55 replies to this topic

[weyoun_9]

So, in multiple threads we are all upset about the pre-order conundrum...I thought I'd start a separate thread to collect everyone's thoughts. When I use the phrase "we" please note that I mean to include all those who would like to see a change to the pre-sale situation and that I realize this may not reflect the thoughts of everyone on trektoy.com. What I feel like I've seen so far is:

1. Overall there is little confidence in the timing of delivery, and since pre-orders are not charged until the product is delivered, many are no longer pre-ordering because they do not want to be surprised by a charge during a month or time they were not originally expecting. In other words, we don't want to put money on hold indefinitely in this economy. If we are committing to a sale date, that is when we budget the money for.

2. Given that we cannot cancel pre-orders through some vendors should our circumstances change, we are also not willing to commit to a product prematurely. Many would prefer to make the purchase once the item becomes available.

3. It seems AA/DST is basing the success or failure of a line largely on the number of pre-sales...I would add the question...then why doesn't DST have these items available for pre-order on their website? They have done this in the past with BSG Tyrol? Is this to avoid conflict with vendors or are they not equipped to handle this?

4. It is possible as consumers we would be more willing to pre-order or commit ahead of schedule if we felt that the products were going to be released in a timely fashion or, in the case of the "figure of the month" suggestion, we were assured that there would be diversity in the product offerings.

Please feel free to correct any thoughts that I misrepresented and, more importantly, add your own to this thread. Maybe there is a way we can collectively come up with solutions or suggestions that will help AA/DST keep providing us with the toys we have such passion for.

[Whirlygig]

Someone could try asking them in the Q&A:

"I don't pre-order because my budget is tight and I need to know exactly when the item will come out. With your products that has proven difficult to know. Then I learn that the product I wanted is canceled because pre-orders were too low. Do you recognize this as a potential problem among numerous customers and do you have any plans to help the situation?"

I think they have said, time and time again, that they are working on decreasing delays. I don't have any kind of a spreadsheet or history of what products were delayed by what amounts -- maybe in fact the delays are getting shorter -- but my gut tells me there has been little improvement.

I may just have to accept things as they are. I could say a number of things, like "maybe Paramount should pull their head out and realize that DST isn't serving the license well enough", or "maybe DST should pull their head out and do some market research NOT based on pre-orders", and so on and so forth. But maybe the reality is, there really isn't a big market for these figures and maybe they really are doing the best they can with what little there is. Maybe I just have to accept that BSG and Stargate can drive new figure development, but Star Trek can't. And heck, maybe I should be happy about that, because it's saving me money... and space!

[tanda1701]

I solve the problem with pre-orders by having a seperate bank account for my toy funds. I deposit the money over time for what I pre-order or plan to pre-order. I then pre-order through Newforce and pay via Paypal. Rick sends a paypal invoice when the item is in so I have time to run to the bank to deposit money if neccesary. This seems to work good for me.

[pawpal]

Going by the way DST delays or cancels their releases, your 'pre-order account' might just turn into a nice amount of savings in the long run!

[TheHSBR]

theres no real solution. With capitalism a business MUST take risk to make profit. There is no way around it. If capitalism had a guarenteed profit everyone would own a business. DST does not want to take risk and thus I think they will either utimately fail or make a little profit to sustain opertaions for a few pieces here and there. One can only take the "safe" route for so long before something turns for the worse so hiopefully DST can at least continue to give us a few things every now and then that we want. Specialty toy companies have always been like this where they make a big splash like AA did way back when and eventually die out to make room for new toy companies who want to take the risk. If DST is unwilling to take a risk then we are all wasting time discussing possible solutions.

[JonWes]

You've definitely hit the nail on the head as to why I don't pre-order. Ideally when you pre-order you deduct the money from your account as though it's already spent. But most people in real life don't do that. If I had more excess funds it would be fine. But money is tight right now. Usually I have to sacrifice one kind of fun thing in order to do another kind of fun thing. Buying a toy is a fun thing for me that I have to make allowances for. But I can't really do that months and months ahead of time.

[New Frontier]

TheHSBR got it right. DST have had a good run with the license, i feel perhaps it's time to quit while your ahead and let someone else take the license if companies see a profit in it - however risky this license is, i think money is going to be made from it.

It's like the franchise itself, Berman and co. had a good 18 years at the helm, after a while the freshness had become stagnant - along comes JJ Abrams and look at Star Trek now!

[s8film40]

My biggest problem with pre-ordering aside from the uncertainty that the items will be produced or when is incomplete figure lines. For example I would love to collect the new DS9 figures but before I sink a whole bunch of money into the line I am going to wait and see if they actually finish out the rest of the crew. I think this is the big flaw in DST's business model. It worked ok with TNG because there was a feeling that they would follow through and complete the line. Even so I didn't run out and buy the Worf/Riker line but once the Picard/Riker line was out and the Data/Geordi line looked promising this for me is when I buy. No one really wants half an action figure line. I don't think DST should expect the commitment of pre-orders if they can't commit to completing the line.

[JonWes]

That's one of the reasons I stopped collecting Star Trek figures full-stop. I had most of the Enterprise figures except T-Pol and Mayweather as I was waiting for the deluxe versions with the Bridge pieces. Well I never got them, because Mayweather never came out and it all seemed pointless. We never got a normal Phlox and at the time we didn't have a normal Trip. I gave up on the line long before the exclusive Trip came out. I just totally gave up on it because I didn't trust that we'd get a complete crew again. Now I've missed out on a lot of figures and some were exclusives. I'd love to get the DS9 figures... but a DS9 crew without Quark or Kira in her Bajoran uniform just seems odd.

[JMW326]

I used to pre order everything I wanted from DST based on their proposed ship dates. Until I got bit in the rear one to many times with things being delayed to many times. Items would get delayed and delayed until it was time for something else to come out and then that would get delayed. Then the next thing you know is that everything that you have ordered over the last year has suddenly come in all at once and you have a bill of a couple hundred dollars. That is what made me stop pre ordering. It just wasn't worth it. Especialy when it seems like you can pretty much get everything you want on clearance later on. I will pre order something if it is something that I realy realy want but I will never pre order an item that I dont care to have. Now I just wait to see what actualy makes to to the stores then order it after it is here.

[CanOpener1256]

I preordered the D for $58 over 4 months ago. I had the money then but one unexpected operation later I don't (so it stays on the credit card for a few months ... big deal).

I can understand some items being risky but lets face it, the ships sell. Just look at ebay with $150 NX-01 and $80 1701-A WOKs. There is a demand for this stuff. They say it is hard to do more than one ship a year. If i were them, I would ramp up production and get three out at a time ( a year). I think there is gold in them thar hills and nobody is mining it. So I don't understand the need for pre-orders. People want the Defiant, the C, the DS7 and others.

[pawpal]

Heck, if DST did a couple ships a year based on Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica AND Stargate, their sales would skyrocket! But they can't see the forest for the trees...

And don't they have the Terminator license too (for the earlier movies)? Who would not want electronic lights & sounds ground and aerial Hunter Killers?

[knightone]

And don't they have the Terminator license too (for the earlier movies)? Who would not want electronic lights & sounds ground and aerial Hunter Killers?

I know I would. I was so eager for the Playmates HK. Then it came out and it totally sucked. DST could have done a far better job.

[Hirogen]

theres no real solution. With capitalism a business MUST take risk to make profit. There is no way around it. If capitalism had a guarenteed profit everyone would own a business. DST does not want to take risk and thus I think they will either utimately fail or make a little profit to sustain opertaions for a few pieces here and there. One can only take the "safe" route for so long before something turns for the worse so hiopefully DST can at least continue to give us a few things every now and then that we want. Specialty toy companies have always been like this where they make a big splash like AA did way back when and eventually die out to make room for new toy companies who want to take the risk. If DST is unwilling to take a risk then we are all wasting time discussing possible solutions.

Exactly, a business needs to spend money to make money. Bottom line. I see DST only producing TOS items here and there but never anything else unfortunatly. I so wanted a Voyager crew but I don't see that ever happening.

[sallah]

One way to help preorders may be to just express interested at your local comic shop if you're the kind that buys your stuff locally. I know alot of people who wait to buy something until it's actually on the shelf at their local store. Well, unless that local retailer knows he has customers for a certain product, he won't order it...there's just too much risk to buy something unless you know you have customers for it. After all, it's not the end consumer's preorders that DST is counting; it's the preorders from retailers, a large protion of which are the brick and mortar comic shops.

Sallah

[TheHSBR]

Very few stores actually carry this stuff now. One local comic shop (out of 3) carried the electronic Kirk chair because it was a specialty item. The only other place that I know to get stuff is TRU. My other comic shop at one time carried Stargate but thats taken a big hit and almost every item was placed on clearance.

[sallah]

Very few stores actually carry this stuff now. One local comic shop (out of 3) carried the electronic Kirk chair because it was a specialty item. The only other place that I know to get stuff is TRU. My other comic shop at one time carried Stargate but thats taken a big hit and almost every item was placed on clearance.

All of the 5 comic shops around me have at least stocked Trek stuff, even though it's been in very small quantities. Everything seems to sell out, but they may have been able to sell more had they been given more input from the costumers. But they can only order what they know will sell, and they can't know if it will sell unless a customer asks for it...

Sallah

[TheHSBR]

Which is a doubled edged sword in some cases because if I buy from a B&M then Im not buying from an online source. I think many of us are already either preordering or buying when released from an online source.I dont think taking sales away from one and giving them to another is going to make much of a difference. Us requesting, preordering, or other tactic isnt going to change the new business model set forth by DST in this economy. They are pretty dead set with what they believe sells and it would take a massive wave of old/new buyers to change that. Even if everyone on this board requests their comic shop to do something thats still less than 150 people. What really killed DST is places like Suncoast and FYE discontinue buying. Those were good retail outlets that consistently bought. The problem with comic shops is they buy a case here a case there through Previews and can change it at a moments notice.

[FHC]

Why do things come in all out once sometimes?? Ok I'll tell you.

You sell preorders and are trying to get x y and z made. While you're working on them, the price of oil shoots up. Yes plastic is made from oil and so oil goes way up, plastic goes way up. If you make the product that you presold while oil was cheaper, while it is higher, then you would lose a ton and the more you sell of them the more you lose. So, while you're waiting, oil prices drop again, you hammer them out as fast as you can.

That my friends may help everyone understand some things better.

[knightone]

I dont think taking sales away from one and giving them to another is going to make much of a difference.

You're right, it doesn't. It doesn't matter who buys the figures, online or B&M, as long as someone is buying them. DST doesn't care where they go, as long as they go somewhere. So it doesn't matter if New Force is the one buying 5000 figures or if it is 5000 B&M stores each buying one. To DST, it is the total number moved out of their warehouse that matters. They produce a certain number of figures in each production run and they have to sell a certain number of them to make a profit. So the important thing for them is to find people who want to carry the product: TRU, comic shops, online retailers, anyone. So it doesn't matter where you buy them, it's just important that you buy them so someone will want to carry them.