50 replies to this topic

[Gothneo]

Is it really another full year delay? I guess it keeps getting delayed so much, that I just assume whatever the latest date they give us was the date they intended to release it all along.

Well FHC... its only one data point, but I'm over 40 and I just haven't gotten engaged in the 2009 movie like I have in others. It was fun, but unlike previous franchise efforts, I just have no interest in watching it again. I didn't buy the DVD and I'll probably wait to see the 2013 movie when it hits Red Box for $1.25.

So, I think I agree with you that the new franchise is geared towards 20 somethings. And you know what... I'm fine with that. I know some fans were/are still really upset with the way it was done, but I'm not the demographic they need to sustain the franchise, and I have 45 years of Trek that I can watch on DVD anytime and enjoy. I still want them to put out movies quicker than every 4 years though as a healthy franchise means that there are more merchandising offerings, and some of its bound to be something that appeals to me!

[TheHSBR]

So Karl Urban now is saying that Gary Mitchell is our bad guy. http://blastr.com/20..._medium=twitter
You think this is for real or just a red herring?

[Commodore Kor'Tar]

Red Herring!

[TheHSBR]

That costume doesnt scream Khan to me though but we'll see!

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

I rather hope this isn't a red herring actually. If they're going to go deep into the TOS era then Gary Mitchell's a good way to go deep. I love that episode and it shows some signs of intelligent lateral thinking on the part of the writers.

It also shows that this - if true - that this movie totally isn't being aimed solely towards the 20-somethings because they don't know who this character is - or his significance - unless they grew up watching TOS on DVD at mummy or daddy's knee.

While I have no interest in "baby Kirk" or "juvenile delinquent Kirk" - Kirk as a young man and the relationships he forged in his early career do interest me a lot. Who didn't want to know more of the history between those two men?

It's a really good way to keep the appeal of this movie wide and use the TOS canon intelligently and with flair - after all it will take place in Abrams' rebooted universe and so the story could go absolutely anywhere!

[TheHSBR]

To be honest Gary Mitchell even if not the main villian could provide a subplot or secondary villian. Im just not too hot on rebooting Khan so early but after the long delay they may need something big to draw the fans back. Hopefully they wont hotshot stuff.

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

To be honest Gary Mitchell even if not the main villian could provide a subplot or secondary villian.

To be honest, that is what I was kind of assuming. I don't think you could fly a movie on the back of Gary Mitchell because it's far too esoteric for people new to TOS - they could have created a villain like Dr.Soran for that purpose.

Im just not too hot on rebooting Khan so early but after the long delay they may need something big to draw the fans back. Hopefully they wont hotshot stuff.

I'm glad you see the issue I have with the delay in releasing a sequel! Like you I wouldn't want to see Khan being dangled like a carrot to draw people back. Even non-Trekkers and youngsters know who Khan is but the character is far too good to waste on this - if they reboot Khan it needs to be done with intelligence and a whole lot more about the Eugenics Wars ... hopefully.

[Gothneo]

I have to agree with you both.

Additionally, I think you've given me another way to look at a Khan Reboot Jules. I'd say I was initially opposed to any story w/Kahn, mostly because what we already had was very good, and is still satisfying. You've hit the mail on the head. I want new stories that explore aspects of characters and relationships we have not seen yet. Not a rehashing of the old stuff with new actors.

[JMW326]

I think they can retell the old shows in a new way that would be smart and fun to see. I am also up for seeing something entirely new.
Just imagine what could be done with Khan or any of the other characters or episodes. the what if are endless.
What if instead of Kirk and crew finding Khan and his people the Klingons picked him up and he took over their ship and then crossed paths with the Enterprise.
What if Matt Decker destroyed the doomsday machine but lost his ship in the process. So when Kirk and crew arrive to rescue them from being stranded on a planet Decker and crew take control of the Enterprise and set out to find the people that made the device and the Enterpise crew has to regain control before an armada of Doomsday devices destroy everything.
What if the Enterprise arrives at K7 to protect a shipment of grain only to find that the klingons have already destroyed it in an effort to eradicate the tribble and that leads to an all out war between the federation and the klingons.
There are so many ways things can go on the same path but unfold very differently. I would love to see stuff like this.
It doesnt have to be black or white. It doesn't have to be a strict retelling or something completely new only. It can be both. let events from an old episode lead to something new.

[Gothneo]

Well... thats a bit of my issue... I'm not so concerned about the "what ifs" as I am with "what about".

for example, the Story of Kahn and Kirk's interactions have been told. I don't need a redux of them. However, Kahn could have influence on a Trek story in more of a secondary manner... if you assume he's already been exiled by kirk, and before he gets his opportunity for "revenge".

One of things that made WOK work so well, was you had a clear antagonist that was rooted from the TOS days, and they asked the question, "what about khan? whats happened to him?"

They spent allot of time (and money) trying to re-intruoduce Star Trek... Kirk & Spock, to a new generation. That was the purpose of the re-boot IMO. Now, either they succeeded or they didn't, and they wont know until they do another movie, but they need to find material, that has a basis in TOS, that we can ask "what about"... THat is what Manny Coto was so good at in the last season of ENT. He kept asking what about... what about Orion Slave Girls, what about sing... what about the USS Defiant...

for example, if we get a re-telling of "Where no man has gone before", I suspect most people will enjoy it, but I'll be disappointed.

Really, one of the best "what about" stories that can easily be mixed with any "what if" would be something to do with the city on the edge of forever. But I'll wait and see what they do and judge it then!

[JulesLuvsShinzon]

for example, the Story of Kahn and Kirk's interactions have been told. I don't need a redux of them. However, Kahn could have influence on a Trek story in more of a secondary manner... if you assume he's already been exiled by kirk, and before he gets his opportunity for "revenge".

Hmmmm, I'm just thinking that Kirk sent Khan into exile during TOS, but WOK takes place during Kirk's later career. There's have to be a way of them meeting in the newly early TOS era that isn't a redux of Space Seed. Supposing that in the rebooted Abramsverse, supposing that it isn't Kirk who finds Khan aboard the Botany Bay and Khan gains full control of a starship and threatens the people who sent him into exile all those years ago?

One of things that made WOK work so well, was you had a clear antagonist that was rooted from the TOS days, and they asked the question, "what about khan? whats happened to him?"

Agreed! And it was a great story too!

They spent allot of time (and money) trying to re-intruoduce Star Trek... Kirk & Spock, to a new generation. That was the purpose of the re-boot IMO. Now, either they succeeded or they didn't, and they wont know until they do another movie, but they need to find material, that has a basis in TOS, that we can ask "what about"... THat is what Manny Coto was so good at in the last season of ENT. He kept asking what about... what about Orion Slave Girls, what about sing... what about the USS Defiant...

I couldn't agree more! I think the older fans - who they really do need to retain - will appreciate some forays into Trek's past providing it's done in an intelligent way that also interests the first-time viewer. I keep telling myself there has to be a point to rebooting the Trek universe and praying it isn't to make movies out of old TV episodes or remake the TOS movies.

for example, if we get a re-telling of "Where no man has gone before", I suspect most people will enjoy it, but I'll be disappointed.

As would I! Besides WNMHGB was a prefect slice of TV sci-fi - but expanding that perky episode into an entire movie? No. And the producers don't want to fall into that old critical trap of Trek movies being like expanded TV episodes.

Really, one of the best "what about" stories that can easily be mixed with any "what if" would be something to do with the city on the edge of forever. But I'll wait and see what they do and judge it then!

In spite of having a strong female protagonist, that wasn't one of my favourite episodes because I didn't buy the love affair that sprung up between Kirk and Keeler. There were great parts in it - especially Spock manipulating early 20th century technology, but I'd agree that the premise of the episode has legs. Definitely.