137 replies to this topic

[Whirlygig]

My only real problem with the movie is this:

 

Spoiler

Spock and his "holier than thou" attitude about the Prime Directive in the first scene, BUT his actions in trying to save the alien race from the volcano were, in fact, a violation of said Directive.

 

Anyone else catch that?

 

Spoiler

I look at this as one more time that Trek leaves the exact idea of the Prime Directive fairly unclear.  Does anyone really know what it is?  Personally I don't know why there would be a rule against saving a planet's sole intelligent species from extinction, as long as it's done without exposing them to technology or ideas they aren't ready for (so basically, done as covertly as possible).  The Prime Directive basically seems to change to suit whatever episode or film it is being referenced in, doesn't it?  I just looked it up on Memory-Alpha and saw:

 

"Helping a society escape a natural disaster known to the society"

 

Only in this film, the disaster is not known to the society.

[Gothneo]

Interesting article on box office mojo.

http://www.boxoffice...?id=3686&p=.htm

I didn't see any spoilers in it since its talking about box office numbers.

The thing that worries me is paramount put 190 million into Star Trek into darkness, which was 50 million more then the 2009 effort. However, it looks like they are expecting a return of right around 200 million, which is about 50 million less than the 2009. So basically it's a 100 million gap!

If they only make 10 million on it they may look at it as a failure.

Apparently the stats suggest that the previous effort did a better job reaching women and a younger audience (under 25).

I find this odd because I thought getting the younger crowd was exactly what JJ was going for...

[Qcjoe]

I really loved this movie. Very good mix of action and character development. 

 

The only thing that I did not like was the fact that Scotty could basically walk as free as he wanted to on the Vengance. That would not be very realistic.

 

BTW, I have been reading the IDW ongoing Comic and it was cool to see the interatction of Spotty and Keenser remain the same as it was in the comic. 

They cleared that up by saying that it was small crew or something to that effect.  That and the ship was so big.  I see your point though.

[VulcanFanatic]

Spoiler

I saw the movie today. It was interesting seeing a alternate Khan timeline from the one we are use to, but it seemed like there was way too much storyline missing to suit me. I hope when the bluray comes out there will be some deleted scenes that will help fill in the gap. This is similar to the 25 year gap between Neros first appearance and then reappearance 25 years later when prime Spock appears through the blackhole. JJ Abrams seems to like to take a script and tear out big chunks of pages and then hook page 1 onto page 15. The rehashing of Wrath of Khans Kirk/Spock radiation death scene was rediculous in my opinion because in this movie everyone knew that Kirk was going to survive, but back in 1982 it was well known that Spock would really die, a death that came after decades of service and friendship with Kirk, and it was a heart wrenching death. No one expected Spock to come back in the next movie. 

 

Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future in Star Trek was a vision of a society of people who had overcome the evils that imperil our race and world today, and had become a society that worked together for the common good of mankind and reached out to the stars to work with the other species in our galaxy. Star Trek has moved farther and farther away from that ideal. I dont think Gene Roddenberry would be very pleased with this movie. 

 

I have to say that it was a fun, thrilling ride of a movie, But i am not overly happy with it. I will add it to my collection, and i may see it again before it leaves the cinema, but as i have said before, JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are separate from the original timeline and have nothing in common except Leonard Nimoy. I will continue to think of them as separate, because this is not my Fathers Star Trek and its not my Star Trek. My Star Trek ended with Star Trek Nemesis.

[malloc64]

VulcanFanatic, which are your favorite and least favorite Star Trek movies?

[Alteran195]

Just saw it, thought it was fantastic. I enjoyed it more then the first one.

 

Spoiler

-The opening was amazing, the Enterprise rising out of the water and flying towards the volcano along with the music was amazing.

-I gotta say the people on Nibiru sure can draw with a stick incredibly well, I don't think I could have drawn the enterprise that well.

-The new warp effect is awesome, so much better then it was in the first movie

-Kirk losing command of the Enterprise really did seem pointless since he got it back pretty much right away

-I knew Pike was going to die, but I didn't expect it to be as soon as it was, it was a great scene and it did provide good motivation for Kirk

-If the Vengeance was supposed to be secret, why did Marcus have a model of it?

-I liked the new warp core

-Ive seen people complaining about Kronos being spelled Kronos, idk why I just thought it was a translation

-The D4 ship does look a lot better then the toy

-The new klingons were…interesting, They looked klingon enough but the ridge rings were kinda weird to me.

-Its so blatantly obvious Harrison was Khan when he killed everyone and got punched by Kirk over and over again, I knew going in it was Khan but this scene would have given it away to any Star Trek fan

-I say again, if the USS Vengeance is supposed to be a secret, why did they build in in earths solar system? in a giant construction bay

-How did no one notice scottys shuttle fly down from above and join the group of shuttles going to the Vengeance?

-The Vengeance catching up to the Enterprise so fast was really cool, the attack and knocking the Enterprise out of warp was just awesome

-The Vengence is the Excelsior, the size, transwarp drive, being sabotaged by scotty, it just isn't nearly as nice looking as Excelsior.

-I wasn't expecting Nimoy, even when spock was calling new vulcan I still wasn't expecting it

-The remake of the wrath of khan ending was..good, they could have done something different, but it worked, I liked it for the most part

-When Spock yelled Khan, I just laughed… It just didn't seem right

-Enterprise falling through the clouds and rising back up was a great scene

-The Vengeance just appearing out of nowhere and almost hitting the Enterprise while falling was also quite cool

-They could beam down to the moving vehicle, but not up? That doesn't make sense to me

-Even though the talked about Khans super blood earlier in the movie, I didn't catch on to it until right before Bones had the idea

-Kirks death wasn't nearly as impactful since he was revived right away, they could have thrown him in the cryotube and then used the next movie as a way to get him back. Idk if that would have been much better, but they could have kept him dead longer.

 

-Why did they have to rechristen the Enterprise? Because it was repaired? When have they ever done that before? I was expecting it to look different or something after they said that, a slight refit or something before its 5 year mission. 

 

[Whirlygig]

Spoiler

-Enterprise falling through the clouds and rising back up was a great scene

-They could beam down to the moving vehicle, but not up? That doesn't make sense to me

 

Spoiler

The cloud scene is one of those scenes where I felt like they took the opportunity to try and "correct" for past misdeeds.  When I saw a zillion burning thrusters on the underside of the saucer it felt like they were saying "here you go, chumps, this is how the ship can take off from the surface of the Earth after construction".  The way the shot lingered there you pretty much knew instantly that a triumphant rise was forthcoming.  Also seemed, to my recollection, reminiscent of the Titan shot in the first one.

 

There were a lot of transporter contrivances throughout.  Funny their short-range is so limited when somehow a tiny device can put a man on another planet in another system without error.

[VulcanFanatic]

VulcanFanatic, which are your favorite and least favorite Star Trek movies?

Spoiler

All of the movies from STTMP had there good and bad about them. I liked them all for different reasons. After STTMP didnt do as well as they thought, a TV producer, Harve Bennett, came in to liven it up, come up with more action, make the movies attractive to a wider audience. I think doing so compromised the integrity of TOS, although even TOS had some stinkers in the third season after Gene Roddenberry left. My favorite episodes involved exploration, not shoot em up, bang bang episodes. Roddenberry tried to show how we evolved after so much war and devastation of the past. 

 

I like them all, from STTMP to ST Nemesis, its hard to rate them now. I appreciate things from them all, and i have my problems with them all. I came to appreciate the 2009 movie as a separate timeline and dont really consider it the same universe. The new movie is really mostly action scenes and not many contemplative scenes. Pike said Kirk wasnt ready for the chair and he isnt. Thats why cadets in real life dont get promoted straight to Captain, because it takes a great deal of life experience to be ready for that position. It was irresponsible for Starfleet to put its newest ship and a large crew under the command of a virtual cadet. Kirk may be a genius, may have good instincts but does not have the experience to temper his judgement . He needs about 10 years in lower ranks before being ready to be Captain at a minimum.

                                                                                             

I left the theater feeling like JJ Abrams and his crew made a list of as many Star Trek moments from the past as they could come up with and spun a web of plot to hook them all together. Maybe in his way of thinking it was a nod to Star Trek, but i looked at it as rehashing older moments so they wouldnt have to sit down and write a script. Jeez, they even had an extra year and still couldnt come up with an original idea. 

 

Cumberbatch is a good actor, but doesnt look or sound a thing like someone named Khan Noonien Singh should in my opinion. Ricardo Montalban wasnt an Indian either, but he looked the part morso than Cumberbatch.

 

The Klingons looked awful. I hate them. I would rather see the TNG version, but the TOS version is better than Abrams version.

 

I think the prime directive being violated was a valid point that Spock raised. I dont think the Prime Directive forbids covertly saving a race by diverting a natural disaster, i just didnt think it should have been necessary to lower spock into the volcano, they should have been able to drop a device down the volcano that would activate at the right depth. Shouldnt have had to submerge the Enterprise. 

 

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but right now, my opinion is that Paramount, CBS and Abrams have gone into the Dairy business, they are Milking that Star Trek cow big time!

[BadBunnyMike]

 

Spoiler

The cloud scene is one of those scenes where I felt like they took the opportunity to try and "correct" for past misdeeds.  When I saw a zillion burning thrusters on the underside of the saucer it felt like they were saying "here you go, chumps, this is how the ship can take off from the surface of the Earth after construction".  The way the shot lingered there you pretty much knew instantly that a triumphant rise was forthcoming.  Also seemed, to my recollection, reminiscent of the Titan shot in the first one.

 

There were a lot of transporter contrivances throughout.  Funny their short-range is so limited when somehow a tiny device can put a man on another planet in another system without error.

 

That shot you mentioned looked exactly like the other shot you described in your spoiler to me as well, still a pretty cool one...not as good as the similiar shot in the begining of the movie....that one was EPIC and to coin Scotty "brought a tear to me eye" 

 

I went and saw it again tonight and I think i really like it. Cumby was just epic all the way around. One thing i forgot to mention about when i saw it last time was 

 

Spoiler

In the Klingon system, that half destroyed planet...I wonder if they were paying homage to Praxis, the Klingon moon? Eventhough timeline it wouldn't have happened yet but in this maybe it did happen already. But that was my first thought when i saw that...i was like OOOH PRAXIS!

[Wildcard]

Finally went and saw it Sunday night. I will say that I enjoyed this one more than the 2009 movie, AND I felt like this one also had more "heart" to it than the 2009. However I still feel like it's missing a Trek "soul". 

 

It was a a wonderful romp of an action/adventure SciFi movie. And there were TONS of little bones/snippets tossed for the enjoyment of the old guard fans. I would recommend seeing it to anyone. But it's still not a "Trek" movie to me. 

[Alteran195]

 

That shot you mentioned looked exactly like the other shot you described in your spoiler to me as well, still a pretty cool one...not as good as the similiar shot in the begining of the movie....that one was EPIC and to coin Scotty "brought a tear to me eye" 

 

I went and saw it again tonight and I think i really like it. Cumby was just epic all the way around. One thing i forgot to mention about when i saw it last time was 

 

Spoiler

In the Klingon system, that half destroyed planet...I wonder if they were paying homage to Praxis, the Klingon moon? Eventhough timeline it wouldn't have happened yet but in this maybe it did happen already. But that was my first thought when i saw that...i was like OOOH PRAXIS!

 

Spoiler

Ive read discussions of people saying the klingons ramped up production and possibly even went to war with the Romulans after the Narada destroyed 47 of their ships, which caused the destruction of praxis early.

Even if it wasn't the Romulans of this time, I don't think the klingons would take that to lightly.

[BadBunnyMike]

Spoiler

Ive read discussions of people saying the klingons ramped up production and possibly even went to war with the Romulans after the Narada destroyed 47 of their ships, which caused the destruction of praxis early.

Even if it wasn't the Romulans of this time, I don't think the klingons would take that to lightly.

 

That would make sense...but yeah i thought that was a homage they were paying with that. Looked pretty freakin cool. Gotta love little Easter Eggs like that, that not your average person would get. Only us Die Hard fans

[Gothneo]

Were coming into a 3 day (Memorial Day) Holiday weekend domestically, typically a hot movie will do about 50% of its opening gross, but hopefully with the extra day it will pull more in!

 

The current breakdown is

 

Theatrical Performance Domestic Box Office $103,773,288 International Box Office $80,500,000 Worldwide Box Office

$184,273,288

 

So, we should see another 40 to 50 mil domestically. That would get the box office gross above the production cost, which would be good.

 

From the descriptions, the analysts seem to think Fast & Furious 6 might actually take a bite out of Trek. I think it'll be interesting to see.

   

[Qcjoe]

The good news is The Hangover has gotten bad reviews.  Of course that didnt stop people from seeing the second one.  Also the comic book is picking right up after the movie.  The art is fantastic from the previews I saw.

[Whirlygig]

So, we should see another 40 to 50 mil domestically. That would get the box office gross above the production cost, which would be good. 

 

 

As a side note, the studio only gets 50% of the box office so to profit it needs to be at least 2x production/marketing costs.

[VulcanFanatic]

 

As a side note, the studio only gets 50% of the box office so to profit it needs to be at least 2x production/marketing costs.

I dont think that 50% take is necessarily accurate. I think the theater chain and studio negotiate the amount they each get and it depends on how many weeks it has played the amount the theater gets to keep. The Theater might not get to keep any of the box office receipts for the first week, or maybe 10 % or whatever the negotiated rate is. If the movie sticks around for 8 weeks, the theater may get 50 to 60%, but by then attendance has fallen off so much that the receipts are not that great. Thats why you pay $8 for popcorn and $6 for a beverage. The local Regal is giving away a free Ironman comic this weekend to people who see Ironman 3, and i am betting that by now their percentage of box office receipts is good if they can get anyone to see the movie again after it being out for weeks now.

 

                                                                                                                                      The thing here that i marvel at is why people care how much money a movie rakes in, like its the score in a ballgame. Everything seems to be a competition in the US.

[Gothneo]

Well, Its kind of important because if it can't make enough cash then the studio wont make more, I think people just naturally keep score in all kinds of things, not just sports. 

[Qcjoe]

I also cant help but think that the name "Into Darkness" didnt help grab peoples attention.  It was a weird name in my opinion.

[robster]

Yeah,I was in Raleigh,NC last weekend and got the Iron Man comic ticket thing when we went to see ST and IM3 on Saturday. Great fun! Love Raleigh. Went to the usual stores and just had a great weekend there again. Saw very little in the way of ST toys though,from the new movie,saw plenty of stuff from Trek in general though. NEAT!

 

J-R!