326

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 09:50 AM

He seemed to change when he absorbed the energy from others. I thought it was because of that.

I can't wait to see some hi res images of the new Enterprise A.

#5 MisterPL

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 06:57 AM

Immortality has a price. On that planet, the price is going from Idris Elba to a sleestak.



#6 Alteran195

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 07:09 AM

Reddit posted this link. Don't know how long it will be up for.

https://youtu.be/L4DVUEb3Tm8

#7 JMW326

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 07:22 AM

I love that design of the A. I really want a better detailed look.

#8 Alteran195

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 07:46 AM

I feel the A really addresses some of the issues people had with the original design. Straight pylons, further apart nacelles, a better sized neck, more tos looking nacelles. I think the secondary hull is more tos-esque, but it's hard to tell from the poor quality of the video.

#9 Sybeck1

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:02 AM

The most touching moment was when Spock opened up the picture of the TUC cast

#10 Alteran195

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:09 AM

The most touching moment was when Spock opened up the picture of the TUC cast


Ya, that was real good.

#11 Sybeck1

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:44 AM

Just realized that was TFF

#12 Alteran195

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 12:20 PM

Article on the Franklin.

http://trekcore.com/...-trek-timeline/

#13 djc242

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:35 PM

Article on the Franklin.

http://trekcore.com/...-trek-timeline/


That makes sense. I really liked the recall to that era and mostly liked the Franklin interiors and exterior.

How awesome would it have been though if it had been the NX-02 Columbia? With sets much like we saw on ENT? I think there's a story in a novel or comic about it being lost. Could have easily fit in here.

I enjoyed the movie a lot. It was a little dizzying at times and tricky to keep track of the action if you blinked. Maybe that's just me being the ripe old age of 34. I look forward to extended or deleted scenes. I think the motivation of the villain was revealed too late and a lot of background was thrust at the audience very quickly. For the next film I hope that the villain isn't simply motivated by revenge. Each Kelvin film bad guy is out for the big R and the revelation of their motivation is some plot point/mystery. I appreciate the writers giving the villains a little depth but maybe there's another archetype they can tap for number IV.

The destruction of the Enterprise was visually cool but I just didn't feel anything while it was happening. By that point we'd only had 4+ hours of screen time with her and that wasn't enough for me to be invested. The concept of the ship itself as a character really hasn't been a theme in the new timeline yet. The loss of the prime Enterprise in Star Trek III was so much more meaningful to me, especially since it was a sacrifice (and that Horner score during that scene is just so operatic!).

After seeing the new universe treated a little more like traditional Trek I'd love to see the adventures of the new Ent-A in a limited run series or miniseries (alongside Discovery with maybe even some crossovers). Trek can totally be a mini version of the MCU.

#14 Alteran195

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:49 PM

One thing I hope the new series takes from the movies is the view screens. It may not necessarily fit in the canon, but how the Kelvin Timeline does them is just so much more practical, and makes so much sense when compared to the normal ones we've seen in the past.

#15 Whirlygig

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 08:09 AM

I enjoyed the movie a lot. It was a little dizzying at times and tricky to keep track of the action if you blinked.

 

One of the things being touted about the movie in the brief lead up by critics was how the characters were separated into groups of 2 and given a chance to have some dialog and development with each other.

 

I was looking forward to that part.  We have the long-standing Trek tradition of making "buddy dramedy" episodes where two characters who don't see eye to eye are stranded with each other and have to work through a survival type situation.  I always loved those episodes.  I assumed something more like that would be what we would see.  Kirk teaching Chekov how to lead, Bones and Spock coming to terms, etc.

 

And to some degree, that's what we did see -- except I felt it was rushed and half-baked.  I couldn't believe how quickly they all found each other on the planet.  And the "buddy" dynamic was distilled down to the fewest number of lines/situations possible, leaving no breathing room or really much room for the characters to act either.  The Bones/Spock exchanges felt like they could have all fit into a single trailer...  And it didn't really feel that 'earned'.  I find both characters a little forced, exaggerating the original characters' traits to the extreme, which I'm sure they feel is necessary to make the dynamic work in less total screen time than a TV show but which also cartoonifies them.  Spock cries and laughs at the drop of a hat in the JJverse; those moments are not earned like they are in the show after hours and hours of watching him actually be Vulcan-like.  Bones never says anything really reasonable or thoughtful, just a bunch of cranky jokes.  When Spock does try to act Vulcan-like, he does it in a way that feels like a human exaggerating what a Vulcan would actually say/do.  He also made a lot of jokes to the effect of not wanting to die, stated in as many human-trying-to-sound-Vulcany words as possible, which isn't exactly something I picture or recall TOS Spock doing.

 

Of course if they slowed all of that down enough for my taste, it would have been even more like a "long episode", which is a criticism I've already heard some of my more casual Trek fan acquaintances complain about regarding Beyond.  When one person told me that I replied, incredulously, "Kirk never jumped and flew around all over the place, or slid down the top of the ship in an episode!"

 

Apparently the superhero movie has pretty much ruined geekdom.  Now every greek-leaning movie has to be that or the more casual geeks just can't get interested.   :P



#16 Destructor!!!

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 07:41 PM

One thing I hope the new series takes from the movies is the view screens. It may not necessarily fit in the canon, but how the Kelvin Timeline does them is just so much more practical, and makes so much sense when compared to the normal ones we've seen in the past.


Finally!!!

Alteran, I knew we would disagree on something eventually!

I was relieved to (I think) see that the new Linterprise-A has no viewscreen window.
 

"Kirk never jumped and flew around all over the place, or slid down the top of the ship in an episode!"

Apparently the superhero movie has pretty much ruined geekdom. Now every greek-leaning movie has to be that or the more casual geeks just can't get interested. :P


Absolutely! That moment (and a few others like it) stuck out like a sore thumb. This is Star Trek! These characters are (for the most part) human! At the very least, they are generally flesh-and-blood people whose bodies obey the laws of physics!

Just because they do heroic things, that doesn't mean they need to act like superheroes!

#17 Morgan

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 09:21 PM

Well, it's official; it's the odd-numbered ones in this film series that are the good ones.



#18 Alteran195

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 05:42 PM

We didn't really get a good view of the A's bridge dome, but I'd be very surprised if they got rid of that style view screen since every ship we've seen has had one.

#19 Alex

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 01:50 AM

I'd guess either the technology he was using to stay alive could change his appearance, or it was some kind of projection.

I'm almost positive that it was the result of the people Krall was absorbing to stay alive, at least that seemed to be strongly implied.

 

I feel the A really addresses some of the issues people had with the original design. Straight pylons, further apart nacelles, a better sized neck, more tos looking nacelles. I think the secondary hull is more tos-esque, but it's hard to tell from the poor quality of the video.

The "A" definitely seems to look more TOS like from several angles, and I really hope that we get some good side–by–side reference material comparing the look of the Kelvin Timeline 1701 to the Kelvin Timeline 1701–A. I

 

For the next film I hope that the villain isn't simply motivated by revenge. Each Kelvin film bad guy is out for the big R and the revelation of their motivation is some plot point/mystery. I appreciate the writers giving the villains a little depth but maybe there's another archetype they can tap for number IV.

The destruction of the Enterprise was visually cool but I just didn't feel anything while it was happening. By that point we'd only had 4+ hours of screen time with her and that wasn't enough for me to be invested. The concept of the ship itself as a character really hasn't been a theme in the new timeline yet. The loss of the prime Enterprise in Star Trek III was so much more meaningful to me, especially since it was a sacrifice (and that Horner score during that scene is just so operatic!).

After seeing the new universe treated a little more like traditional Trek I'd love to see the adventures of the new Ent-A in a limited run series or miniseries (alongside Discovery with maybe even some crossovers). Trek can totally be a mini version of the MCU.

I'm actually going to defend Krall and say that I don't really perceive him as a villain motivated by revenge, so much as I see him as a "villain" who lost his mind and was motivated by delusions of granduer. Balthazar Edison was a M.A.C.O. who served the United Earth Government honorably, and apparently fought in both the Xindi and Romulan Wars. The impression that I got was that he was the kind of guy who went off to war, and like so many soldiers, could just never adjust to peacetime. He's basically analogous to the "guy in the cave" at the end of a WWII movie who doesn't realize that the war has ended and who simply breaks down, or even to someone like Jesse James who knows that the war is officially over, but who just can't adjust to peace–time and who winds up turning into a total outlaw/madman as a result of being unable to adjust. The way I saw it, Balthazar Edison's ship was brought down by advanced alien technology on a planet that's essentially beyond the reach of the Federation in its early years. At first he follows protocol and tries to establish contact with them, but as the months and years go on, he starts to go mad, (which isn't out of character with other captains who lost their ships and/or their crews based on what we saw in TOS and TNG,) eventually winds up in a sort of "survival mode," and ultimately turns on his crew when he realizes that the Federation isn't coming to save him. With his mental capabilities deteriorating, he sees the Federation as "the enemy," likely triggering some repressed Xenophobia from the Xindi and Romulan Wars, and assumes the identity of Krall in an effort to help rationalize what he's doing. Basically, I see revenge as more of an ends to a mean for Krall than a motivation, with his motivation being delusions of granduer, the belief that he's stronger alone than as part of something like the Federation, and I see those as being brought on by him losing his sanity the way he seems to have apparently done. The way I saw it, he might have answered to "Edison" in an exchange with Kirk, but by that point he was no longer really Balthazar Edison, and instead had become this creature "Krall" that he'd made himself into.

 

I hate to say it, but I completely agree with you about the destruction of the Enterprise. It was visually awesome, it allowed for the characters to really shine, but it didn't feel like we were losing a character we really cared about this time through; just another Kelvin Timeline ship in a long list of Kelvin Timeline ships that had been lost. I have mixed feelings about the Enterprise–A too, not the design that looks quite impressive from what we've seen so far, but the way it was introduced and the fact that I feel like an opportunity was missed to not follow in the Prime Universe's footsteps by just slapping a letter on the ship after it was destroyed. With TSFS, losing the Enterprise hurt, (just as it did in GEN,) and the introduction of the Enterprise–A felt like it was healing a wound. In the Kelvin Timeline, the Enterprise–A isn't healing a wound, because losing the Enterprise just didn't hurt the same way. I honestly think it would have been more interesting to either have the crew seem to be set to go their separate ways as they'd talked about, bringing them back together in the next film, or to show a ship like the Excelsior or Reliant being constructed as a replacement for the Enterprise, but that's just me. I feel like such a change would have really made the Kelvin Timeline stand out in a good way even more. Since we have the Enterprise–A though, I also wouldn't mind something in the Kelvin Timeline on the Enterprise–A running alongside DSC either in the form of a miniseries; just something to show us its adventures and give us a reason to care about it beyond the fact that Kirk is the ship's captain.

 

Finally!!!

Alteran, I knew we would disagree on something eventually!

I was relieved to (I think) see that the new Linterprise-A has no viewscreen window.
 

Absolutely! That moment (and a few others like it) stuck out like a sore thumb. This is Star Trek! These characters are (for the most part) human! At the very least, they are generally flesh-and-blood people whose bodies obey the laws of physics!

Just because they do heroic things, that doesn't mean they need to act like superheroes!

Destructor, I'm completely with you on not wanting the Kelvin Timeline viewscreens in the Prime Universe; I just don't like the way that they look. I also noticed that the Linterprise–A, (thank you for that one, LOL) apparently has no viewscreen window, but it also seems like it might have intentionally been glossed over in the shots that we saw of it, and could be there unless we're finally going to lose that on future designs.

 

As for the action–sequences with Kirk on the saucer destined to prove Scotty wrong about being unable to change the laws of physics, on one hand I completely agree with you that just because the crew is heroic doesn't mean that they need to act like superheroes, but on the other, I felt that this worked given that it was James T. Kirk who was doing it, that he seemed to have a bit of a plan when that scene occurred, and that compared to what we've gotten in the past from the Kelvin Timeline, this is quite forgiveable in terms of pushing the action a bit more than I would normally like in Trek.

 

We didn't really get a good view of the A's bridge dome, but I'd be very surprised if they got rid of that style view screen since every ship we've seen has had one.

I'm tempted to agree with you on this. It looks like the bridge doesn't have the window–style viewscreen in what we briefly saw, but given how it seems to be a hallmark of the Kelvin Timeline, I wouldn't be surprised if it did, even if I'm hoping that it doesn't.

 

As for the film itself, I saw it with two people who grew up on TOS, (TNG premiered on my third birthday, so I grew up with TNG–VOY,) and one of them thinks it might be his favorite Trek film to date. While my favorite is still First Contact, Beyond is definitely my favorite in the Kelvin Timeline, and as far as I'm concerned, it easily ranks among Trek's best films. Yes, it has a ton of action in it, and yes I know that might alienate some viewers, but it also seemed to feel the most like a Star Trek episode, and I mean that in a completely positive way. "Beyond" succeeds where TFF, INS, and some would even argue TMP failed in this regard, because it manages to keep pacing of a movie with the style (and arguably spirit) of a two–part episode. The other examples all capture some element of "being Trek," but forget how to be a movie, whereas Beyond remembers its a movie as evidenced by the film's pacing. I really felt like I was watching a Star Trek movie for the first time since Nemesis, and that's saying something. "Sabotage" was used perfectly in a way that made sense, I appreciated the nod to Leonard Nimoy by killing Spock, and I also appreciated that there wasn't pointless phaser fire, that Kirk seemed to be trying to spare Krall's life in a very Starfleet way, and that Kirk also seemed to have calmed down a bit. One gripe I had about him in the earlier films was that he was obnoxiously cocky, and not the way Prime Universe Kirk was, but to the point where his arrogance had me wondering how the heck he was able to stay in the Captain's Chair. In this film he's still cocky as he should be, but not overconfident, and not to the point where he seems like a petulant child. I also really appreciated the scenes with Spock and McCoy that made me feel like I was watching Nimoy and Kelley again, and appreciated that Pegg gave his character a bit more screen time as well since it seemed like Scotty hadn't gotten a chance to really shine until this film. I also feel that this was Anton Yelchin's best performance as Chekov, which makes the sting of his untimely death all that more of a sucker–punch to the gut when it felt like he really put on such an amazing performance that we'll never see again. I also really liked Jaylah, and given Anton's untimely death necessitating Chekov be written out, (I really don't want to see him recast,) I think she'd be a fine replacement crewmember even in cadet form who could do what I mentioned before about distinguishing the Kelvin Timeline from the Prime Universe even more.

 

I also really appreciated how many nods to past Trek films this movie worked into it. The difference between STB and STID is that the latter felt like it was created from a checklist while the former felt like it was written and made to fit into the Trek universe along the way instead of being shoved into it with a sledgehammer. Karl Urban gave a nod to McCoy in that movie with the medallion, and the idea of how everyone seemed like they might move on felt like a nod to TMP. TWOK's birthday scene and toast to absent friends were present in a way that worked too. The destruction of the Enterprise, (and even the theft of an alien ship) felt like TSFS, the Enterprise–A felt like the sole nod to TVH, while the time on the planet seemed a little like the better parts of TFF, with Krall's actions feeling a bit like TUC. The loss of Prime Universe Spock as a nod to the loss of Nimoy also feltlike a nod to TSFS and GEN, although I'm sure that's just coincidence. Speaking of GEN, the saucer crash was shot like a homage to GEN, and I refuse to believe that was a simple coincidence based on how similar it was. The use of Sabotage felt a lot like Magic Carpet Ride in FC, while Krall's attempt at immortality felt a little like INS, with the bio–weapon feeling a little like NEM. There were obviously even more noteworthy nods to the Kelvin Timeline films, but the Prime Universe shows seemed to have nods to them as well. ENT had a huge nod with the Franklin and M.A.C.O., TOS had a nod with this feeling a bit like a traditional episode with big screen sensabilities, TNG got a bit of a nod with the font for the ending credits, while Starbase Yorktown felt a little like a Human DS9, and the discovery of the lost Franklin felt like a nod to all of those lost ships found in TOS and TNG, as well as like what might have happened if VGR had Voyager's crew fall off the rails. I thorougly enjoyed this film, and this is coming from someone who would normally complain about the action being a bit more intense than I like, but it really worked for this film in a way it might not otherwise, ands I'm quite glad that it did. This film really felt like a 50th  anninversary celebration, and I'm definitely grateful for that. :)



#20 Destructor!!!

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 05:32 PM

I'm suffering a little Stockholm syndrome with this film - it's like the last two were holding Trek (and us fans) hostage and making it dance awkwardly at gunpoint, but this time the captors are kind of into the grove, and the dance feels more genuine.

We're still huddled on the floor of a bank with alarms blaring and masked men with guns standing over us, but something feels so different - this swelling feeling of relief that the Star Trek we know isn't quite dead yet is overpowering my reason and making me indefensibly fonder of this film than it objectively deserves.

(How's that for an over-baked tongue twister of a metaphor? Try saying that stuff 10 times fast!)

I almost feel compelled to keep listing off the things I didn't like about the film - but where last time, it was out of disgust at almost every facet of the illogical Escher-maze that was STID's conception, marketing, and plot, this time it's because I feel the need to remind myself that this is merely a decent film, not the most wonderful thing ever, and it is indeed still awash with the idiocy that typified the last two films.
 
So, bearing in mind that I'm really really trying not to love Star Trek Beyond, here is a list of things I hated or thought were cringey or stupid or silly in the movie (and a few things that I'll let off the hook thanks to the rule of cool).

  • Silly: The opening scene on T'nax was very cartoonish, and not as funny as it needed to be to pull that off. It was amusing to later reflect on the T'naxi leader's raving about the Phlebonans "killing us in our beds, chopping us up and devouring us" in light of the reveal of their small stature. Are the T'naxi like sentient chicken to the Phlebonan Republic? A source of food? An interesting thought amid all the silliness of the scene, and one that might have been worth pursuing had the T'naxi character design not been so damned Dreamworks-looking.
  • Stupid: One of my biggest peeves in Space Films since becoming an amateur astronomer is the sometimes outrageously over-the-top depiction of space phenomena.
  •  - The "nebula" between Yorktown and Altamid: That thing wasn't a "nebula", it was a gods-damn coffee grinder. If there were that many giant rocks in one place, they would collapse together under gravity like the early days of our solar system. In fact, that's the only environment that could even come close to matching the conditions shown in the "nebula" - a protoplanetary disk.
  •  -  Also note how the nebula was an obstacle to exploration until the Enterprise and its "advanced navigation systems" came along, but later in the film, it posed no issue to the 100-year-old USS Franklin, or the swarm of ships that had supposedly been confined behind it for centuries.
  •  - The nebula scene was played like a submarine navigating a channel, but the same effects could have been used for a high-stakes action scene in another film. In fact, I was cringing at the though of a return to that setting for a chase scene later in the film. Thankfully, that didn't come about, but that introduces its own plot inconsistency as noted above.
  •  - Lastly, we never see any of the ships that travel between Yorktown and Altamid go to warp, so they must be within sublight range of each other. That constrains the size of a nebula that has been "impeding exploration" to a very small size indeed - again, more consistent with a protoplanetary disk than a nebula. In any scene where the nebula is seen from a distance (as in Altimid orbit or at Yorktwon), it's fairly clearly bounded around the edges. That begs the question of, if this thing is sublight-sized and discreet, why not just go around it?
  •  - So, I guess I'll add "nebula"="proto-planetary disk" to the list of things I need to mentally dub-over when I'm thinking about these films - the list already has: "black hole"=temporal anomaly, "Transwarp beaming"=subspace transporters, "Eject the warp core" = "Eject the antimatter containment pods", and so on...
  •  - Copernicus over at AintItCoolNews wrote an article that chimes very well with, and helped me crystallise some of, my issues with the nebula. Other parts of the article I agree less with, and some I dispute. There's also a very well written and considered negative review of the film in the comments section, they make great points too. Copernicus' most pertinent beef with the nebula, and the reason it sticks with me, too, is this:

    Since most people get their conceptions of astronomy from science fiction, it just make millions of people dumber for no good reason.  Star Trek is supposed to elevate and inspire, especially about space exploration, not the opposite.

  • Rule Of Cool: The destruction of the Enterprise has a number of problems
  •  - can they not transfer power from the fusion reactors in the saucer to the impulse engine without doing a Saucer Sep? Really? Isn't that just a few buttons to press?
  •  - I'm geeky enough about space physics to be bothered by the orbital mechanics involved in a ship flying away from a visibly-receeding planet at full impulse then being caught irrevocably in the planet's gravity well when the power fails. Into Darkness was far worse in this regard, but STB is straining credibility here.
  •  - none of the above moaning matters because that whole destruction scene was great - just the fact that they're talking about where the impulse engines draw power from is a massive improvement on this timeline's previous outings in terms of tech believability. It's believable that the failsafe systems might do something during an emergency secondary-hull jetisson that would be otherwise impossible given the damage to the Enterprise's systems at that point. Unlike the rest of you, and in spite of myself, I felt something for the JJprise. Perhaps it was guilt, at having love/hated that ship for so long now, seeing such heinous and brutal violence done to her was rough. It was also awesome. Hence, the Rule of Cool excuses this one. (Special mention should go to that phenomenal wide-shot of the Saucer interfacing the upper atmosphere - that wide, flat bow shock was beautiful and pretty realistic)
  • Stupid: Scotty's Cirque-du-Soleil act upon exiting his torpedo. Not only are those kinds of antics not plausible for someone like Scotty, it was just plain badly done. I didn't believe Scotty was in danger because what I was seeing did not look real. Fingers don't work like that. In this behind the scenes B-roll, you can over-hear Lin talking Pegg through the shooting of the scene, and it seems to me that Pegg is sceptical, treating this as some sort of "necessary evil" to appeal to the action demographic or something... so pointless and stupid.
  • Meh: The Bike on the Franklin. Whose is that? Why does it run on fossil fuel? Where did they get said fuel? This almost gets a Rule Of Cool excuse because the distraction scene worked well enough, and the bike didn't overstay its welcome. The scene just wasn't that cool, so it's a "meh".
  • Silly: Tipping the Franklin over the cliff. It's just so clichèd! Every action movie does something like it, and it's insulting. Every Kelvin-timeline film now, we've had a scene where a ship appears to fall to its death, but then swoops back up at the last second. The trick is obvious, there is no suspense any more, just a rolling of the eyes and a collective wondering of why DA DEEPAST VALEE EVAR happens to be nearby suddenly? SILLY! AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY!
  • Cringey: Krall's vampirism is depicted in the silliest way possible, with Elba convulsing while holding cables in which upside-down redshirts dangle. The scene's amateurism just stuck out like a sore thumb to me.
  • Rule Of Cool: Even though it's a ridiculous contrivance, and a callback to one of the worst elements of XI (Kirk's life-long 'tude), there's just enough paper-thin justification to get the "Sabotage" scene close to the threshold, and the raw adrenaline rush of the music and action combo serve to push it over into Cool territory.

Ok. thanks to anyone who endured that to the end, it was just something I needed to do to balance out my esteem for what is certainly the best Trek Movie since Nemesis, and possibly since First Contact.

 

Actually, this felt more like the first Trek film since Nemesis - those other two are something else entirely.

 

And yet, there's so much of their DNA in this one that where they felt like a "cruel parody" of Star Trek, Beyond felt like a fond parody... but a parody nonetheless. The film I was most reminded of during Beyond (in a good way), was Galaxy Quest. The tone of the humour, the aesthetics of the ships, environments, and aliens, all of it would have been at home in Galaxy Quest. But the most complimentary comparison I can draw between Beyond and Quest is perhaps the most important: They have very similar hearts.

 

In this series of reboots, even having a heart (rather than pretending to have one) is unheard of - another first for this film.

 

I hope we get this creative team (or indeed someone better!) back next time.






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