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Ok.. but the cracks in showing the flaws directly in humanity in trek started in DS9... pretty much in the Pilot Cisco is shown to be "Damaged"... actually maybe even a bit in some episodes of TOS and TNG... though I wouldn't say it was a theme.
 
The truth is that even in the future people have pain, suffering, heartbreak.. etc. so why not express it in Trek?  If one dislikes Discovery for this, then you need to throw out everything after TNG... which I think some people have espoused to. 

Youre absolutely right! Pain, suffering, heartbreak is human and should be explored in Star Trek,  But DS9 and VGR had first the luxury of being an expansion of the TNG universe and second in all of the 24th century shows as well as Enterprise, there was always a sense of levity, unity and family and optimism. It wasnt all war, it wasnt all bleak, there was always hope

Discovery may not end up being bleak or distopian and may end up being the perfect Star Trek show but i dont know if this story and the way its being told, is really necessary?

I keep going back to Doctor Who as an example here but I think its relevant.

Its not that Discovery is a bad show, its not. Its not even bad Star Trek but If Doctor Who were told as a serialised series like Discovery is, would it still hold true to what you want from a new doctor who series? Id have to say no because it becomes something fundamentally different.

From day 1, Star Trek was episodic Television that was about a crew of 7, that experienced pain, heartbreak and suffering, but always worked together to overcome an external force that involved moral dilemma reflecting the issues we deal with in real life. In every series though, the crew of the Enterprise or Voyager or Deep space Nine, they were what we should aspire to being. A model for humanity.

Yes Discoverys crew is diverse, yes they are interesting characters, but they are flawed, unlikeable human beings from the 21st century (with some exception), from our world today, not the 23rd or 24th and thats the problem. Its an interesting argument to have; This is Star Trek, it has Star Trek themes running through it but at the same time its not Star Trek, its a show that reflects a lot of Star Trek but it is something else entirely. Whether it evolves into Star Trek... thats another argument.

Maybe it seems like that to you , but to someone who watched it when it originally aired, it was majestic, noble, for the most part a morally good and decent people fleeing from a evil race of beings that had destroyed their home world's and set out on a quest to find A new home on the planet Earth.
The reboot so radically changed this concept that I wouldn't have even wanted them to find Earth they were such a repugnant race of beings, no better than the cylons.

And here's me thinking you were tired of this conversation.

No one is forcing you to watch Star Trek. Sure ok you loved/still love some aspect of this 51 year old franchise but don't shit all over other people's Star Trek. Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't make it any less of a Star Trek series. Perhaps YOUR tastes have changed or perhaps they haven't changed at all but Star Trek has had to change because the world has changed.

Whatever the reason might be, the fact is YOU don't like this incarnation of Star Trek. Who fecking cares? Star Trek will im sure, go on without you and be just as Star trekky to millions of others.

I wonder if CBS/the Discovery team are looking at The Orville and how Star Trek fans are reacting to it and thinking... shit, what do we do now?

I still don't think The Orville will go past a first season, if it does, it may be joining Discovery on a streaming service but I think what it has done is perhaps opened some eyes as to what Star Trek fans really wanted out of Star Trek from when Enterprise was cancelled.

Yeah I got what VF was saying. it just wasn't funny.

It wasn't funny because it's clearly come from a place of bitterness.

Bitterness because for VF Star Trek has become something he doesn't recognise anymore and hasn't done for quite some time, it's become something he doesn't agree with and it's become something he feels is as a result of a wider change in society...

He is entitled to his opinions, no matter how bitter and bigoted they may seem to me and have come across, joke or no joke in his previous post. If you have those opinions, if you believe that this world is going to the dogs because we are becoming more tolerant and accepting of minority groups then I wholeheartedly question your credentials as a fan of Star Trek.

As far as I'm concerned it's about time Star Trek really embraced inclusivity and rammed it as far down our throats as possible - let's see a transgender main character.

As far as I can see, exploring inclusivity and all the troubles we find ourselves in today accepting others with differing lifestyles to the majority is one thing Star Trek: Discovery is doing and hopefully will do effectively.

VF you clearly have a choice here, you can go on being bitter about Discovery, or you can begin to question whether or not Star Trek has anything left to give to you and the opinions you have.

Absolutely, I meant that fans have entered this world through every incarnation and that should be welcomed and embraced by the existing fan community not rejected by fans who can't look beyond their preconceptions over their idea of Star Trek. New fans are rediscovering old series via the new movies, but Star Trek is to the individual, that initial point of contact with the franchise. If that fan is brought into Trek via Star Trek Into Darkness, to that fan, Star Trek Into Darkness is Star Trek. If he or she goes and finds TOS or DS9, Then they may very well believe that those shows are better, but that doesn't make Star Trek Into Darkness any less an important part of Star Trek for that person. Loads of people are fans of the 2009 movie but hate the older shows and movies and that's fine, that's what's great about this franchise. It's many things to many people and while absolutely be critical of Star Trek's many incarnations but I get really annoyed when fans almost come across as feeling that they have some kind of god given right to tell someone who loves Into Darkness or will be brought into this world through Discovery, that they're wrong or not a true Star Trek fan for liking those versions of Trek. That's such a ridiculous notion as we were all brought into this franchise at various points of its 50 year history.

Was waiting for the them to find Bantha tracks and get attacked by Sandpeople. Maybe take a ride in a sandcrawler?

VF, I've shared some of your concerns about this series but not everything set on a desert is instantly copying Star Wars. Desert locations existed way before Star Wars was a twinkle in George Lucas' eye.

I get yours and many others frustration over Discovery but it's too late. This show is coming, its 16 days away, it's time to just accept that and move on.

By all means critique the show when it airs, but the time has kind of passed to be bitter about this, it's time to let go and let the pieces fall as they may.

It could suck, but Star Trek deserves everyone's benefit of the doubt, these men and women who've worked on this show have been nothing but gracious, respectful and passionate about not just the show they're making but of Star Trek and it's continuing legacy. That may not translate into a good solid Star Trek show but it's at least enough to earn some respect from those who claim to be Star Trek fans.

Put down the pitch fork, enjoy the ride and if you really don't like it or have no intention of watching, then respectfully, it's time you walked away. For you, for many others Star Trek has clearly turned its back and moved on from what you know and understand as being true/real Star Trek.

Don't let this be like a long drawn out break up, where you both want to remain friends but you just can't bear to see her move on to other guys, enjoying her life and experiencing new things while you wallow in bitterness and self pity.

Star Trek has moved on, it's up to you (and me and many others) as to whether or not there's a friendship there worth saving. Or whether she's just changed too much and that new bf; All Access, is just too much of a dick to get past.

Alteran, I get your frustration and I respect your view. I can see where you're coming from.

From where I sit, I see a badly damaged franchise that hasn't recovered from Enterprise. I see two studios with varying ideas on how Star Trek should be handled and neither one of them with the right ideas on how to move it forward.

The rumours surrounding discovery may or may not turn out to be true but more often than not, whilst rumours aren't always 100% accurate, there is usually some truth to them.

I guess we will find out in due course as to the fate of Discovery. All I can say is how I feel about Star Trek right now and I have to say that I feel frustrated by it.

I'm frustrated that the studios can't work together, I'm angry that they've decided to reimagine/reinvent Star Trek when there was nothing wrong with Star Trek's look before Abrams took over. Yes new writers needed to be brought in to freshen the storytelling up but at least everything looked like it was mean to be in the Star Trek universe, I'm annoyed that this is a series set a mere 10 years before Kirk and Spock and nothing looks like it's from that era except the phasers.

I'm dubious that so much of what I've seen looks too generic sci fi and not unique to Star Trek. I'm worried that this version of Star Trek will have lost the optimism and the hope that made Star Trek a household name. I'm disappointed that both Paramount and CBS have copied other franchises to make Star Trek more accessible, instead of being truthful and respectful of Star Trek's past.

Most of all though I'm ashamed of both Paramount and CBS for not having any confidence in Star Trek and have instead tried to reshape it into something it isn't - a Star Wars knock off on the big screen and a game of thrones in space serial on the small screen.

They've failed to understand Star Trek and that is so disappointing. In 12 years, all Star Trek has had to show for it is 3 movies, each more mediocre than the last. Discovery should of been an easy and triumphant return. Instead it's another desperate reimagining of something ALREADY POPULAR.

In my opinion, being a prequel to TOS, Star Trek: Discovery should of looked as though it was a collection of lost episodes of TOS. Uniforms, props, aliens, sets, ships... each costume, prosthetic, ship meticulously recreated for this triumphant return of Star Trek, new characters, new stories, episodic television at its absolute finest, as if an historian from the 25th century was looking through old tapes of a period in the Prime Timeline - not a confusing mesh of different designs, something reimagined to look like everything we expect sci fi to look like these days - that's not Star Trek.

Star Trek leads the way for others to be inspired by it.

With all the talk over Star Trek: Discovery and over the right and wrong way to produce a Star Trek production, how would you do it?

In my opinion Star Trek is an episodic adventure that may incorporate the odd two part story or arc that runs in the background throughout an entire season.

First and foremost though Star Trek is about one crew, one ship on a pioneering exploratory adventure through the vastness of space, boldly going where these heroes come into contact with contemporary issues that in some way shape or form reflect our own world through the eyes of the fictional Star Trek universe. Whist stories can be as complex as any writer wishes to make them; the premise to Star Trek is clearly quite a simple one.

My idea if I were CBS would be to employ the talents of those who have worked on Star Trek over the 50 years and a fan base who have shown their credentials already through Star Trek: Continues and New Voyages to guide this series but to also reach out to Netflix to ensure that production values were high. No more All Access but a dedication to Star Trek that CBS won't use it to launch their fledgling streaming service but to ensure that Star Trek was given the best.

My idea for a series would be to go back to what everyone loves Star Trek for: bright, enjoyable, whimsical, intelligent and cerebral storytelling. A new generation will be inspired as we return to a legendary universe of characters and aliens as well as introducing new worlds, new species, new characters to an ever expanding universe of stories.

Set onboard a new starship Enterprise packed with new technologies for a new generation to be inspired by. A series set in the early 25th Century, a new crew takes command and is thrust into a pioneering adventure to seek out new worlds, new life and new civilisations, to boldly go where no one has been before...

Simple.

I can't help but feel that there's a lot of problems we've simply not been privy to.

I know that with TNG there were also a lot of problems but we live in very different times in terms of television production. Star Trek can't take three seasons to find its feet, it has to come out of the dock an exciting and must see television series, its numbers must be solid and the response it gets from fans and newcomers, positive.

The interesting thing here though is that there's another potential mini series in the early stages of production; a series by Nicholas Meyer that focuses on Khan...

Now that new series signals to me that CBS are changing their mind on the Anthology idea Bryan Fuller pitched in the very beginning. I think as a result of the problems had with Discovery and perhaps the negative feedback given to CBS from test screenings and general criticism of the show made by fans and pretty much everyone outside of fandom - this show is not well liked and as a result not going to go beyond season 1.

While there has been some great effort to showcase those fans who do seem to be willing to give it a chance, I do wonder if the passion we've seen from the creative talent on discovery is merely a desperate plea to the fans in trying to get them onboard.

That's worked for some people but I think the vast majority of people are still pretty annoyed that this show isn't a return to the Star Trek we all wanted to see back.

It's also telling the amount or lack thereof, effort Netflix seem to be putting in to advertise this series compared to their other shows.

There's just something that isn't sitting right about this show, there seems to be a sense of fear and confusion surrounding this production that goes deeper than just aesthetics and plot.

I think Star Trek is in a bit of a mess.

According to wikipedia its not about hard science-fi... its soft! 

I wouldn't believe anything Wikipedia says 😆

Soft/hard it's Science Fiction at its very very best. It presents plausible ideas that have in some ways have become reality. Star Trek is probably the most influential, impactful television programme around. We live in a world that has been partly shaped by Star Trek. From mobile phones to sliding doors  and iPads to real advances in technology for exploration, science, medicine and engineering.

Discovery is a show that is probably not Star Trek enough. It's character driven drama, focused too much on being like game of thrones or Star Wars in the movie theatres.

While 50 years on, Star Trek is still a force, if the studios aren't willing to go beyond playing it safe. Aren't willing to create a Star Trek that inspires young people to be engineers, scientists, inventors, artists, technicians, philosophers and dreamers... if they aren't willing to create a show that respects continuity and canon while moving the Timeline forward on a new ship named Enterprise, manned by a new crew, icons and heros for a new generation to follow, to be inspired by like I have been, like you have been and everyone here has been in some way shape or form, then all Discovery can ever be is just a good show.

Trek needs to be bolder. Pioneering, not just great drama, yes It needs to continue the human adventure, to hold up a mirror to our own society but it also needs to inspire us; what's beyond the holodeck, the last truly inspirational piece of tech invented by Star Trek and becoming a reality slowly but surely through VR and augmented reality software.

Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder if DST have dropped Star Trek - the only thing that would suggest otherwise is the god awful exclusive

I mean come on, let's face it, DST are hardly trying anymore. That exclusive was appalling and sums up DST's Star Trek line right now; cheap looking, tacky and half arsed.

Are you really handling your ships that much? Mine sit on a dresser looking good, rarely being picked up and handled.

As Razorgeist says, it is a sort of psychological thing. But also, I have the same ikea MALM chest of draws as you, those draws roll back with some force. The lighter the ship, the easier it is to topple over.

That can also be said for the heavier ships too but that's due to the appalling manufacturing of the stands. The Klingon Bird of Prey? Perfect. The stand distributes the weight of the ship nicely.

Also Goth jests, but a solid wooden piece of furniture is far more expensive than an IKEA piece of furniture.

Clear or black stands that are uniformed throughout the line would be great.

Nope? Seems legit, Picard on the holodeck during the Enterprise episode These are the Voyages...

At a point in its long history, Star Trek became a period piece.

If you're going to set your show in a specific time period, that has already been established previously, you better not screw it up and mess around with it. Add to it, compliment it but don't reimagine it.

Star Trek is also about characters and stories so what does it matter if it looks like it's set in the same world as TOS? It doesn't because the stories Star Trek has always told had nothing to do with its look. It's look has since become iconic so why not use it?

This whole idea that audiences will not take it seriously if it looks like it did back in the 60's is utter utter nonsense. Of course sets aren't going to be made as cheaply, so there is no reason why with modern production values, that the aesthetic of TOS couldn't be reintroduced and done effectively for a modern TV series.

As Doung Drexler has pointed out several times; Star Trek has not been given the respect it has deserved, the Abrams movies take far too much inspiration from Star Wars and instead it has been thoughtlessly reimagined by people who don't understand or care about its continuity or canon but insist that Star Trek has to be something modern and cool for the sake of appealing to a modern audience.

I call bullshit on that. Don't fuck with something that works, don't reimagine aspects of Star Trek that for 50 years have worked just fine. It's unnecessary and undermines the foundations Gene Roddenberry established 50 years ago.

Even Enterprise through all of its faults, worked for the most part and had people working on it that took care and made sure that every single aspect of that ship for example, was explained and thought out in terms of how it evolved from Enterprise NX-01 to the constitution class ships from TOS.

With Discovery so far, we've seen uniforms that don't fit the era, ships with Kelvin timeline windscreens, overly generic futuristic displays and sets that don't look at all like Star Trek.

You wanna reinvent Star Trek, either call it something else or set your series 50/100 years into Star Trek's future, there you can reinvent everything without having to distort the established continuity of the Star Trek world.

Discovery might be great but I'm disappointed in how CBS has seemingly treated the likes of Doug Drexler, Mike and Denise Okuda, Bryan Fuller and other behind the scenes alumni who adore this series and would have taken the care to actually get it right, rather than reimagine things that aren't broken.

I've been all over the place with how I feel about this new series. A part of me wants to really rally behind Discovery and love it. Though the other part has been growing in exasperation at the ignorant and thoughtless approach the studios and creative minds have had for this franchise. It may be that they are all passionate about making it the best version of itself, but to be honest, is it going to be the best version of Star Trek? So far I'm going to have to say no, as I've begun hearing a lot more negatives about it than positives from the likes of Doug Drexler, Robert Meyer Burnett and Jon Schnepp who all love Star Trek, grew up with Star Trek and know people who were involved in the production. It all kind of leads me to believe that Star Trek is really screwed up right now with no clear direction or leadership. I can't shake the feeling that this series is going to be a disaster for Star Trek on the whole. So maybe it should fail and maybe in order to save Star Trek, Star Trek needs to go away for a good amount of time and become legend, let it rest while it waits for someone who truly loves, grew up with and understands it to come along and do it right, I just don't think Discovery is going to be the series that restores Star Trek to its former 70's/80's/90's glory.

As much as Star Trek and Star Wars are different, they should both be treated with respect. One has been, the other has been completely butchered for it to resemble the other.

Actually the news that Todd McFarlane is going to be doing Star Trek should give fans something to be excited about, who have wanted a return to the quality and care that Art Asylum provided fans back in 2001. Besides NECA, I can't think of another toy company that is similar to what Art Asylum used to be than McFarlane Toys.

The only downside to this, of DST are done, is loosing the ships.