105 replies to this topic

[Prometheus]

The past isnt coming back....and we are starting to get older VF....lets face it...the torch is being passed to a younger generation.... The stories may seem bad to you but to someone who hasnt seen the past Treks these are great.... You dont know how many young people in my family like Trek now due to the JJ films. The 70s were a different time....and merchandising for TMP was not all that big .... Things really didnt take off until the early 90s....a big part due to TNG....a phenomenon that many hardcore Trek fans wouldn't accept either at the time.

Gene and Majel are gone....thats not gonna change.... and the fans ran Berman out of town....Berman was Gene's hand picked successor....but fans wouldnt have it....now the powers that be picked JJ....and we just hear the same old gripes as always.... I honestly think many Trek fans are most happy when they have something to complain about....

[Gothneo]

Merchandising was pretty all inclusive for TMP. for anyone that was there at the time, they remember you couldn't go anywhere with TMP product being thrust at you! It was everywhere!

 

but yep times have changed, and they needed to change with them.

 

I just wanted an original story

 

And yeah I know some people disagree with me but I found ITD to be very derivative... a remake that took elements of TWOK, TUC, and Insurrection and re-hashed it.

 

The whole point of the reboot was to be unfettered by the past and to be able to tell new stories w/o worrying about cannon. But then they stuck all those Easter eggs in and did it in ways to invoke fans memories of cannon?!

 

ugh! BUT... watch it as just another space-faring pop corn munching summer distraction, and its one of the best efforts of the summer!

[Prometheus]

I just dont have the time or energy to defend what I view as entertainment....I realize some treat their entertainment like sports, knowing all of the stats, having intense views, and ultimately just see themselves as fans.... I guess thats just not me....

[Prometheus]

I apologize if I seem upset.....Threads like this always get me.... Probably because I love Trek too much.... lol. Oh and just for the record...I personally love TMP.... Its a great scifi epic that really was one of Gene's true visions.....

[Jay K]

Oh let me be clear, I'm not upset by all this - happens all the time (I'm a big gamer, and some games that I loved even just 5-6 years ago, are now being turned into something they never were - guns, guns, guns, bombs, bombs, bombs etc). Regarding Star Trek, I couldn't be happier at the moment. TNG getting Blu-rayed, DS9 in all likelihood being next-up, and all these ship models - chuffed.

[Prometheus]

Star Trek is 50 years old, if anyone is under the impression it could go back telling even the kind of stories Roddenberry "got away with" back when Star Trek was fresh-faced is going to be sorely disappointed with every future and current incarnation of Star Trek. 
 
It's ultimately its own worse nightmare because it's hugely popular and by and large fans are just there to enjoy it as it comes (me) without getting to attached to a certain aspect of Star Trek. Some fans do though and thats a real shame because fans like that, I believe, limit their fundamental enjoyment of something. 
 
I stand by my opinion that whilst Into Darkness could have been better, It was the best movie of the summer and it was not a rehash of the story to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (how could it be) even though yes some blatant copying was going on LINDELOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!
 
But just to throw some comedy into the mix... 
 

 

Awesome!!! LOL Thanks 1701 :-)

[VulcanFanatic]

Simon Pegg has shared some wise words HERE about the Into Darkness Las Vegas Star Trek movie poll.

Pegg says that Into Darkness is the most successful movie ever made. Look at my previous posts in this thread and you will see that that is either ignorance or stupidity on Peggs part. 

[2thGuy]

Pegg says that Into Darkness is the most successful movie ever made. Look at my previous posts in this thread and you will see that that is either ignorance or stupidity on Peggs part. 

Actually, VF, Mr. Pegg would be correct.  ST:ID is the most successful Trek movie ever.  In terms of raw numbers, not adjusted for inflation, ST:ID out grossed ST:2009 by almost $70 million worldwide.  Not trying to start something here,  just presenting  the numbers.  

[Gothneo]

Yep, if you measure success by the gross, it is. That link I gave on the previous page supports that.

 

if your looking at say, percentage ROI... then no.

 

for example, 453.7/190 = 2.38 RoI for ITD

following suite, and using the data on places like the numbers, here's the run down on ROI for all the films...

TMP    3.97

TWOK 8.06

TSFP   4.83

TVH     5.54

TFF     2.34

TUC    3.58

GEN   3.15

FC      3.26

INS     1.68

NEM    1.12

ST       2.75

 

So a "1" means you just broke even, and you can see how nothing comes close to TWOK for ROI. TFF really took the franchise down, and it never recovered, then INS and NEM were a coup de gra of sorts, and ST really brought it back, but I think execs were looking for ITD to build on that.

 

While ITD grossed more money... it wasn't as "profitable" as its predecessor.

[VulcanFanatic]

My point exactly. What would you consider more profitable, a deal where you got $8 dollars back for every $1 dollar you put in, or a deal where you get $2.38 back for every dollar you put in? Seems pretty simple to me. Into darkness has made only slightly more than TFF.

[Gothneo]

yeah... as an investor I want the $8 thank you!

 

here's a Forbes article listing the most profitable 10 movies of 2013 thus far...

http://www.forbes.co...of-2013-so-far/

 

Looking at that list tells me one thing. Slasher films make money!

 

as block busters go... IM3 is the biggest on the list. 1.2 bil for a 200mil investment. earning $6 for every $1 invested.

[Prometheus]

I think the thing that upsets fans of the new Trek is the fact that the "purists" are just done with Trek since probably TUC.... and instead of just admitting all they will accept is some miraculous secret vault discovery of a lost classic movie or lost episodes instead they sit on their thrones of superior fandom telling anyone who doesnt agree with them that Star Trek is dead. Just admit it guys...Star Trek is far from dead....just "your" Star Trek is dead!!!!

I think it bothers you that others can just let go and appreciate new ideas instead of having to watch the same episides and movies over and over again.....

[Prometheus]

Oh....and for the record.... Harve Bennett is the man you guys should be calling to thank.... Because he usurped Gene after TMP...and was mainly responsible for TWOK, TSFS, and TVH.... Gene wanted to do a second expenIsive film based on the Guardian of Forever and the crew involved with JFKs assassination that would be much more cerebral like TMP. Harve came along and said Ill give you three block busters for the price of Gene's one sequel.... we all know what happened next....

My point with all this...Is yes we love trek...but the past wasnt some utopia where all Gene's ideas were the golden rule...and everything was perfect. There were politics and power shifts even during the original show and films.

Star Trek has always been like a big experiment with different writers, producers,etc.... the only thing that has been consistent is the huge fan base....and that is mainly because of Star Treks world wide syndication in the early 70s...it created a huge following.

[Gothneo]

lol. That's a bit of prejudicial view of people that don't care for ITD!

 

I can easily turn that around and say, yeah! I wish I didn't have to watch the same movie e.g. "The Wrath of Khan - redux"! See what I did there? ITD is Wrath of Khan, so watching it is like watch the same movie over again

 

I go to movies all the time, and unfortunately, to me, most stuff is derivative. Its just rare when something with a fresh take comes along. I still enjoy most of them. Some are a bit too "lazy" to me, like IM3. I know its a huge hit and success, but it was really allot like IM2 to me.

 

For example, on my thumbs up list of 2013... Man Of Steel, Elysium, Kick Ass 2, The Wolverine, and *gasp* STITD!

 

On my thumbs down list, Pacific rim, G.I. Joe:Retaliation, The Incredible Burt Wonderstone

 

That's not to say that I don't have issues with movies I give the thumbs up... I clearly have issues with ITD, but that didn't preclude me from recognizing it for what it was and enjoying it in that context. (I still don't like it as a Star Trek Movie though!)

[Prometheus]

Its not just ITD gothneo....before ITD it was 2009...before that it was any of the Berman "nonsense".... lets face it...unless its Shatner et all its not Trek. .

[Gothneo]

Ok, I get it, your talking about the general angst long time fans experience due to change.

 

Yep, When TNG came along, it was the end of the world, and then the same for DS9, Voy, etc...

 

Some things work, and some things don't! not every fan likes every series, or all the movies. I can agree, that JJ's Movies will be an "era" they will leave there mark and some will like it and some won't... but WE (people that sign on to trek forums) love to discuss it all I think!

 

There are any number of threads that talk about what could be done to revitalize the franchise in a way that would make it more profitable. My own opinion, is that Star Trek works best on the small screen, not at the movies, and movies should be "extras" to fans. I come to that conclusion when I look at the body of work... 12 movies, and really only 3 I consider really quite good, lots of mediocrity, and several real stinkers. 

 

I guess we were discussing whats the worst movie... and we kind of got off talking about different way to gauge a successful movie or a failure.

[JMW326]

Honestly when it comes to the movies I enjoyed them all. The one I think was the worst of the lot was ST5. But I still like to watch it for its absurdity and because its Star Trek. I don't get the hate for the new movies just like I didn't get the hate the last TNG movie got. Some people seem to have an idealized vision of what Star Trek is and can't enjoy anything other than that vision. It's sad but whatever.
When it comes to the TNG movies I am in the minority because my least favorite movie was First Contact. I loved Both Generations and Nemesis and really liked Insurrection. I thought both of the new movies were really great and are in fact real Star Trek. I think a lot of "fans" of Star Trek went into them with their minds made up already that they were not going o like them and with that mindset did nothing but pick them apart instead of seeing them with an open mind.